Co-Parenting Apps/ Tips for keeping control

[SandorS@DEyes]

Yesterday I had an exchange with my stbxw (uOCPD) via text about the proposed parenting time my lawyer received.  Essentially my ex was ok with the overnight schedule (I work a non-traditional schedule and can only do 7 overnights a month), but I initially asked for 2 additional days each week to see the kids.  My stbx knows I work a lot of unscheduled overtime and the reality is there could be weeks I couldn't make the 2 days, maybe not even 1 additional day.  She countered that with 2 additional days a month, which is less than the default parenting time the court proposes (1 extra day a week, so 4 days a month).  I was shocked and deeply hurt.  I texted her, honestly thinking there had been some kind of mistake in the language.  Maybe her lawyer had misunderstood her? 

Nope.  She fully intended on offering my less time than even the "status quo" suggests.  At that point it looked like we would be heading to court so I called my lawyer and asked for a reality check- I don't want to fight her just for the sake of it and if the court would agree with her anyway than there's no point in spending the time and money.  My lawyer was confident what I was asking for was very reasonable and that she was (surprise) not only being unreasonable but she had no justification for her proposal.  However, I still didn't want to go to court and so I texted her again, trying to get her to see how ridiculous she was being and asking her not to punish me for filing for divorce.  Eventually she said she was working with her lawyer on a new proposed schedule.  And then she starts in with the sob story- "I'm not trying to be mean, you left us, my world has been turned upside down, my heart is breaking, please think of the pain you're putting us all through".  And that just made my blood boil.  She is trying to hit me exactly where it hurts me most by proposing such an awful schedule, a schedule that not even the court would agree with.  And then she has the nerve to ask me to treat her like the wounded coming off the battle field? 

After this exchange I emailed my lawyer.  I already have low-contact stipulated in the paperwork but I just feel like I need a little more control in this arena.  Because I'm not like her I don't scramble to gain or maintain control over everything and so it makes it hard sometimes to see where I can or should be more aggressive.  My lawyer basically said the best option is to use a co-parenting app and that seems like a good solution.  So I'm just wondering what other people's experiences are in this area and if there are any tips anyone can give me.  My ex's OCPD has turned our children into her little accessories and she cannot handle being away from them at all.  She is convinced that she is the more important parent and that our daughters need her more than they need me.  She has all kinds of (lame) excuses why I shouldn't see them more often during the week but it all boils down to her losing control over them.  In some ways I feel like Batman when he talks about the Joker.  He's talking to Alfred and says something to the effect that he understands what he has to become to stop men like him (the Joker).  I know the "high road" doesn't work with her, and that if I show my belly or give her an inch she'll go in for the kill.  Until this thing is over I need to be vigilant and aggressive in ways I am not used to or aware of, and that feels sort of exhausting. I don't want to be mean, and I'm not trying to ruin her life.  I just need to protect myself and the kids and try my best to always be one step ahead of her shenanigans.  A small source of comfort is knowing that, while she has manipulated and played me for years she'll have a harder time doing that with a court.  Moreso if her requests are as ridiculous as this previous one.  I know if she's given enough rope she'll hang herself.

[athene1399]

I am sorry you are going through this, SandorS@DEyes. This sounds stressful.

I came into the picture with SO four years after he and his BPDwife separated. What has worked for him is keeping everything in texts or emails so there's a written record of what was said. It also helps us to feel less crazy when she gaslights us. Then he copies and pastes what she is denying she said. She usually responds with "that's not what I meant". She won't admit it, but it does help us to know we are remembering some of what she said correctly. Also, never text back if you are mad. Wait to calm down. It's easier to sort through the garbage when you are thinking clearly.

Also, keep communications to strictly facts. "The kids need to be picked up at x time per our agreement." If she responds with the sad sob story, ignore it. Only respond to what has to do with the kids.

Once a custody agreement is reached, I would recommend not deviating from it. SO's xw also couldn't bear to be apart from their child. He ended up being awarded custody so she made it her mission to alienate their daughter from him. There was a point in time when he tried to pick up SD for his night there was excuse after excuse. And the 'Every daughter just wants their mother..." Nope. Just becasue you are mom doesn't mean you know best or are the best caretaker for the kids. That would drive me insane. SD is now 18 and we still hear "What kid doesn't want their mom when their sick?" when SD isn't feeling well. 

If your L feels what you are asking for is reasonable, I would go for it. If you go to court, focus on the positive influence you have on your kids and how stable your life is (that stbxw may be lacking). SO's xw has little to no stability. I don't know how your ex is, but the kids generally do best with both parents being involved, so don't feel bad wanting your time with them.

No matter what you do or offer to stbxw, it will never be enough. I've also learned not to give SO's xw the benefit of the doubt. She always has an angle or a scheme. Maybe your stbx is not like this. IDK. Just the few times we gave in because of some sob story, we realized we were scammed by her and she was lying.

The last time we were in court SO's xw wanted custody so she could collect child support and financial aid to catch up on her bills.  It's always about her and never what is best for the kid. She used their daughter to manipulate SO.  And obviously we couldn't settle/reach a compromise outside of court becasue she wanted what she wanted. If your stbxw has a PD, compromises will be difficult IMO. SO's xw wouldn't agree to anything less than her having custody, so we went to trial.

I feel like I'm babbling now, but i hope some of this is helpful.

[Latchkey]

Hi SandorS@DEyes,
I know some people use Our Family Wizard  https://www.ourfamilywizard.com/ In some cases it is court-ordered. It is just an app though, it can be ignored or misused just like any other computer program so be careful in looking for tech solutions. A free option might be a google calendar or other free calendar that both of you can use if it is only about dates.

