Medium chill against passive aggressive behavior

Started by PinkElephant, August 24, 2019, 05:10:39 PM

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PinkElephant

I've been looking through the toolbox and it seems it could be helpful- I joined this site in search of coping strategies and those might fit the bill.

One technique that Id been inadvertently been using is medium chill - I simply do not engage my BPD SIL under any condition beyond pleasantries.

This has stopped direct attacks at me as I don't give her anything to grab onto but truly the biggest problem our family has is her passive aggressiveness.

She'll sit in the middle of a room scowling during a party, walk into the other room while someone is talking, refuse to eat at family meals, text on her phone from the beginning to the end of a meal out and generally act coldly to everyone around her.

Eventually someone will  crack - ask her what's wrong and she'll snap back with "I'm fine!!!!"  Or "I'm not hungry!" Or simply storm off knowing her husband will chase after her.

It creates a tense environment whenever she's around and the rest of the family is unable to enjoy each other.

It's truly the ultimate wet blanket but without the entire family engaging in medium chill - what is a strategy to avoid letting this ruin my day?

The short answer, I know, is ignore it - but it feels like standing in a monsoon and pretending it's not raining.

The other side of her behavior is after an entire evening of unpleasantness and passive aggressive attacks she'll approach a person with a hug and an "I love you"

If the hug is rebuffed with a question of "then why have you been in such a mood all night?"

She'll use that to be the victim - "I tried to hug him and he wouldn't let me and you're calling ME the problem!!"

My medium chill response is to allow her to hug me, not return the I love you- give a light pat and wish her a safe drive home.

So - yes medium chill works but not if the entire room isn't on board.

Any ideas?

Poison Ivy

You can't control your SIL's behavior, and you can't control the behavior of the rest of the family, but you can decide for yourself that her and their behavior will not ruin your day. So keep up the medium chill, and remind yourself as often as necessary that the only behavior you control is your own.

Rose1

Since she's married it's far too late to put her in the naughty corner. I'm a firm believer in training kids but there comes a point where that ship has sailed.

However, boundaries do have their uses. They take us out of the mess, but as you've found out, they moderate the pd behaviour somewhat too. Basically she behaves badly because its tolerated and gets her what she wants.

As others have said you can't control the in laws either. But I wouldn't allow a hug after such behaviour. Its an attemot to rug sweep. If she complains its ok to say bad behaviour has consequences or won't be rewarded. And let the tantrum begin. You can leave. If she's not getting anything out of it you might be blessed with silent treat. If she's going to do that then so be it🙂

I wonder how long before her husband gets sick of chasing rhe toddler around?

Anyway, if you don't participate, she might ramp it up to start with but should settle down. Why should you tolerate behaviour you wouldn't tolerate from your kids? (Disclaimer: I'm finally coming to that viewpoint with my mother so its a work in progress)

Drawing_boundaries

I find this interesting - I am NC with my FOO but have PD and dysfunction all over my life that I am trying to untangle from and am realising that NC cuts me off from communities I do want some contact with.

Have you ever been expected to explain your Medium Chill to the inlaws?


PinkElephant

Quote from: Drawing_boundaries on August 25, 2019, 04:49:19 AM
Have you ever been expected to explain your Medium Chill to the inlaws?

The inlaws give me pep talks and thank me for tolerating SIL so the medium chill is likely seen as the actions of a guy that's trying to make the best of a bad situation and they appreciate it...

I will say though, and as rose pointed out - I am remiss in allowing her to hug and kiss me because that's really half of the entire technique.

If I do take that next step in a total rebuff of all affection I would imagine that the in laws would tell me that it hurts the entire family to reject SIL and to take one for the team and hug her no matter what she may have done.

They completely enable the behavior and as disruptive to everyone's happiness as she is, I will be the one singled out as being divisive if I don't (literally) embrace her when she snaps back into being pleasant.

I can relate to the feeling of not wanting to cut myself off from a community I enjoy so much but this same community of people I love will defend SILs abuse as the actions of a person who is "very emotional" so I take the good with the bad.

This whole thing is a work in progress and it's very helpful in managing my frustration to hear that other people in this community have similar stories to share.

Poison Ivy

I'm sorry that your family expects you to take things for the team. 

PinkElephant

Quote from: Rose1 on August 25, 2019, 02:14:19 AM

As others have said you can't control the in laws either. But I wouldn't allow a hug after such behaviour. Its an attemot to rug sweep. If she complains its ok to say bad behaviour has consequences or won't be rewarded. And let the tantrum begin.

I wonder how long before her husband gets sick of chasing rhe toddler around?


It's an odd dynamic - her husband is an extremely timid guy - if the waitress at the restaurant brings him out the wrong order he won't say a word. She'll immediately demand to see a manager on his behalf.

