Victim shaming

[blues_cruise]

Aaargh my god, it winds me up no end when the victim is blamed and shamed for no contact and the parent is automatically assumed to be well-meaning 'deep down' with no expectation of accountability for their actions. 

I read an article on 'Psychology Today' earlier in the week written by a 'psychotherapist' who apparently specialises in supporting parents who have become estranged from their adult children. The article details how long the parent can expect their adult child to choose to be estranged from them. Of course, you can see where this one goes.  The main bit of the article which ticked me off and showed the complete unprofessionalism and bias of the therapist was this part:

"Fortunately for you, it's common for people to be uncomfortable when others cut off their parents. These folks will often make your child feel judged as ungrateful or unfeeling, without your having to lift a finger."

I mean, huh?! That is seriously the advice that a psychotherapist is going on the record as giving to her clients?!

Having revisited the article today to see if other people have reacted to it, I see that the author has since toned it way down and re-worded the worst excerpts of victim shaming. A fair few people in the comments called her out on her lack of empathy and she's obviously been doing some editing to prevent further criticism.

The article is here if anyone is interested: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/constructive-wallowing/201908/how-long-does-parent-child-estrangement-usually-last If you're in a bad place or can very easily fall back into a bad place then be warned, it is triggering.

I don't think the first three factors she lists are particularly healthy enough reasons for an adult child to want to reconnect with a parent. It's particularly telling how she refers to the child as being a "harder case" if "he's particularly stubborn, independent, or apt to hold grudges." I find it hard to believe that anyone would choose no contact with a parent (or prolong it) due to holding "grudges". I can't help but wonder that if by focusing solely on the parents and their feelings within her career area she's completely losing sight of the picture as a whole. I've never had therapy but this would be my number one nightmare for me if I could afford it and felt brave enough: being paired with a therapist like this who completely invalidated the most difficult and heartbreaking decision of my life. 

[Groundhog Day]

I just read her revised version. It states:
Temperament; If your child is particularly soft-hearted or family-oriented, she's more likely to look for reasons to reconcile. If he's particularly stubborn, independent, or apt to hold grudges, he's a harder case.

Ok, so I'm family orientated, independent and stubborn. Stubborn enough to break a mother-daughter relationship without reasons? Nope.

And this is her version of Circumstances:
Busy young adults can easily put troubled relationships with parents on the back burner. They don't have extra time or energy to spend working through things with people who remind them of the past. They're naturally oriented towards the future⁠—new relationships, careers, living situations, opportunities, etc.
Even if they love you, building an independent life takes precedence for most healthy young people.

Now this one reminds me of my BPDm's first psychologist comments. How much extra time is needed after 2 hours phone calls day after day? Time and energy was taking a toll on me when I tried to "work" through her demands and toxic relationship. And on Fridays after 5pm having to deal with her suicide threats and accusations. " Have a great weekend! ". I do not beleive this author has any idea what "we" adult-child have tried, went out of our way, search ways to avoid NC, have endured, witnessed, accused of and so on. There is no way that I went NC with M because I'm holding a "grudge".

On a good note, I hope the comments written on her blog has made her realize that there are 2 sides to any story as she should know being a counselor and not to judge a book by it's cover.

[moglow]

I can't and wont read that article right now, maybe later. 'Preciate the warning, Blues. 


Too many people misinterpret "I cannot and will not do this to myself anymore" as silent treatment. A fine old stomp and schnort intended to hurt poor mummy and dads. They really have no clue how much and how long we've tried to have anything resembling a decent relationship, only to have it burned down around us time after time.

Parents are painted as doing the best they can (and honestly, in many cases this is true as well-some don't have it to give and know no better), with not even a nod that WE are doing our best with extremely difficult painful situations. Any indication that we need help, can't do it alone, or admission of the continuing abuse are met with "but they're your parents..." And we're guilt tripped over our obligations.

These folks will often make your child feel judged as ungrateful or unfeeling, without your having to lift a finger.

Because of course, we don't already feel that way and is what got us where we are in the first place. Color me ungrateful and unfeeling - I'll own it!

[TrueRefuge]

Interesting post! I completely agree; j read this article the other day and was astounded by how blasé this author was in how she thinks these adult children have come to such a difficult decision.

As if we have tried for years, put up with all the abuse, apologised for our own wrongdoings despite no attempts at reconciliation from our parents.... And she basically says if they're soft you'll get back in, if they're stubborn you've got a harder fight. It's the manipulation underlying her techniques and messages that gets to me... And I think all of us have a very well-trained manipulation detector.

