parenting our own teen DDs when we've been mothered by a PD

[all4peace]

Sidney had the great suggestion of starting another thread on this topic, as I was in danger of derailing another thread about it.

Lotusblume started a thread about engulfing mothers. Many of us are now mothers ourselves and struggle to know where the boundaries are between engulfing and neglect. I want to be a safe and secure attachment source for both my kids, and I also need to know how and when to let them go, or allow them to show and tell me how and when to let them go. Or... is that wrong? Maybe I'm supposed to know?

Is anyone interested in a conversation about knowing boundaries as parents when we ourselves were parented by mothers and fathers with PD traits? To know how to not overshoot in our efforts to not re-create the trauma of the past?

My DD gives me feedback that I'm too intrusive, but when I describe my boundaries to multiple peer mothers they think my space and privacy allowed her are actually far more than they have with their kids. It's hard to know where stable ground is sometimes, and obviously we each have different kids and personalities we're dealing with.

Where I've settled at is pretty basic--DH and I will ask DD where she is going and who she will be with. Any other details are hers to share or not. We have a curfew and we have basic rules regarding her phone--in the public space at night, used 2-3 hrs per day based on school and work. She has complete privacy with her mail, phone and room. I definitely ask her lots of questions about her life, and she she started getting angry about that I gave her language to respectfully set her boundaries. Rather than "None of your business!" she can choose something more along the lines of "I'm not comfortable sharing that." or "I don't want to talk about that." or whatever is polite. And I'm trying to learn to let her choose our communication type and frequency. At this stage in life I'm trying to learn to be more vague in my questions of her actually. When our kids were younger, rather than "How was your day?" I'd aim for more like "Can you tell me something that happened to you today?" Now instead of specific I'm actually trying for more vague (to give her more power over the interaction) like "Is there anything you'd like to talk about from today?"

I'd love ideas from parents who want to share!

[athene1399]

I'm a step mom. SD18's BM has BPD. I struggle with this because I am afraid BM tells SD we don't care about her, so i try to text her randomly to follow up on something she mentions the last time I saw her (since Oct she's been staying full time with mom). I think it shows her we listen when she talks and we feel what she says is important. SD has little self-confidence so I try to help her to be more independent. I praise her good choices or insightful-ness. When she thinks through a problem without just believing what everyone says, I praise that as well and tell her she should have her own opinions. I also tell her she doesn't have to always agree with my opinions.That we're allowed to have differing opinions and can still be friends.  I also try not to text too much. BM texts SD constantly. I try to give her space. It's like walking a tightrope sometimes. Trying not to smother, but let her know I care. Penny in the co-parenting group suggested just texting "Thinking of you " I think that's a great idea as well.

if we asked her how x went and she gives a brief response, we assume she doesn't want to talk about it so don't press the matter. We also try not to fuss over things. BM fusses a lot and really plays into SD's anxiety. She gets her worked up over small issues. We don't minimize the problem, but discuss a possible solution(s) with SD. I think some of it is being mindful about paying attention to her cues. We need to pick up on if she wants to talk about it or not. We also try to give her space and cultivate her independence. Give her what she needs to make her own decisions instead of telling her what to decide. Talk about similar problems in our lives and how we figure out a solution or how we handle stress. We let her have her boundaries where BM stomps on them. I also keep in mind what drove me crazy about M and try not to fall into the same pattern of behavior. She never listened. I make sure SD knows I listen and validate her feelings.

[Cat of the Canals]

I also need to know how and when to let them go, or allow them to show and tell me how and when to let them go. Or... is that wrong? Maybe I'm supposed to know?

It sounds to me like you're doing a pretty awesome job. And no, I don't think you're supposed to psychically just know their limits, because every kid is different.

I think the more important thing is what you're doing: giving them a voice in it. Encouraging them to have boundaries and respecting them.

And when they do want to talk? Let them talk and listen. Without judgment. My mom is a big fan of phrases like this: "But don't you think that X would be a much better option that Y?" And "You've never done XYZ, have you?" She tells me how she wants me to respond instead of allowing me a chance to be open with her. (And then she complains that we "aren't close.")

