Confrontations

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you for the update, Whiteheron.  It sounds like the GAL is doing what she is supposed to (representing your children's interests). 

[athene1399]

I agree with Poison Ivy. It does sound like the GAL knows exactly what is going on. While it is a scary situation, I'm glad she understands it. I hope the kids are able to be on the same schedule with less time (or supervised only) with stbx.

[Whiteheron]

Kids are with me until the court date next week. They're having mixed feelings. Happy, relieved, yet anxious because of stbx's potential (and likely) reaction to them talking to the GAL.

I told DD she was ok to say "you're not allowed to talk to me about this" and walk away. Knowing her, she'll have a few more words to say to him. She's of the mind that this is stbx's own fault. If he hadn't acted the way he did, none of this would have happened. So he can try to blame the kids all he wants to. She's not buying it.

DS is a bit more sensitive and is worried his dad will blame him for all of this.

I'm just so glad some of stbx's behaviors are finally out in the open for all to see. It's not just me screaming into the wind...

[hhaw]

How scary, WH.

If I had all those frightening years to do over again, I wish I'd have found a good Trauma T with Buddhist leanings, for me and the kids.

We all woiuld have benefited miles from it, and likely avoided oldest dd's visits to Wilderness Camp, and Therapeutic Boarding School.  Youngest dd is having troubles now.  The trauma takes up residence in our bones, and bodies.

At some point, it demands to be dealt with.   Sooner is better than later, IME.

Good luck,

[Whiteheron]

A lot of fear and anxiety in the kids. DS's T is very concerned about him. Fear of the inevitable confrontation by stbx.

I'm hearing the word 'narcissist' being tossed about by different professionals when referring to him. Today my L said it and also said "I'm sure he loves the kids, or at least he thinks he does..." So it appears people are finally understanding what he is and what his limitations are.

I am still avoiding using the narc word to describe him. Even though I firmly believe that's what he is...well, the PD version at the very least.

[Associate of Daniel]

Whiteheron, I'm so sorry you're all going through this.  It makes me feel sick to the stomache. You must be feeling even worse.

Can you remind me of how old your children are?

I'm struck by your daughter's clarity especially, and am wondering at what age I might hope that my ds12 will be able to see the same about his uNPD father and uNPD smum.

He is going to be living with them from next year, after living with me all of his life.

He's either going to get  a big shock or drink the coolaid and abandon me.

AOD

[Stepping lightly]

WH,

I would imagine DS's anxiety is valid regarding the inevitable future encounter.  Since you have the attention of the T and the GAL, I am sure you will ensure this is addressed.  Maybe they can suggest only supervised visits going forward so that DS will be protected?

[Whiteheron]

DS is 15 and DD is 12. They saw what was going on long before they said anything to me. I know DD has learned a lot from DS. I'm not sure how long it would have taken her on her own.

It would be my guess your DS knows or at least has an inkling something is off. My kids were afraid to say anything to me at first, and they were (are) terrified of stbx, so they played nice and acted the way he wanted them to - including doing/saying things they didn't believe just to keep the peace.

Supervised visits were strongly recommended by DS's T. Things are happening behind the scenes. I have no idea what's going on, tbh. Just hoping for a peaceful weekend with the kids.

I've already seen stbx's vehicle in a part of town he doesn't frequent, but knows I do (at that particular time)...hoping it was just a fluke.

[hhaw]

Supervised visitation is what's necessary when the PD can't be appropriate during visitation.  Some absolutely cannot.

Do some research, WH, and know what your options are, just in case supervised visitation is on the table.

There are facilities, and people who can drive the children to their father's home, then be present during all interaction.  There's different levels of supervision. 

Sometimes you can rope a poor family member or friend into the sitatuation, but they have to be someone the PD can't control or intimidate or snow... and they have to know it's a burdenl, and an ongoing commitment so the person should be dependable, and calm, and in it for the long haul, bc they love the kids, and understand why the supervision is necessary.

Perhaps a list of viable options, to share the burden, if you're going with supervision by a friend or family member. 

Think through the best possible situation you could ask for should the Judge give you anything you ask for, kwim?  If it's allowing the PD to visit the kids in your home, or having little outings with someone else along.... just think it through.  There won't likely be any great solutions, IME.  The PDs will come up with reasons to resist it, and, in our case, they refused all visitation if they couldn't drag the kids behind closed doors, in privacy, and poison them at will, with two exceptions when they attempted to set up the paperwork, and visits while allowing too little time to complete the paper work, in both cases.  It was sad, and they kept pushing to get the kids anyway, throwing out names of people to supervise that absolutely didn't havef the kids' best interests in mind, and wouldn't have supervised in any way.  I had to say NO, over and over again, bc they refused to go through the proper steps, and do what they needed to do, which was their way of saying they wouldn't comply, under any circumstances, which was about what I expected, truth be told.