She is essentially his backbone and I suppose he's willing to put up with her abuse since she stands up to the world for him so he doesn't have to.

As to the hugging and kissing - it's expectation that in this family, everyone hugs and kisses on arrival and departure from a get together.

Rose, you are right about the hug I gave after she crashed my party - it was a mistake and I'm going to try really hard to resist next time that happens - in this case, when she has a tantrum I can clearly explain that 30 minutes ago she was forbidding her children to eat our food and complaining how much she hates our neighborhood.

Since I've started with the medium chill she has really curbed the direct attacks on me but it's still very unpleasant to be in the room while she attacks another member of the family.

If she spends the night berating my MIL and then goes to hug and kiss me goodnight, do I rebuff her on behalf of my MIL?

Yes, MIL should stand up for herself but this dynamic has always existed between her and SIL. I don't see a 60 year old woman suddenly addressing this behavior now that her child is 34.

What would you suggest I do with the standard goodbye hugs and kisses after a night of attacks on someone other than myself?

This is a tradition the entire family practices so by withholding, it's making a statement.


Rose1

It's ok to do things at your pace. some days you can, some you can't. Yes its intermittent reinforcement but the goal is to look at after yourself, not train the puppy. It will take longer but that's ok.
Some years ago I saw a video on how to avoid an unwanted hug. It was excellent and I should revisit myself. I'll see if I can find it

Rose1

https://youtu.be/KnLFSRjG2M8

This guy did a workshop. These are some highlights. I love the double handshake. Can't hug if your hands are in a grip 🙂 another site suggests letting peopke know you're not a hugger. Its not your thing. Might help with the in laws. A lot of people don't like hugs

SerenityCat

Quote from: PinkElephant on August 25, 2019, 10:48:33 AM
Quote from: Drawing_boundaries on August 25, 2019, 04:49:19 AM
Have you ever been expected to explain your Medium Chill to the inlaws?

The in-laws give me pep talks and thank me for tolerating SIL so the medium chill is likely seen as the actions of a guy that's trying to make the best of a bad situation and they appreciate it...


My own thoughts on this, and of course your mileage may vary  :) :

I kinda think the in-laws are being ridiculous. They are enabling her and then recruiting everyone else to do the same.

You are being heavily pressured to enable her also. https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/enabling

Boundaries are the answer https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/boundaries

She and in-laws may make a huge deal about you declining hugs. You still get to decline hugs. For any reason or no reason at all. By declining hugs you are not making a statement or doing anything intense to her. You simply have the right to do so. They are the only ones making a big deal.

In a way, they are insisting that you stand still for abuse.

That is wrong. That can be crazy making and exhausting.

You have the right to boundaries, including physical:

QuotePhysical boundaries - your most basic physical boundary is your skin, your body. From infancy one begins to understand where he or she ends and others begin. That we are individuals. Other examples of physical boundaries are your personal space and physical privacy. Who is allowed and not allowed to touch you and how? What do you wish or not wish in your physical space and what you consider private and personal?

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/boundaries

You don't even necessarily need to explain about your boundaries, you don't have to offer a reason or excuse, you can just state them and enforce them.

I'm in my 60s. If one of my adult children had an active personality disorder like this I'd be in therapy so as to take good care of myself. Also so that I would not fall into enabling and trying to get everyone around her to walk on eggshells.


PinkElephant

Quote from: Rose1 on August 25, 2019, 07:11:25 PM

This guy did a workshop. These are some highlights. I love the double handshake. Can't hug if your hands are in a grip 🙂 another site suggests letting peopke know you're not a hugger. Its not your thing. Might help with the in laws. A lot of people don't like hugs
[/quote/]

Double handshake needs a little dexterity but that's definitely a great technique (and a hilarious video)

Rose1


PinkElephant

#12
Thanks for the links and your thoughts - this site has some really great resources...

Yes the parents pressuring me to capitulate is ridiculous...As far as seeing a therapist about this - I do!

Dealing with SIL has been an ongoing topic w my shrink for the past 8 years (the entire time I’ve been with my wife)

I’ve gradually learned to practice what i can see is referred to as medium chill and feel pretty well insulated from direct attacks...the problem now are the indirect attacks.

When we first got engaged, I started spending a lot of time around my future in-laws - SIL had a problem with me for reasons I can’t remember.

SIL asked her parents to no longer invite me to their house - SILs parents stuck up for me and said that I was part of their life now and if she didn’t want to be around it that would be her choice.

SIL’s response was to tell them that as long as I was around they wouldn’t be seeing their grandchildren anymore.

This destroyed my MIL but my FIL stood strong assured MIL this would pass and sure enough after 2 weeks, SIL “lifted the ban”

This is the one example I can think of where the in laws have set any boundaries...it’s also an example of the extent SIL will go to get her way.