All I can say is I hope she doesn't have children, and I also hope any adult child potential client has a keen enough sense to realise how distorted her views are.

In fact what she and these parents need to realise is that they've actually been shooting themselves in the foot all along: they've inadvertently empowered all of us with the strength, emotional intelligence and resilience to make such hard decisions and stick to them exactly because they left us to parent ourselves. If you choose not to parent and leave it to us our whole lives, you better be ready for the consequences

[Starboard Song]

This is amazing.

I get it when a support group on one side or the other is biased, but it seems obvious beyond saying that a trained expert should take their thumb off the scale, and judge cases with respect based on the merits.

Of course there are people who declare No Contact wrongly, as my own in-laws did to us. The fact that they declared NC didn't validate that decision. And when, ultimately, we acquiesced and formally declared the same (which, of course, they did not intend), that didn't make us right and above judgment.

Of course we tell the difference by looking at the details. And if detailed inquiry is inappropriate or uninvited, of course we respectfully reserve judgement.

I feel that splitting this out as if there is a clear directional arrow (the kids are always wrong / the parents are always wrong) is a significant error, whatever population patterns we may notice.


I did like this paragraph:

People don't estrange from parents on a whim, or just because someone else wants them to. If your child is willing to put distance between you, there's something there for you to understand.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

This just gives me further proof that you can get really messed up if you seek help from someone like this therapist. An uneducated, misinformed, and biased therapist can take someone honestly looking for help and send them to a place of utter ruin. I think this therapist is just working the angles that will make money off parents who willing buy into the dialog that they are "good" and the kid is "bad". There is no money to be made from parents who are told they have to change, they created the issues, or to do the work involved to heal their own wounds they projected onto their kid.   

[moglow]

There's also growth to be found in carefully vetting, interviewing if you will, potential professionals of any stamp. I know of few situations that are all good/all bad. Many many shades of gray come into every possible interaction, and we owe it to ourselves to pay attention.

If you choose not to parent and leave it to us our whole lives, you better be ready for the consequences

Yep. Some messages dig in deep after decades of reinforcement.

[Sidney37]

I've read that article and a forum for parents to get an idea of what my own are reading and hearing.  It is my concern about suggesting therapy to a NPD parent that they will find a therapist like this who tells them what an awful daughter I am. 

I agree with moglow that vetting therapists is a good idea.  I have had several therapists over the years because I have moved several times.  Several were fabulous and taught me how to set boundaries.  The one I had at my current location was great at helping DH and I communicate better about the PD issues and fleas that we both have from being raised in dysfunctional families.  BUT when my uNDPm walked out on us during a very stressful health issue, gave us the silent treatment and started a minor smear campaign, the therapist insisted that we do whatever it took to fix the relationship with her.  She believed in a theory that if there is a break in the family system that it will cause children (mine or those generations later) to become estranged for minor reasons.  By going NC or VLC I was setting my family up for estrangement in every generation after.     I still totally disagree, but my DH trusted her because she was a therapist  and it's what led me to worse issues with my NPDm and having to go NC now rather than several years ago. 

[moglow]

I'll probably be shot down for this but I honestly don't believe anyone has any right to choose sides in any situation like this, much less a therapist. Yes, they are there to support and help their patient, but they're not judge and jury and only see what we give them. Much like here, actually.

I see a therapist as a guidepost, hopefully to get me to a better place *with myself* whether mother is in the picture or not. Quite frankly my "favorite" therapists did exactly that - they didn't focus on mother and her stuff, but mine. My needs and wants and life and how to get there. Diagnosing and bashing mother honestly didn't help me - I needed help on moving past her and all the bullshit. I needed a teacher, not a mother.

[Starboard Song]

I'll probably be shot down for this but I honestly don't believe anyone has any right to choose sides in any situation like this,

Bingo!

[StayWithMe]

At one point, my mother said to me "I don't know what you do for a living; I don't know who your friends are; I don't know what you do all day."

I asked her "Do you want to know why?"  She said,no, she didn't.  So my mother knows when to retreat so that she remain ignorant of any information that should inform to behave better.

I wonder if this therapist takes that behavior into account?

[Just Jay]

This is just a little bunny trail.  My BPM has recently been texting me to try to get me to reconcile.

One of the many tactics is giving me her friend's opinion. Her friend is a therapist. He's also one of many men my mother slept with that caused my FOO to split. He was also married at the time. Yea......sooo, I really do not give a single toot what HE thinks about my life!!!!

Unfortunately, I think the profession is littered with very messed up people.