What they did do was keep dragging me back into court, asking for whatever they could throw up... custody, visitation... the last case was a custody case after they lost visitation rights.  That was the doorway into asking for visitation again, bc there was a change in the law, that didn't have anything to do with out situation,btw. 

My point is..... try to SEE down the road, and help your Judge bullet proof the Order, so you aren't getting dragged back into court again and again if you can help it.  An attorney will know more about that than I do. Some simply say "You can't lock the courthouse doors" but some look down that road, see what's possible, then try to cut off the PDs where they can with the way the Order's written, IME. 

And remember, you can go back and ask the Judge to make changes AFTER the Order's been written.  Do it once time, and make it count. 

I hope the old Judge handles this situation, and cuts the PD off so he can't scare your children any more.

Good luck,

[Penny Lane]

This all sounds promising. I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds like it's about to come to an end and have a good outcome - I really hope it does. I'm so glad your ex had his meltdown right before the agreement was entered rather than right after.

[athene1399]

I hope the kids start feeling better soon. If the T thinks supervised visitation is a good idea, hopefully they will consider allowing it to be put in the order. After all that happened with the confrontation, I think it's a good idea to ask for it. I would think after everything the GAL would be on board with this as well. I hope this is all resolved soon. Court in itself can be so stressful. You and your kids deserve a break from the craziness.

[Whiteheron]

Second court date has been rescheduled. stbx's L is going off on a rant about how a 15 year old (almost 16) can't be in charge of saying what's best for himself and tried to blame the entire problem on DS. Good thing I had emailed my L ahead of time and let her know that stbx was going to start blaming DS and me (apparently I'm complicit in whatever issue stbx had concocted). Judge does not agree with stbx and his L's spin on things. I have full custody for now.

stbx is already trying to guilt and manipulate DD. The games never stop. Trying to teach DD to do what she really wants, not what someone's guilted her into doing.

[Penny Lane]

I have full custody for now.

This is great! You have done such a tremendous amount of work for your kids, just moved heaven and earth to get them into a safe situation. I'm so, so impressed and also happy that you're getting a good result. But I know how taxing it can be -- how are you feeling?

Also, it sounds like DD still has to see him? So the full custody just applies to DS?

[athene1399]

I am so sorry stbx is trying to manipulate DD. But I am glad you have full custody for now. Thank goodness the judge could see through their spin on things. How ridiculous...blaming DS. 

[hhaw]

Here's what I think.... I think Judges, and court clerks, and law clerks all talk, and that first Judge UNDERSTANDS the situation, IMO... from what I've read.

I suspect the PD will continue to make choices that help the court SEE what he is,  particularly as he feels he's losing control, IME.

It's all fine and good as long as his attorney is filling his head with what they're going to do, but when the harsh light of that courtroom shines on the PD and his evidence, that's where you'll really start to feel relief, and the PD will start to come truly unraveled. 

Sometimes I've had to look at the PD unravel from between my fingers in court, and force my hands from my face.   It's not comfortable. It's hard to watch,  IME. 

Just have that list of things you want and need handy, bc your Judge might just give you everything you ask for.

I'm certainly praying for it.

[Whiteheron]

So an update:

Visitation and therapy between DS and stbx has been ordered by the judge. Visitation with no overnights for now. One dinner a week and two day visits every other weekend to start, with the overall goal of returning to the original custody schedule.

I told the kids about the visits last night and DS has already started having nightmares and anxiety. DD doesn't want to go and told me today that there is no way stbx will not discuss any of this with DS. She firmly believes that the first chance stbx gets, he will confront DS again. She says "that's just who he is." I did tell her that I thought her dad would be ok for a little while, because other people will be watching to see how it goes. She doesn't believe me. I haven't told DS about the therapy yet.

I keep asking my L if we can get someone to monitor stbx's mental health - not so I can go after him for being unstable, but because a healthy, mentally balanced stbx will be better for everyone, especially the kids. I feel like no one cares about this - all they care about is forcing an unhealthy relationship between the kids and their dad, just because he is their dad.

[Penny Lane]

 

Even a victory isn't really a victory, with a PD. I'm sorry, my heart aches for your poor son. He did the right thing, you did the right thing and the system is still putting him in an impossible situation with an abuser.

Is your DD going to follow the same schedule as DS, or is she on the same schedule as before?

[Arkhangelsk]

I am rooting for the GAL to succeed in getting these points to the judge!

[Whiteheron]

penny - right now they are on the same schedule. she's refusing to go unless DS is with her. They will keep an eye on how visitation goes. Problem is, if stbx has scared DS into not saying anything...no one will know if DS is still being mistreated.

ark-GAL has the judge's ear. for now. my L reported back that the judge is getting very angry and frustrated, she's never seen him like this before. stbx's L keeps chugging along insisting there is no problem with his client...still insisting on 50/50 custody.

[Penny Lane]

This is a very scary time and I hope that it stabilizes into something the kids can live with and thrive under. I do think it's a really good sign that the judge is so frustrated with your ex.