This has been an ongoing tactic, when my in-laws don’t bend to her will - she withholds their grandkids.

My in laws decided they would rather enable her than lose contact with their grandkids even if only temporarily.

They have recruited me to enable SIL as well because it’s simply easier than paying SILs price - SIL knows that her parents are the heads of the family and what they say goes - so if there’s an issue with anyone at all - even unconnected to my in laws - the tactic is to withhold grandkids until the in laws convince whoever she’s having a problem with to do whatever it is she wants.

This depth of manipulation is not something that I believe is reversible especially since SIL has demonstrated severe consequences.

My in laws “asked” me to please get SILs blessing before marrying my wife. They said, “we know it’s silly” but it will create a major problem for everyone involved if I don’t.

I agreed to do it and endured two hours of abuse and name calling until SIL tired herself out said it was obvious there was nothing she could do to stop me and feared for her sister’s safety. I can’t actually  remember the problem she had with me to begin with.

So the short version of this is that if I (or anyone else in the family) don’t “make nice” SIL will withhold her children until her parents crack and beg us to give into her demands.

How can I stand a chance setting boundaries with a person capable of such cruel behavior and in laws she has completely wrapped around her finger?














Drawing_boundaries

Thank you PinkElephant - I am learning that it only takes one PD to upset a community (or family as the case maybe) In this case I want to keep some contact with the community in question but the enablers and PD are there strong as always.

NC with FOO was a statement to save my life - this community doesn't hold that power and I am going to take courage and attempt MC. Seems you are managing a very difficult situation with enablers and MC. It is impressive. 

Rose1

Thats terrible. What a terrorist. Im not sure you can win that one. I think you can still avoid the hugs though. Some of these techniques look like you accidentally didnt see it coming.

The problem with this is manifold. Shes teaching her kids that abusive behaviour works, she goes straight to mega threat no matter what, she obviously knows what she is doing.  I can't see it ending well. MC and ignoring is probably your best bet. If you cave due to inlaw pressure it just advises them what it takes. It must be draining.

all4peace

PinkElephant--what a conundrum. I do think it is workable, though.

You don't need to give any reason for not wanting a hug. If you want to give a reason, then simply state you're not comfortable with one. No further explanation needed. Or physically step back and stick your hand out for a handshake instead. 

She's being manipulative and you don't have to comply. If she threatens to withhold the grandchildren, then she does. That's not your fault OR responsibility.

It only takes 1 person in this type of family system to start making changes, and that person will likely be you.

In the family I married into, uNBPDmil is that eggshells person. Everyone around her either ignores, takes breaks, complies or works as a FM to get other people to comply. People will do ANYthing to keep her happy, as nobody wants to deal with her when she gets unhappy.

It took a lot of fear-facing for DH and I to finally step out of the cycle and start facing our very intense fear over bucking that system, but we finally did. The cost to our own marriage and total lack of peace within our own home had already gotten too high before we finally started dealing with this system. We set boundaries, we repeated boundaries, we held our ground on boundaries. Eventually, we got to the point where we are now nearly entirely shunned from the family system. In the beginning this hurt worse than I could have imagined. Now I'm thankful. We have peace. Our marriage is being rebuilt and thriving. Our kids have healthy role models around them. Our relationships are with healthy, peaceful, good people, and when we occasionally run into someone who is obviously not healthy it stands out like a sore thumb.

So to me it's a matter of what you and your wife choose, what is most important to you.

Rose1

All4peace, that is so encouraging. My experience is more with passive aggressiveness and I think the continual drama of this behaviour would be soul destroying if you let it. In reality you would never really know which infringement caused the latest withdrawal of grandchildren since the trigger is more the pd behaviour or state of mind than the non. Mega eggshell moments continually.

candy

PinkElephant, wow, I admire the patience you are showing towards your ILs and their enabling behavior of your SIL. And also wow you are walking this path with your wife.

It is difficult for the spouses who come into an dysfunctional IL family to watch the dysfunction and find our own ways to cope. On the other hand it is the benefit of the ,,outsider" to have an unblurry vision and to point out to our spouses that this is not healthy behavior.

I read your other posts and like to ask (if I am allowed to): will the baby the shower has been for be your first? Or do you and your wife have older kids already?

Either case can be a good starting point for you and your wife to (re-)define your boundaries as individuals, a couple and as parents.

For us, my DH and I, having a child and limit the PD's impact on our parenting, has been crucial.

Basically we had to adjust and define strong boundaries because we agreed that that the lesson we want to teach our kids cannot and won't be: the spoilt one (adult or child) gets all the attention, the one who behaves badly gets his way. No! Your SIL acting out may probably not be an example you would want your child to witness or follow.

With my ILs is has been easier for DH to set boundaries and oppose them for the sake of our child than it would have been for ,,just" him and me. And the same applies to me and calling my PD parent out on his behavior.