It sounds like there are other things going on here that I'm trying to clarify.
What I am reading is that you are asking for extra days that you may not be able to actually see the kids due to unscheduled overtime. If this is the case, I would not push it and would work within the days you are certain you have off. In this case, it is really about the kids stability. I have been parent/step parent of kids your D's age and changes in schedule are tough for everyone especially for school age kids and also if you have to cancel and the other parent ends up being at the pick-up they will bear the brunt of the child's anger if Dad is not there.

If you have to work overtime unexpectedly can someone in your family cover for you and watch the kids in a calm stable house and get them to school etc?

Maybe clarify a bit more what is going on and that would help with any insights.

Latchkey

[Stepping lightly]

Hi  SandorS@DEyes,

I think it's fair to anticipate that this is going to be a rough process, but keep your eye on the reason you are doing it!  Do you have a therapist?  It might be helpful to have someone that can give you perspective in the chaos.  DH found a therapist that specialized in PDs so he could get help navigating the situations with BM, I started going with him when it got really bad and it did indeed help immensley.  If nothing else, it helps you understand that the situation is crazy, you aren't!  If your stbxw is like most PDs, she will try and gaslight you into thinking maybe you are the one losing your mind!

I also agree with Athene on the communication.  Be careful what you communicate to stbxw.  Your example of texting her  is a good one, although innocent and just trying to figure out why she was doing what she was doing, she got your attention and she knows it now.  Don't let her see your reactions, or she will get positive reinforcement for doing hurtful things.  You will not gain understanding from a PD.   A lot of PDs strive to keep the non engaged, and will go to great and hurtful lengths to do so, we can't reward them with attention when they do it.

[Penny Lane]

Hi  SandorS@DEyes,
To answer your specific question, like Latchkey said Our Family Wizard seems to be the main app that people use. I'm not convinced that it's very helpful, although my husband's ex does use slightly less abusive language when writing messages on there. I'm not convinced it brings him $99/year (for each parent) more value than gmail's free tools.

I also want to address kind of the premise of your question, which is how can you get your ex to behave in a reasonable way. The answer, sadly, is that you can't. You can put all the communication limitations in the whole world into the court order. But if she wants to be abusive she will be abusive. And the really frustrating thing is that there's no real repercussions - even if you have the energy and money to keep going to court over violations, the judge is going to take them much less seriously than you'd like.

But that doesn't mean there's nothing you can do! You can set boundaries about how you communicate and what you respond to. I strongly suggest you let all court stuff go between the lawyers. Clearly there's no good that can come on your end from discussing it between yourselves.

In fact, most things probably don't need to be discussed between you and your ex. DH has had increasingly less contact with his ex as time goes on - nowadays he basically only communicates with her to give her information. ("Here is a form from school" or "I am not going to reimburse you for this expense" or "DS wants to sign up for X activity, if I don't hear an objection from you by Friday I will sign him up.") BIFF is a good model for this.

You should think through what topics you are willing to engage with her on. Things like, school, drop offs/pick ups, medical appointments - you probably need to talk to her about that. You probably DON'T need to respond to any allegations or threats. You never again have to talk about how she thinks you ruined the relationship. She'll probably move on to other manipulations, telling you that you're a bad father, that sort of thing - no need to respond to that either. No need to answer personal questions from her that have nothing to do with the kids. And so on. Like Stepping Lightly said, she will try to keep you engaged, but you want to be engaged as little as possible.

I think if you implement these strategies, you won't be in total control but you will be strategic about implementing control in the areas you have it. Someday you will read an email like the one she sent and you will say "huh" and put it right in the trash (or a folder in your email if you have to document).

I also want to piggyback on what Latchkey said: I would say that you shouldn't give up time that you're entitled to because of your work schedule right now. Who knows, in a year you might find a way to work way less, but then you're stuck with a schedule where you barely see the kids. But I don't think you want to leave the kids with your ex on your time either. I second the suggestion to see if you can make alternate child care arrangements during those times so you aren't relying on her. You don't want to get into the mindset where SHE is the parent and YOU see the kids occasionally, and it's an open question whether you are on-duty during your parenting time or not. You really want to assert the boundaries to care for the kids during your time, all the time, because if your boundaries are weak she will never stop trying to topple them and keep the kids with her all the time.

Good luck! You're at the very beginning of a very, very hard road, but there is happiness and peace at the end of it!

[Phoenix Rising]

Our Family Wizard is a good resource but keep in mind that there is a fee to use it. If you can get PD to use it, you may find that they clean up their written communication to you..  it's also good for keeping them out of your emails and other personal spaces online (if you can get them to use the app). Let the designated people deal with court stuff. You can't change PD or make them be normal or play nice. You can only set your own boundaries and actively enforce them.

In my experience, NPDex refused to use the app so I set a boundary that communication can only be through email. He harrased me often so I changed my number and did not give it out. The school, family doctor and community agencies communicated with us separately. Forms were signed by whoever had our child that week. I chose drop in activities so that it required no input or a type of situation where I would have to negotiate for NPDex to take our child the activity. Drop offs were done at the school. There was really nothing to communicate about other than possible changes in health status of which was just read and didn't require a reply.

Hang in there. It takes some time to get ourselves out of their drama and master the skills necessary to protect our children and ourselves as much as possible from PD antics.

[athene1399]

it's also good for keeping them out of your emails and other personal spaces online

This reminded me that some people on here set up an email account to use only when communicating with their ex. I know they had some problem getting the ex to use the new email account instead of their personal one, but you could always say "if you send emails to my personal account they won't be answered." Then only respond if she sends emails to the correct account.

But it's up to you how you think would work best.