Moving back in together - Wanting a written agreement before

[boundaryhunter]

Hello.  My wife(narc & bpd) and I are moving back in together.  We have two amazing young children.  Her mother, who also is the source of my wife's PD and is narc & bpd used to live with us.  For about 17 years.  My wife is the youngest of 6.  My wife is enmeshed with her mother and is the hero child of the family.  My wife and I are both attorneys, but I no longer practice.  I dont want to detail our entire story at the moment, but I want to highlight our situation.  My wife has filed two divorces.  The first divorce was a reaction to my leaving the house.  I was unhappy my wife insisted our children go to a Sunday school where views neither my wife nor I shared were taught.  It was to please her mother, although she will never admit that.  I capitulated when my wife offered to only send our children every other week.  Subsequently, my wife looked deeper into the views she her mother was indoctrinating and our children into and decided on her own to not allow my mother in law to take them.  The second divorce she filed was after her mother told me to leave the house - my house.  That was the bridge to far for me.  I asked her to attend counseling and send her mother to stay with a sister while we worked things out.  She refused, moved out and filed the 2nd divorce.  However, I didn't capitulate and her divorce was dismissed for want/lack of prosecution (she didn't do anything other than file so her case was dismissed).  We have been attending counseling.  She got her mother a separate house on housing!  It feels like progress.  My wife is moving back in and we will stay in separate rooms.  I realize she is PD'd and getting along will never be easy.  Like many, we are moving back in together for the children and to conserve resources.  Does anyone know of any WRITTEN COHABITATON agreements or forms that might help me establish good house rules? 

[SerenityCat]

Welcome!

I hope that you remember to take really good care of yourself as you move through these challenges.

I don't know of any written cohabitation agreement forms. In your situation I would probably do some googling and see what it is out there. I do see some ideas for people who are not married, maybe that can be adapted for your situation.

You might want to try brainstorming ideas first. Maybe there is a need for several agreements? House rules/chores. Child care agreement. Agreement that mother in law never move back in. Agreement about how to de-escalate stress (no yelling, take a walk to cool down etc.). Agreement to continue counseling.

Counselors may have ideas on what agreements to try. Also on how to keep them simple and not too overwhelming.

Good luck to you and family. It's wonderful to hear that your wife got her mother separate housing!

[boundaryhunter]

Thank you. 

[Poison Ivy]

Lawyer (me) to lawyer (you):  1) Do you want the agreement to be legally enforceable? 2) If yes, have you looked at your jurisdiction's laws? 3) Whether yes or no (to the legally enforceable question), what are you most concerned about (e.g., finances, parenting, maintaining physical space and boundaries for you and your wife, communication)?

Good luck.  I hope you can protect yourself emotionally and financially and keep life good for your children.

[boundaryhunter]

I'm not concerned with legal enforceability.  I just want clear boundaries we can both refer to.  We plan on staying in different bedrooms.  We have even considered buying a duplex.  I love the woman very much, but I've learned how much I appreciate being alone since we have been separated.  My deal breaker is counseling.  My spouse has been attending voluntarily and it helps.  On a side note, I find that many in the legal profession demonstrate personality disorders.

[capybara]

If possible, I would have these meetings with a couples therapist experienced in PDs or a mediator experienced with PDs. Then document the agreements as you address different issues. I have found with BPDH that it can be very helpful when the couples therapist responds to him with "that's not what she said, what she said is...." It makes the conversations much more productive.

You said you don't want a legally enforceable document, which I understand. But down the road, if the agreement isn't working, what do you want to do with it? How will she respond if you point out that her behaviour is not in accordance with the agreement?

[StayWithMe]

Duplex would be a good idea. I've known couple of multi generational households. They seem to work well.

[Penny Lane]

Hi boundaryhunter and welcome to the forums! I'm glad you found us and it sounds like you've made some good progress in obtaining those boundaries.

When I first read this I was thinking you wanted basically like a divorce decree/parenting plan except for a marriage. But now it sounds like you want more like written house rules for everyone to follow, am I understanding that right?

I'm not sure I've ever come across boilerplate language for what you're looking for. It seems to me that these are really personal decisions and they would vary greatly between families and couples. Basically I think in a lot of ways you're going to have to make the model for yourselves.

Have you come to any agreements in counseling? A good first step would be to write those down.

My experience is my husband has a PD ex wife and they have two kids. To me, having a decree/parenting plan should be very comforting because there is a set of rules that have been agreed to and that govern everything they do. But the problem is, she simply doesn't take the rules seriously and there is really no recourse. Basically she toes the lines so that if he ever went back to court for contempt that he would have a difficult time proving the violation. But she has no respect for the rules just because they're ordered by a judge or she agrees to them. So having things written down ends up not being all that helpful - especially when one party just refuses to follow the rules, and there's no way to make them do so.

So I guess my question would be, what is the benefit of this document you're thinking of? Do you think your wife would even follow these rules? Or is it more like, would it help YOU to see these agreements written down, for if she starts violating them again? Would it help to (instead of or also) make yourself a list of rules aka boundaries about what you're willing to do, with or without your wife's buy-in? There's no wrong answers here, I just think that thinking through the purpose would help you figure out how to proceed.

I really hope things work out for your family as best as possible. I recommend looking through the toolbox and the resources at the top of the page - there's some strategies there that I could help make this process smoother for you.

[Poison Ivy]

I think Penny Lane's response is especially helpful, especially this:  "what is the benefit of this document you're thinking of? Do you think your wife would even follow these rules? Or is it more like, would it help YOU to see these agreements written down, for if she starts violating them again? Would it help to (instead of or also) make yourself a list of rules aka boundaries about what you're willing to do, with or without your wife's buy-in? There's no wrong answers here, I just think that thinking through the purpose would help you figure out how to proceed."

[boundaryhunter]

Thank you all for your well thought out responses.  Our therapist gave me this recommendation.  I do think it is likely more for myself than her.   I agree we should do this in therapy with our counselor.  My biggest walk away point is that she must attend counseling.  The consequence at this point is that she can stay with her mother now that her mother has an apartment on housing.  An efficiency.  And her mother (npd and bpd) will not be so tolerant when my wife is staying in her home.  I'm actually thinking if she stops attending counseling, I can change the locks during the day while she is at work.  I have the two divorce decrees and I could show the police the written agreement and explain to them when she calls (because she will definitely call them) that she can stay with her mother and I have no other place to go.  Its not a perfect plan, but its a way to attempt to force a boundary.  I've found her bearable when she attends counseling, but like all things, she is definitely going to game it.

[Poison Ivy]

I would not expect a dismissed divorce action to have any legal effect with the police.  And think twice about changing the locks; all co-owners must consent to actions such as this. 

[Penny Lane]

Yeah I would ditto what Poison Ivy says. I get why you would want to change the locks - really I do! - but you're going to end up looking like the aggressor. And if you end up moving toward a divorce that could have serious repercussions. The sad fact is that many people on these boards have learned that sometimes you do have to live with your soon to be ex even after you initiate a separation. Are there other ways you could enforce that boundary without harming your legal options, long-term? If you are saying that's your walk-away point, does that mean you would file for divorce at that point?

[1footouttadefog]

Perhaps start with a divide and conquer type of thing.  Split the home into two complete living quarters, divide the bills, etc.  Then over time as you agree on more merge things away from the center point.