Have you guys heard of "Echoism"?

[Dinah-sore]

I was reading some articles yesterday online and I came across this fascinating topic about "Echoism." And basically it relates back to the mythology of Narcissus and Echo, but DANG it felt so accurate.

"

Sarah lived in all-consuming fear of her mother. As she grew up, she learned to keep quiet and hide her own desires. Essentially, she didn't develop a sense of self. Sarah was an echoist.

Echoism has been popularized by psychologist Dr. Craig Malkin, whose 2015 book Rethinking Narcissism introduced many to the personality trait, although echoism was first coined in a 2005 paper by psychoanalyst Dean Davis. Echoism typically arises when someone is in a toxic relationship with a narcissist. The narcissist may be their partner, parent, or sibling. Highly sensitive, compassionate, and emotionally intelligent, echoists are extreme people-pleasers.

The concept of echoism is drawn from the Greek myth of Narcissus and Echo. Most have heard of the god who became entranced by his own reflection. The lesser-known story is that of Echo, the wood nymph who was cursed to near-silence and able only to repeat the last words she hears.

"Echo fell in love with Narcissus, but all she could do was echo what he said," says Malkin. "Like Echo, echoists tend to fall into these relationships with really narcissistic friends and partners, because they struggle to have a voice of their own. They become adept at echoing the needs and feelings of more narcissistic people."

It blows my mind because I have notices that specifically in the last year (and even more in the last six months) I have been QUESTIONING EVERYTHING that I used to believe and preach so loudly. I have seen many areas of my life where I have just echoed the opinions and stances of people that I have felt were in "authority" in my life. I guess too I accepted their opinions so easily because I doubted myself, "They are smarter than me, so I will just learn from what they think and believe what they tell me." Some of this has actually made me realize some mild cultic brainwashing when it comes to my religious views. I say mild cultic because while I allowed myself to be "Echo," it was also subtly reinforced by people in church leadership that you are not allowed to question--so it all went hand in hand. I was ripe to be led and I was in a social structure where you MUST be led.

I posted yesterday about how I actually feel guilt about changing, as far as it relates to my marriage. Like my husband should have kept the receipt on me because he didn't get what he paid for. I am not the same naive and passive girl he married. I think on my own now, but I am still not strong enough to assert myself fully (I think that might happen because I am changing so much). But I think that as I have worked on myself, learned to identify abuse, manipulation, and control techniques that I was able to see that much of my beliefs and choices were not mine, but others, and I adopted them to survive and connect and feel accepted and loved by those around me. Basically, I did this to survive. But now I see that it isn't the healthiest way for me to continue my life.

Has anyone else recovered from Echoism? I would love to see if there is anyone else who can identify with this? It also blows my mind how psychologically profound the mythology is. It gives me new appreciation for how the ancient cultures were able to connect these two patterns--narcissists and the effects on those around them.

Here is the URL to the full article:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yw7xyy/echoism-narcissist-abuse-condition-psychological

[Dinah-sore]

It also might be interesting to note that I have lately been having panic attacks anytime I socialize with people, but especially if I am honest and authentic. Is there a primal fear inside of me when I don't just echo? I had thought that it was part of C-PTSD emotional flashbacks. But it could be rooted in a survival instinct to echo.

[Whiteheron]

I almost replied to your other post - to the part about how you aren't the same person you were when you married your H. I wanted to tell you I don't think any of us are. We mature, we grow (most of us), life's circumstances change us, kids change us. Am I the same person stbx married 20 years ago? No. I was naive, in my early 20s and did exactly what stbx told me to, even if it went against my instincts. Am I the same person I was 5 years ago? Definitely not. Am I the same person I was 1 year ago? No. We all grow and change, it's part of being human. Your H can't expect you to be the exact same person he married.

I believe (in my completely unprofessional opinion) that you are having the panic attacks because you are acting in a way that's completely different for you. You are going directly against the behavior that kept you safe for so long. I believe the more you do it, the easier it will become. You will retrain your brain to realize it is safe to be your authentic self.

[athene1399]

I used to be an Echoist. I used to agree with everyone to not rock the boat. I started slow. If someone's opinion was different than mine, I would say "I can see why you like that, but I don't like it personally". Like politely rejecting what I didn't agree with. Now I have an easier time saying i don't like someone someone else does. There's a lot of things I don't have an opinion on, but I work on voicing mine if it differs from others. And I've learned no one yells at me for having a different opinion. Sometimes it leads to interesting conversation. At first it was scary to not agree. Now it's not so scary.

I also agree with WH, most people do change and grow and mature.

[Drawing_boundaries]

The Echo mythology is so saddening. Deep in my gut I feel it when ever I have encountered it... it never once occurred to me to link it to FOG or PD so thank you for doing so.
I have been in highly enmeshed friendships where my own strong opinions have been Echoed back to me (I am the scapegoat with a strong fight response). It has always taken me 'too long' to realise I have not found my best friend/soul mate etc but that these people are reflecting back to me what I want to see.
It is dizzying and puts me right out of place when I have finally realised this has happened. I am not angry at the person but more at myself for not seeing what is going on. It acts to reinforce my aloneness in the world and the deepest fear of mine that essentially I am unnecessary so why would anyone even bother investing their true selves into me when they can just echo back whatever I have said and be done with me.

[Wilderhearts]

I came across this article a while ago too.  This part really hit me:

"Malkin places echoism at the far end of the narcissistic spectrum he has developed: echoists have a fear of being needy, special, or selfish."  It's not unusual to abdicate my needs, self-esteem, or boundaries just so that I can assure myself I'm not being narcissistic. 

pwNPD also do something called "mirroring," where they mirror your emotions/compassion back to you, so that you think they're feeling and empathetic like you, but it's disingenuous.  They use this trick to convince us they're just as good as we are, at the same time using psychological abuse to convince us we are just as bad as they are.  I used to believe I was just as bad as my uNPDf and that I had to work tirelessly to control my harmful, abusive nature (because he was harmful and abusive by nature).  The "fear of being needy, special, or selfish" is an extension of this, for me.

I came Out of the FOG regarding pwPDs, but coming Out of the FOG about who I am and who I am not is a different struggle.  For me, it's involved (and still involves) identifying all those lies pwPDs have told me about who I am that I've internalized and comparing them to what I know to be true.

Jerry Wise (youtube) also talks about self-differentiation - echoism being the complete absence of self-differentiation.  His videos may prove helpful.