[StayWithMe]

The last therapist I went to was just a few years ago.  I said I would never go again and this therapist disappointed me enough to remind me why I had made that promise to myself.

If I were shopping for a therapist, I would want to know how does she see me (who pays him / her) as her advocate.  Far too often, they make claims about other people whom they don't even know quite often.  When I was living in hometown, my therapist had met my mother but he didn't know her.  but he would say "But your mother loves you.  You must remember that."

this attitude should not apply just to mothers.  If you have a problem with a neighbor, coworker, etc, your therapist should be your advocate looking at ways for you to improve you situation, not to do favors for other people on your dime.

[all4peace]

I used to read these kinds of blogs and parent estrangement forums in the wee hours when I was unable to sleep. Not good for the heart or soul, but I guess if you're strong enough it can at least let you know how others see this painful issue, from their point of view.

Family is very important to me and it took a near breakdown to finally step away from both sides. I wonder why people don't seem to get (especially a therapist!) how primal those bonds are and how much pain must be suffered before a child walks away.

blues cruise, if you want to read really good writing about the adult child's point of view, there's a blogger called Issendai who has done incredible surveying and analysis of these types of blogs, forums, articles.

[StayWithMe]

That site is very interesting.

[PeanutButter]

I wont read the article either. I use to look at these kind of article/forums regularly but decided it was keeping me in a dark emotional state. But I appreciate the subject of victim shaming being brought up. Its everywhere IME.
I was reminded of this issue just yesterday when reading something that mentioned the "'rejected parents' of  'estranged children' problem."
I feel this label can also be an attempt to shame victims too. Any thoughts?
At least in my case it would be textbook projection if uBPDm called herself a 'rejected parent' because i went no contact. SHE rejected me my entire life. She abused me emotionally, verbally, physically, and sexually as far back as I remember. She had no remorse. At the point that I went no contact to save myself, I was rejecting her continued abuse of me. Does that make her a so called 'rejected parent'? Only if you add the denial and delusion of twisted thinking. 

[Gaining Clarity]

I've been victim shamed because I went NC with my Nmom, Nsib and FMsib. I was ostracized after I gave up my life of nearly 25 years to help them because I hadn't cleared the lifestyle change with them first. What's more, after they smeared me to anyone and everyone inside and outside of the family, I had a lot of people turn their backs on me. People I had known my entire life. At first, it was devastating. But the irony is that all of these people who so readily believe FOO also have been smeared themselves by my FOO.  They just don't know it (FOO have smeared many of them directly to me).

I've had other acquaintances judge my decision as well. They can't fathom doing that because they have healthy loving relationships with their FOOs. Initially, I felt like I had to JADE a little.

Now, I realize that it doesn't matter what they think. If they want to judge and turn their backs on me, fine. It just gives me more time and energy to focus on my own health and well being and the people who stand by me regardless what society or anyone else thinks.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Right on, Peanut Butter. "Rejected" is a heck of a lot more loaded than "estranged." If someone is rejected there must be someone doing the rejecting. Estranged doesn't imply blame or initiative either way.

[PeanutButter]

Right on, Peanut Butter. "Rejected" is a heck of a lot more loaded than "estranged." If someone is rejected there must be someone doing the rejecting. Estranged doesn't imply blame or initiative either way.

Thanks call me Cordelia. I like the way you describe it as 'loaded'. It fits. I agree that its a way of assigning blame.
I also have had a few counselors over the years that totally didnt get it (abusive uBPDm) and wanted to turn my life story into a narrative that fit only what they were comfortable with.This one said "are you sure its not your dad you have problems with" and proceded to tell me about all her problems with her addicted father while praising her saintly mother.
My favorite Aunt (uBPDm younger sister) told me when I was a teen she would always be there to take up for me, no matter what, there was nothing I could do or say that would ever change that. Fast forward and after I went NC with my uBPDm she 'scolded' me like I was a misbehaving grade school child for not calling my mother. She was so concerned that my poor mother was so worried because I had not contacted her. I was SHOCKED that these words were coming out of her mouth in that tone.
That site by Issendai that all4peace recommends is insightful and validating. It helped to me to understand why I felt so awful when I read the stories on the estranged, rejected, & abandoned parents forums/blog.

[Kiki81]

I don't allow anyone to shame me or question me over the family relationships my Narents destroyed. What I think, what I feel, and what I do are no one's business or domain. I do not discuss my personal business with anyone other than the DH and 2 long term friends.

In short, I don't give anyone the impression that I want their opinion about my NC.

Three people tried. They're gone now too.