[Whatthehey]

I am not sure where to post this - or if it has been posted already - so please move or delete it as the moderator sees fit.

As a cradle Catholic and daughter of a Deacon, I assumed for many years that marriage meant just taking it in terms of abuse.  It doesn't.  The Catholic does not condone staying in a marriage for any reason that involves abuse.

http://www.catholicsforfamilypeace.org/uploads/9/7/5/4/9754767/what_the_catholic_church_teaches_about_domestic_violence.pdf

I hope this helps.

[Bloomie]

Hi there. This is a great article and very reassuring. I am not catholic, but found this in particular sound, practical truth: "Violence and abuse, not divorce, break up a marriage. The abuser has already broken the marriage covenant through his or her abusive behavior."

I hope it is okay that we moved this over here to the religious discussions. Thank you for sharing this.

[1footouttadefog]

I will pass this source on to others who it might help.

[Whatthehey]

Thank you!  I hope it provides some solace.

[Danden]

"Violence and abuse, not divorce, break up a marriage. The abuser has already broken the marriage covenant through his or her abusive behavior."

I agree.  I think this idea also applies to parents and children, another sacred bond.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Catholic nerd hat on: I have a bit of a quibble with the idea that the marriage covenant is broken by abuse. I do fully agree with the statement that nobody is ever obliged to stay with an abuser.

However, the marriage covenant is formed at the wedding itself. You are promising to love and honor your spouse all the days of your life. If you do not actually intend to do so, if you are psychologically incapable of doing that, if you have no clue what love actually means and you think it means control and abuse and putting yourself first and the spouse exists to serve YOU, even if you hid it well, those vows mean squat and you are incapable of actually being married. So there is in fact no marriage covenant made, because God knows if there’s the capacity there or not. It would be the same as a wedding of two children. They might say the words and think they mean them, but it could never be a real marriage.

Falling short of those vows is only human. I haven’t been a perfect wife on that loving and honoring forever clause. But I believe both of us undertook the marriage in good faith.

This is what the annulment process is for. To determine if there ever was a real marriage there. Most of the time there is not. In cases of abuse, it’s usually an open and shut thing. An abusive person doesn’t suddenly become that way after the wedding. There was a problem there all along.

[Lauren17]

Thank you, whatthehey for posting this.
Cordelia, I appreciate your thoughtful response.
My mom made a comment the other day about uBPD MIL not “respecting her marriage vows” in terms of treatment of her sick husband.   That prompted me along this train of thought, PD is a mental illness, so as I’m emotionally detaching from uPDBh does that mean I’m not respecting the “in sickness” part of my vows? Cordelia’s comments have shed new light on this.
My trouble with the document is that is talks about “violence and abuse”. This leads me to believe that they are discussing physical abuse, not emotional abuse.  I’m frustrated that emotional abuse is often ignored.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Glad my reply was helpful.

It’s evident they were trying to fit a ton of information into a single page. A tall order. Emotional abuse is not specifically named, but verbal and psychological violence are which would probably fit.

Now that I read it again, near the bottom, “Abuse is based on an erroneous set of beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors, all of which can be changed.” Hmmm. Well that’s not most people’s experience on this board... and kind of implies that abusive marriages can be saved. And asking God for guidance is all well and good but falls a bit flat, especially since they’re addressing perpetrators and victims. Maybe they are trying to be loving and hopeful to all. I doubt any abuser is going to read this document inserted in
the parish bulletin and recognize themselves, though. I personally struggle with the “love your enemies” part of the Gospel! I’m more apt to quote the one about better a millstone around your neck than to lead a little one to sin when I think of abusive people I’ve known. 

[11JB68]

I am neither Catholic nor particularly religious, but I came across something recently about st Rita, who apparently is sort of a patron saint of difficult marriages. I sort of latched onto that image...is anyone else familiar with this?

[Call Me Cordelia]

https://www.catholicsingles.com/blog/st-rita-of-cascia-an-excellent-intercessor-for-troubled-love-lives/

Wow quite a story! The saints can see what’s happening in the world and will pray for us when we ask them to, just like our friends on earth. We need other human beings, and the saints are friends who have been where we are and made it through.

[SandorS@DEyes]

@ Cordelia,

  This is one of the reasons I reverted strongly back to the Catholic Faith- everything is so reasonable!  There is SO much misinformation out there about what marriage and annulments are and involve.  People rarely see how deeply merciful and compassionate the Church's view on marriage is.  I mean let's say you married someone like Ted Bundy- is a loving, righteous God going to say, "Tough break kid but you're in it for the long haul."  Of course not!

  I had my marriage convalidated a few years ago and am looking forward to going through the annulment process.  I know it will bring up a lot of painful memories but everyone I know who has received one has said how much healing it brought them, and even helped them keep or strengthen their faith.  Like most Catholic things annulment is actually a GIFT from the Church; its only been so misunderstood that most people (laity included, unfortunately) really have no idea what its about.  And of course there are always horror stories like "my so-and-so had to pay $3,000 directly to their priest for an annulment".   

Glad to meet a fellow Catholic nerd!

[1footouttadefog]

Detaching from an abusive partner.  So sure they have a dianosis but is it sickness or choice that they abuse you.  Do they act normal when people they respect are around.  Do they pass as normal or cordial, likable to friends and co workers. 

If so it's a choice.

How could it be they have a sickness that is engineered just for you.  Is a virus programming them with information to abuse you, a bacteria.  Or did they inherit an imprint of those they torment and I atinctualky find them.

I dont think so.  They can turn this stuff in and off

[Lauren17]

The only diagnosis in my situation is the one I’ve made.

You do make a good point, that they can make things seem fine to the outside world, but the invalidation, belittlement and ST is saved for me.

I think that’s why the reading from the church says abuse is based on beliefs/behaviors that can be changed. I do think that’s possible, just not at all probable.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make 1foot. So sorry if my reply is off base. But what I think you are responding to is the idea that a person with a PD is incapable of making true vows.

I agree that many people with PD know exactly what they are doing and that’s provable by the way the higher-functioning ones cover their tracks. Saying love and cherish while having no intention of doing so is, that is, lying, is also a foolproof way of having an invalid marriage.

[1footouttadefog]

I think that in the day by day actions they take, they have a choice for the most part.

Additionally I believe a great many of people are fraudulent  when taking marriage vows.