How do you know whether you need to go NC?

[gcj07a]

Please forgive me if there is another thread about this topic. I just couldn't find one.

My uBPM has been awful to me my whole life, but her recent attempts to split and manipulate my kids (4 and 3) has me thinking of ending contact. I am hesitant because of FOG and because I wonder if there is a less severe way to maintain the boundaries I have set with her. Any time I have raised this issue with her, she just becomes highly offended and stresses that she has no idea what I am talking about and that she would never have treated her parents this way. She has not respected my boundaries with the kids, but we also don't see her a ton. I'd love stories, experiences, and thoughts.

Thanks!

Gcj07a

[StayWithMe]

You don't have to NC.  You can do VLC and see if that improves the situation.

I went VLC because all those "open, honest" dialogues with my mother only made things worse.  Because I was so honest, she was able to use info against me.

I think it is a good idea to start early.  My maternal grandmother used to tease me for being fat.  My parents did nothing about claiming that she and any one else "meant nothing by it." I don't forgive my mother for neglecting that responsibility.

Just a couple of weeks ago, my sister was teasing me about wearing clothes that are always too large for me.  Well, go figure.

[MamaDryad]

We all draw the line in different places, depending on what we can live with, but hurting the kids is a common place to draw the line for good reason.

In terms of setting boundaries, I think past behavior is by far the best predictor of future behavior; if she knows you're seriously contemplating NC, there's a chance that she could say the right words for a little while, but the chance of her actually understanding and respecting your boundary long term see seems very slim based on what you've written here.

Whether that means NC or VLC depends, I think, on which would bring you more peace of mind. For me, when I've tried VLC with my uBPDM, she's taken up a huge amount of mental real estate and energy that I frankly can't spare as a parent of a small child. NC is hard and painful, but I'm not constantly agonizing over how to enforce boundaries with her and scrutinizing my child for signs that she's already damaged him the way she damaged me.

[TwentyTwenty]

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. As others have said, it's a very personal decision and you neee to know your limits and boundaries. I also have heard that some folks go NC for a period of time, the allow vlc afterwards to see if things improved.

Myself, I am nc for good, with no hope of reconciliation. 

In my personal case, I had to assess the damage being done to myself and FOC by my parents and sibling.

Does contact harm your ability to parent? Support your family? Concentrate on our work? Does it harm your & your family's happiness? Is it detrimental to your emotional well being?

Only you can answet these questions, and what you are or are not willing to tolerate.

I hope you find the peace & happens that you deserve!

[gcj07a]

Thanks everyone. I agree that past behavior is the best indication of future behavior. And she has explicitly violated my boundaries with relative impunity because the cost of confronting her is way harder than the cost of capitulating. About a year ago my wife and I made the decision that my uBPM was not to be alone with the kids. We've seen how she is willing to behave in front of us, much less behind our backs. Part of the concern is her addiction to narcotics on top of all of the other psychoactive drugs she is taking for her various (and about 50% manufactured) illnesses, including gabapentin, xanax, bupropion, and cymbalta. And a couple of days ago my non-BP Dad (who is a saint) informed me that she's also been using pot. So, on top of the crazy way she sees the world, her altered mental status is a huge concern. Anyhow, thanks for the feedback. I am having weekly appointments with my therapist at this point, so I intend to address a lot of this in session with him.

[Morocha2015]

For me the biggest piece was the way my children were spoken to. I thought she'd be different with her grandkids but it was exactly the same (the backhanded belittling). In addition to that, I realized all the stress she caused me and ways that I was holding myself back for fear of what she'd say or think. It felt really bad at first, but after several months I feel awesome! I know she'll never understand why I did it, but I'm able to live a full life that's my own.

[gcj07a]

Morocha2015, I think that is spot on. I really felt like it would be different with her grandkids, but that is not true for my kids or my sister's kids. I guess one of my hang-ups is that I keep feeling like I am overreacting, but that is probably just the years of emotional abuse and minimizing doing their thing.

[Morocha2015]

I second guessed myself a lot at first. Now that I've had some time away from it, I think back on what happened and can't believe how messed up it was! I'd never want by kids to go through that, so why did I feel like I had to? You matter, too. 

[scapegoat/caregiver]

Be very careful . do not let them alone with the kids
I have a NM / had a NF and GC Nsister
I had to let them babysit my son when he was about 8 .  I was extremely nervous...but I had no other choice on that particular day .
when I got him home he was crying....said he never wanted to see them again ...and that they were cruel
I asked what happened he told me they forced him to eat raw fish...made him sit at the table for 3 hours yelling at him....I could see them doing this to him...all 3 at once..they are like a pack of wolves when they are together.
I was so stupid back then....it makes me mad that I did not get on the phone and scream at all of them!!!  which I should have done
my son never was alone with any of them again, he is an adult now and still has that memory.

my daughter has some bad memories of my GCNsister.... who used to take her to get her nails done... again I should not have allowed it.
when my daughter came back she was angry and upset...apparently my sister told her some lies about me...it took some time to calm her down and talk to her rationally...both my children are adults now... neither one feel comfortable around their grandmother and neither one speak to my sister my NF is dead. they didn't like him much either.
if your parents were mean to you ...they WILL be mean to your children.

 

[MamaDryad]

if your parents were mean to you ...they WILL be mean to your children.

This. And the really insidious part is that they might not seem that way at first! A lot of PD parents and grandparents adore babies and small children... right up to the age (around 7 or 8, usually) where the kids a) are no longer little enough to get them lots of attention as parents/grandparents and b) start to have the linear memory, critical thinking skills, and life experience to call them on their lies and inconsistencies. That's when the mask slips.

[gcj07a]

Thanks for that. I have started to see it more as the kids get older. I have a nephew who is six and he gets the worst of it. Unfortunately, my en-Sis keeps minimizing and making excuses. I think my BIL sees much more clearly though.

[Call Me Cordelia]

if your parents were mean to you ...they WILL be mean to your children.

This. And the really insidious part is that they might not seem that way at first! A lot of PD parents and grandparents adore babies and small children... right up to the age (around 7 or 8, usually) where the kids a) are no longer little enough to get them lots of attention as parents/grandparents and b) start to have the linear memory, critical thinking skills, and life experience to call them on their lies and inconsistencies. That's when the mask slips.

This is true in my experience as well. That's when the devaluation and lack of interest in the grandchildren became glaringly obvious.

[Fortuna]

If she's not allowed alone with your kids and she still can't abide by boundaries you have set then you need to enact whatever consequences you've set. Which may be leaving early, seeing/calling less often or a period of NC.
Deciding when to go NC is personal and difficult. (haven't gotten there myself....yet) but when the person cannot deal with the boundaries you have put there for your own health and safety as well as your kids well being and shows no ability or effort to abide by the boundaries, you have to decide when does it become a safety issue or mental health issue if you remain in contact.