From what I read your wife's parents seem to have an idea of what they are doing, that they enable. They may think it's for the greater good but still they sense it. They also seem to care for children. Maybe you can appeal to their honor of good grandparents and state that your child(ren), your wife and you are your top priority, not SIL who is an adult? Put children first.

The withholding of grandchildren? That is abusive in more than one way. And yet, as all4peace pointed out, it is not your responsibility. It is SIL's choice and giving in is the ILs' choice, let them own their choices. You or anyone cannot ,,make" another person do anything.

In my family and in the IL family it is one respectively two of the parents but the dynamic is similiar: everyone complies to prevent the PD lashing out. And yet we, like you, only have had a 50:50 chance for them to behave themselves. When we repeatedly stated and enforced our boundaries, chances went up to
100% escalation :blowup:
As I have read here this seems to be a common pattern.

The only thing we can control is how often we attend family gatherings. So we adjusted our level of contact.

It sounds like you are acting mature and healthy within an unhealthy family. It can be so exhausting, but you're doing the right thing with medium chill. I think MC is a way to hold our energy with us, not let it drain. I wish you may have good people with whom you can recharge your energy.

PinkElephant

Wow thank you all for the support, insight and suggestions....

With the hugging I think I have to pick my battles - if she is misbehaved then I'm going to stand strong (at least that's what I'm telling myself right now)...if she is on good behavior and I rebuff a hug I'm going to be vilified because "she's trying" and now I'm the one being cold.

I recognize that there are compromises I need to make and I can live with insincere hugs if she's on good behavior.

Hugging after she directly attacks me  is unhealthy for me and enforces a feeling of helplessness that I already have personal issues with (that have existed before I even met her)

I need to remind myself that by allowing her to insult then hug me I'm also allowing myself to unravel progress I've made in therapy.

To answer your question, this is our first child - I am extremely excited to be a dad and already feeling over protective 

I've discussed, and my wife agrees that we are setting a boundary now - if she misbehaves in front of our child we are OUT - 9/10 family gatherings are at the in laws house (where she basically lives) and we get together 2-3 times a month.

If she has a tantrum, abuses anyone directly or raises her voice we will not allow our child to be exposed to it - we would NEVER withhold our grandchild from her parents but they will have to choose between having us or SIL at their house if the behavior starts.

The parents are fully aware that SIL is BPD, they actually bought my wife the walking on eggshells book. They've repeatedly begged SIL to get help but the answer is always that It's the rest of the family that needs help.

SIL is very clever in that she's figured out exactly how far she can push it before there are consequences. She walks as close to the edge as possible and only very occasionally falls off...

I don't know why she feels the need stir up fear but what I'm learning about BPD is that there's not a logic or reason to her behavior and that proposing a logical reasonable solution is a waste of breath.

The one time SIL got violent with my wife is the one time the family united and went NC with her until she saw a therapist...

(SIL threw a bday party for their mother and my wife invited a friend that SIL doesn't like without running it by her)

That's all it took to trigger truly disgusting verbal abuse - when my wife stood up to the name calling and told her that her friend is still coming - SIL knocked her to the floor and began to rain blows until her own husband pulled her off.

The therapy didn't do much good since SIL was only doing it to get back into good graces and stopped going immediately after re acceptance into the fold.

She hasn't been physically violent since (that was 6 years ago) so that's a little progress.

I'm hopeful that if we stick to our boundary of immediate exit with the baby as soon as SIL begins a tantrum, the in laws will threaten NC - SIL weakness is her family, she cannot go a day without seeing her mother (even if it's just to fight with her) so the only truly effective tactic I've seen is active NC





all4peace

I'd add one cautionary comment.

In this thread, your SIL has been described as withholding the grandchildren as a manipulation technique, to refuse to be held responsible for her own poor behavior. Many of us have described that as abusive.

You say you would "NEVER" withhold the grandchildren from their grandparents (when you have your child). I think it would be helpful to not get too rigid or black-and-white on this one, especially in the context of all you've described. You have a volatile SIL who spends a lot of time with family, you have multiple family events per month, and almost all of them happen at your IL's house, a place in which your ILs are very reluctant to insist on appropriate behavior from your SIL. Please don't paint yourself into a corner.

In my opinion, good parents keep their kids safe, period. If your ILs are safe and trustworthy with your children in regard to SIL, that will be wonderful. And if they're not, please allow yourself the options that keep your child safe and don't back yourself into a corner in which you see yourself as "one of those who withhold the grandchildren" if that is what actually becomes necessary.

It sounds like you've already made good plans for allowing family relationships AND making sure everyone is safe, so I don't think my cautionary comments will be necessary but just wanted to throw this out there for all who struggle with these kinds of dynamics.