[Poison Ivy]

all4peace, I think you're setting reasonable expectations, and I think your daughter is responding in a way that many children normally do.  Is your daughter a teenager? Her response sounds very teenagerish. 

[doglady]

I have two teens, 18yo S and 16yo D. Parenting teens has its challenges and I often question my parenting skills due to my own disordered upbringing.
I’ve found it’s generally best to do the opposite of what my parents did and to also ask myself if this is what a reasonable person would do as a parent. My H and I also discuss things, and I check out parenting sites and ask my other friends with teens.

Some examples: I was shown absolutely no affection while growing up. In contrast, my FOC are comfortable showing affection via hugs, without overstepping each others’ needs.

No one told me they loved me throughout my childhood. We tell our kids we love them every day and they often say it to us unbidden (which, for me, is a miraculous thing to hear).

My mother insisted on me having long hair, not shaving my legs, wearing bizarre elastically-held up monstrous period pads, and dressing like Laura Ingalls Wilder. Needless to say, I’m more than happy my kids can dress and have their hair how they want and have been allowed to do so since they could dress themselves. Because, hello! It’s their bodies etc. Not mine. My mother always made me feel my body was hers somehow.

My mother intruded in every aspect of my life, turning up to swimming sports days to video everything and make me pose in front of sniggering students (and crying and raging to my enF if I wouldn’t let her), reading my letters, going through my bin, demanding to know (or rather telling me what horrible things) I was thinking etc etc. In contrast, I try to be there for my kids and ask them if they want to talk, and sometimes they do and sometimes they tell me to butt out. But I also know when to leave them alone. God forbid we should give kids some agency and privacy!

That said, I’m not anywhere near being a perfect parent (I also have a marked tendency to extreme self-criticism - I wonder why?    ) and my D in particular shows some of the emotionally dramatic qualities of my own uBPD/NPD/OCPD m. However, she IS a teen (as opposed to the perpetual 3yo my mother is) and she therefore gets my understanding, empathy and assistance when needed as opposed to the anger, dismissal and scapegoating I received at her age. Sometimes I lose patience but I try to stay calm.

To summarise, parenting is a huge job and we need to remember that we will get it wrong many times. BUT, the really important thing, in my view anyway, is to listen and learn and try to keep growing. I can always improve as a parent and a human being - something neither of my own parents ever felt they’ve needed to do, because they’re perfect already and always right about everything. 

Keep up the good work, all those (badly-parented) parents of teens out there. And seek help when needed. It’s doubly hard work when your own ‘teachers’ should’ve been fired from their jobs long ago.

[Sidney37]

Thanks for starting this!  Parenting can be so hard for me.  I also question my parenting skills due to my upbringing.  My DH also had a dysfunctional upbringing with a mother with undiagnosed Aspergers and definite OCPD tendencies.  While we are bright people, with years of education, the dysfunctional upbringing played a role and it took years for us to realize how dysfunctional our families really were.   We are now unwinding it and trying to make sure that we are being thoughtful about our parenting rather than relying on what we learned.

I have a teen and pre-teen and up until recently I had been taking parenting advice from my uPDm.  It was terrible advice and it was unfair to my FOC.  She disagreed with therapists, teachers, books, etc.   I was caught between doing what was in books, what I had learned from therapists, what I learned as a child and what I was hearing from my PDm constantly.  Even when she wasn't saying it out loud, I could hear her voice in my head telling me what I should have been doing instead of what I did.  It makes it hard to be a good parent when you don't know whose advice to take.

I've made mistakes.  I have fleas.  I used to react to things in ways that I learned from being raised by my uPDm.  But I know from years of therapy and asking each therapist I've seen to learn to deal with my PDm that I'm not a PD.  I'm just so afraid that my mistakes, my fleas, my use of my PDm's bad advice will lead my kids to end up thinking of me the same way I think of her. 

I do so many things that she didn't.  So that gives me hope.  I know that I apologize.  I tell them that I love them.  I hug them.  I tell them when I'd proud of them.  I make changes when I know that I make mistakes.  I tell them when I've made a mistake.  I try to accept blame and criticism, but it's very hard when my PDm criticized so much.  I try not to smother, but try not to be distant either.  But I've spent so many of their formative years anxious, angry and frustrated from the constant criticism I've been hearing for so many years from my mother.  I'm not a perfect mother.  It's hard.

