How do you know if its a PD or just being difficult(and does it actually matter)

[Jorainbow]

I'll try keep this succinct!  History - me 50, 2 boys, raised them as single parent, graduate, happy in job, they are both happy and settled. Parents - dad the silent and blow up type then silent type - not demonstrative but since splitting with mum in their 60's much happier and we get along better after some open conversations. Mum - the fixer - placating, but also non communicative, refusal to acknowledge problems, not demonstrative. refuses to move on and help herself which I did try and help with (Fix?) but I cant so have stepped back and support. Childhood/teens not unhappy with some good memories but a feeling of being alone/not fitting in (sister same - we are very close)  History of anxiety but since a car accident, I've changed a lot to help and am now in a much better place - until things blow up. Husband - 48, from Easter Europe, family history of physical and verbal abuse, sister died whilst saving him from car on street (blame), grew up in harsh aggressive communist regime, but has turned things around and is now training to be a nurse. When we were dating we had an honest conversation (probably due to my cultural stereotypes) as I had been on my own a long time and am quite independent and also around money (having brought up my boys alone I do need to feel secure financially). Together 5.5 years married for 3.

Red flags ignored - lots of female friends (care industry) which wasn't an issue but seemed to be a lot of plate spinning and I should have made it clear I was his girlfriend so (example) if he had said he was coming for tea after work that didnt mean after drinks with colleagues (if he had let me know different matter - always little fibs and excuses).  Finances - assured me he had no debts - when he moved into my home and on the electoral role, £3000 of debt suddenly popped up. Pay day loans and past bills.  Affair with married woman/close friendship with another - pre our relationship so essentially not my business but questionable morals.  They were both very needy though (one a colleague with drink problem the other the daughter of a resident in the home) - something i didn't pick up on until later but have discussed in personal counselling.  Im trying to understand what I am dealing with to best move me forward.  I have had personal counselling and am aware of where I have contributed and am working very hard to build my confidence back. In our 5 years my husband cheated with a work colleague (early on and just before we married), caused a car accident out of anger which ended up with the car overturning (he grabbed the wheel).  I descended into 2 years of probable PTSD/anxiety and was in no place to get out of the marriage.  In that time when I was at my lowest, I found him on dating sites, another one night stand after I asked him to leave when he gave me a choice between him and my son when they were in a row - all of this has contributed to my anxiety and feeling stuck.  I now feel stronger than I have in a long time but this coincided with him going to counselling to work on himself and his overreacting and I guess I thought that as 95% of the time our relationship is positive and as it has taken him a lot to go for the counselling, I would continue building me up and see what happened. 

I have tried to understand him and his past (it took a while for him to acknowledge it may have something of a bearing on his reactionary behaviour) Unfortunately this weekend after an argument 80 miles from home, he chose to storm off instead of what we had agreed (give each other space and acknowledge this), and get a train home (at great expense), completely cut communication (again from counselling he knows I find this difficult) went out and got so drunk he couldn't remember anything from mid afternoon which unfortunately as we live in a small town was spend it dancing drunkenly and kissing another woman. He has since blamed me for it all (as usual) accused me of being a controller (yet he controlled the whole situation with his stonewalling) and gone off to work leaving me utterly confused and angry. I tried talking to him this morning, not using accusations but by asking him why he made the choices he had and what he thought the effect was on me and he simply couldn't answer and shifted the blame again (I'm guessing because he feels guilty?).  This is not the first time he has done this.  I have tried to understand where I may be bringing stuff into the relationship - questioning if I am critical ( personally I don't think asking someone to slow down as they are too close to a car is being critical).  I am now simply tired.  I cant fix him and whilst we have lots of great times its like living with someone bipolar he is so erratic and changeable. Last week he had a bad day at work and that was it he was leaving his nurse training and the job and going to work in a super market. It seems to me I cant do right for doing wrong, that the show has to be orchestrated to suit his needs and that whatever I say will be twisted back on to me? How do you deal with that? How do I stop the introspection and almost convincing myself I have the PD?  I guess I'm simply trying to understand but I think that may be the problem - I wont ever understand him.

[StayWithMe]

Go to counseling alone to figure out a life for yourself.

Your partner sounds passive-aggressive.  My exH was as well.   "Nuff said.

In any case, whatever label he may deserve, the bottom line is that he is being difficult with you.

[bloomie]

Hi and welcome to Out of the FOG. It seems like things have been seriously hard in this relationship for a good long time. You must be pretty tired of the confusion and acting out you are experiencing in relationship with your H.