My teen, too, has similar anxiety to my PDm and shows some PD characteristics.  But like Doglady says, she's still a teen.  But there are days that I'm terrified that I am raising my mother.  I'm concerned that it's genetic.  But I'm hopeful that we can prevent her from using the same terrible coping skills for anxiety that my PDm has. 

[all4peace]

I let this go unanswered for too long! I'm sorry about that.

To me it sounds like we all struggle to find middle ground and balance.

Poison Ivy, my daughter has a strong voice and so we're working with finding more respectful ways to say what she feels she needs to say. We're learning each other's boundaries and I'm trying to help her find the language to set boundaries with respect and kindness, with me and others. DH and I have defined the areas where we absolutely do need to know things (who she's with and what she's doing) and she's defining all the areas she doesn't want to share. Interestingly, when I have backed away from asking curious questions, she has stepped forward in sharing. I think she just needed to know it was up to her, and not up to me.

athene, I agree about giving them space as they head into adulthood.

doglady, I like that you're checking in with multiple sources, your mate, and your own gut checks!

cat, I appreciate what you say about each kid being different. Maybe that's why parenting is so challenging. We can't really just have hard-and-fast guidelines, because every kid is different! It sounds like we're all working to listen to our kids, but still be the parent. As for your M, ugh, I can understand why you wouldn't want to open your heart to her.

Sidney, my heart hurts for you. I can hear your self-doubt and know what it's like to beat myself up as a mother. I love that you can focus on what you're doing well and keep learning as you go. I read in the parenting book Safe House that we can really mess up a lot of the time (80%) and it's the repair that is crucial. I think when we've had abusive and neglectful childhoods we so desperately want it to be different this time, we have no guidelines to follow, and then we paralyze ourselves with doubt and fear and self-loathing when we think we're not doing it well enough. I know I do. Hugs to you, and here's to keeping on parenting as well as we can!

[athene1399]

Interestingly, when I have backed away from asking curious questions, she has stepped forward in sharing. I think she just needed to know it was up to her, and not up to me.

we've noticed this as well but in a different scenario. We were helping SD unpack her dorm. her BPDbm was ordering her where to put stuff, so SD basically told her she wouldn't listen and it was her room so she could put it where she wanted. SO (dad) opened a box and asked SD where she wanted what was in it, and she said "put it wherever you want." It kids of shows exactly what you said. When she was being ordered how to set up her room by BM, she didn't like it. But when SO gave her the choice, she didn't care where it went. Sometimes they just want to choose, even if it's as simple as "what do you want for dinner?" or bigger things: "what color do you want your bedroom?" A lot of us with PD parents didn't have a choice (or felt we didn't have one). Especially when boundaries are concerned.

[Pepin]

My mode of operation as a parent is to do what wasn't done for me -- and there is too much to list.  I think this has worked out well.  I have two teens that have mostly felt comfortable opening up to me.  I absolutely give them space to figure out things for themselves and I am not up in their business. 

I really try hard not to tell them what to do since I was always told what to do and how to be. 

I do not compare my teens to each other and never have.

As a result, they have figured out so much on their own and have definitely surpassed me in certain areas -- and I learn from them. 

They are highly intelligent academically which is something I never was -- probably because of all the mental baggage I was harboring.  I never brag about their achievements either.  They know they are extremely down to earth and where they stand with their classmates -- which only seems to make my teens focus more on themselves and their needs.  They know they are important, matter and can make a difference while they are alive. 

My teens and I talk a lot about behavior.  We discuss other family members and peers and the behaviors that are to be avoided and how.  As they grow into young adults, I hope that I have provided them the right foundation for them to be internally strong. 

Not taking sh*t from other people has been my greatest achievement with them -- something I was blocked from doing.  I was raised to be a doormat and that crushed a lot of dreams for me.  I have had to make up for this lost time from my past that many just never had to deal with.