One of our hero members says something like this about relationships that are great 95% of the time... if you are treated well 95% of the time and poorly 5% of the time you feel bad 100% of the time. (they say it more eloquently, but you get the idea)

To get you started here, take a good read through all of the info at the drop down menus above. The toolbox, Personality Traits (PD) info, and reading through the glossary will bring you to topics such as gaslighting that may be very eye opening and validating for you to read.

Read through the experiences and conversations that are taking place on those boards and see what other conclusions members in the community have come to in similar circumstances.

Keep doing the work with your therapist (T) that you are doing and keep coming back here for support and encouragement. It can be very disorienting and isolating to be in a relationship where there is so much manipulation, deception and betrayal.

Two really great resources that has been clarifying and freeing for me that I want to share with you are the work of Lundy Bancroft who is an expert in the area of domestic abuse and author. Here is an blog post that gives some great help: http://lundybancroft.com/five-central-concepts-in-getting-free-from-abuse/

And another concept to learn about that we can form something called trauma bonds and that can keep us muddled and close to someone who is betraying us and harming us: https://www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/trauma_bonding.html

I can only see a small snap shot of your relationship and can't know what is best for you, but the auto accident alone is a huge concern and red flag for your safety along with other experiences you describe. Please consider talking with a local domestic violence (DV) counselor just to run the things you are experiencing by someone who is an expert in assessing risk and finding a safe way forward.

Our links for potential emergency situations: https://outofthefog.website/emergency
Online DV chat and resource: https://www.thehotline.org

Sending strength and wisdom your way in your healing journey!

[Jorainbow]

Thank you both for replying. I've a lot more to read and a lot to learn but even reading the gaslighting article has been an oh wow moment for me. We are 48hrs from the incident and as he was at work today I've been able to look at some resources and have a good read  As I'm a little way into counselling I have started spotting where he manipulates certain situations but today I took a step back and directly asked him what his plans as far as leaving were and throughout the conversation I could see where I was asking for specifics he began to either block me, gaslight or try to change the direction. I felt a little like I could see him in a different light. He was totally incapable of answering me directly. It was actually an eye opener having even a little bit of knowledge. I was mindful not to keep the conversation going round in circles too which has been a part and I remained calm which threw him. One thing I need to accept is the word abuse. I think I've avoided accepting this so far as, incorrectly, I thought that was not what was happening. I'm so grateful for finding this site! I'll have to see if the UK has a similar phone/chat support but my focus now is on me and my counselling. Thanks again! E

[bloomie]

Thankful you were able to keep your cool and not go round and round when your direct questions are avoided. Here is a resource that may be of help to you: http://www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk

[Starboard Song]

You are going to be processing for a while: there is so much great nd important information. You asked whether a PD diagnosis exactly matters, and whether what you are seeing is a PD or just someone being difficult.

For my part, I'd encourage you to think of personality disorder diagnosis only as a helpful way of discussing the difficulty. PD diagnosis really amounts to being "too difficult, too often, in too many ways." All of us dispaly some of the PD characteristics to some degree some of the time. Thinking of PD diagnosis as a binary, like the way you really do either have ebola or not, risks mystifying it.

But the diagnostics is a great way to say, "oh, I know what you mean. You are dealing with that kind of person."

So much strength to you as you navigate this strange and twisted path.

[Jorainbow]

Thank you! Unless my H goes to a psychiatrist (and he would only be going there if referred by his GP or if he were sectioned) he wouldn't get such a diagnosis so I guess I'll be looking at where  he fits into certain behaviours. I know I've seen myself in some as you say to a degree! I am looking forward to learning more though in order to find my way through and out.

[1footouttadefog]

The diagnosis would help you know what to research and exactly what you are dealing with.....but not really.

It would lead you in the right direction sooner but not likely with the precision we would all hope at times like this.  Many people have more than one diagnosis, while others merwly have very ateong characteristics but would not be labled by some professionals as having any give personality disorder or other mental illness

I would focus on the behaviours you are dealing with more than the diagnosis.  They are after all the core of the issues most of the time.

You can talk about these with your therapist.

Also work on you for you, not just with saving the relationship in mind. A strong  healthier you is important, not just physically, but in all aspects.  If you decide to end the relstionship, being strong will benifit you.

Dont let him being in therapy make you feel obligated to continue.  Dont let it persuade you to trust more than you know you should. 
It sounds like the trust is pretty damaged a few hours in therapy does not easily change what damage has been done.

You will no what is right when the time comes stay or go, you will know.