struggles from partners of those who are dealing with a PD abusive ex

[inLovebutTired]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to reach out to those who are currently, or have been, in a relationship with someone who has to deal with a PD abusive exes. I would like to share my experience and to hear back feedback, from anyone who would like to listen.

I have been in a relationship for two years and a half with a man I love most deeply, who is dealing with PD exW who was physically and emotionally abusive to him, and emotionally abusive to the children (who unfortunately live with her for the time being). When I met him he was extremely depressed and inclined to suicide; managed to find strength to put an end to the marriage and went through custody battle and all that follows. The outcome of the custody was out in January, but nothing much has changed since then with regard to coparenting (a lot has changed since he initiated divorce process two years ago. It was a rebirth). She constantly attacks him verbally, writing the most disgusting emails (sometimes 3 per day), makes it impossible for him to see the children, lies about him, and all the alike. He is facing all this with dignity and via legal means, to ensure that his position is protected as best as it can be. But he is hurting too, and as his partner, I find it more and more difficult to deal with the anger, the hate, and the distress that comes from seeing him hurt. As a consequence, I feel a poor companion, I am unable to meet his needs: I am being supportive and encouraging, but always with this constant negativity that mars everything that I say. I find myself always prepared to expect the worse, a sense of anxiety always present ever during periods when things actually are well and judges rule in his favor. Because of the alienation she caused, preventing the children from seeing him for more than one months in spite of a legal agreement that establishes his time with the children, he will now go back to court.  It seems an endless process, and I find myself running out of energy to be the partner I used to be and want to be for him. Feelings inside me push and battle continuously.

thank you for listening.

[athene1399]

Hello, inLove. I am sorry you are going through this. It is very emotionally draining. First and foremost, you and your partner's emotional well being is most important. Get into therapy if you have to, create a support network of who to talk to if you need to vent or ask for advice, and schedule a break from it all and do self-care. I went back on antidepressants while we were in court. Find what works, and make sure you stay healthy. Same for your partner.

I still have anxiety when SO's phone chimes. BPDxw used to send a lot of nasty-grams, especially while we were in court. Whenever his phone goes off I always have anxiety that it may be her bringing up something ridiculous or hurtful. With the verbal attacks you are experiencing, set aside a time of day to read them so you don't have to deal with it all day long. Also, if there's no good reason to respond, then don't. Like if the whole email is a verbal attack, then don't respond. He can even say ,"If you continue to send messages like this I will block you" and then block if it continues. You don't have to read that.

In court, work with the L on what evidence is important to prove your case. I found some of what we thought mattered, didn't. I only have experience with a custody case and it sounds like maybe he's filing a motion to show contempt of court (is that the phrase?)? Unfortunately, there's no good way to make the ex follow the court agreement. IME they have their own set of rules.

The best thing you can do is show unconditional love to the kids. If PD xw is saying bad things, you can't dispute it. Just lead by example (behave how you'd want the kdis to learn to behave) and ask questions so they start thinking about what they are saying. Like if PD xw is saying dad is mean and the kids say this to him ,you can ask "Have you seen dad be mean? can you give an example? What does "being 'mean'" mean to you?" and then go from there. Usually the answer is "i don't know. he just is" in the case of alienation, but at the very least you get them thinking about it.

You also have to come to terms with the fact that the PDxw will not go away. She will be a thorn in your side until the kids age out, and probably even longer. There will be phases where things are good for a while, but it may not last. I wish you luck with court. And do not hesitate to reach out to us no matter how small the issue seems. Between all of us, someone will respond.

[Arkhangelsk]

Oh, InLove, I am so sorry.

I am the bio mama with the abusive ex, but I will share some things that helped my fiancé immensely.  He definitely would understand everything you have said here.  Because of that we:
- Started counseling with a trauma -informed couples counselor;
- Created a standard for our interactions with my ex - what is our goal and how do we stay focused on it, no matter what sort of novel issues he raises.  (We set one, and modified it when a significant change in circumstances occurred);
- Removed my fiancé from the day-to-day.  Get a stupid email?  No need to talk about it together.  I answer it, according to our goals.  We made a list of things that my fiancé would really need to know or weigh in on and then I set forth to do my battles.  He badly needed the break.  He was too anxious about it and needed the space.  And it got easier for me, because he promised he would not second guess my decisions;
- Came up with a list of positive parenting things my fiancé can do.  So, instead of his energy going into helping me deal with my ex, it goes into things like the daily morning notes he drafts for each kid.

Many hugs.  This is hard, hard work.

[inLovebutTired]

thanks a lot to both for the kind words. it also helps a lot, as does the context of this forum in general, where I can talk without having to explain myself –as it forcibly happens with my friends who have a vague sense of the situation. it feels so good to talk and being understood - I really am grateful to Out of the FOG.

I hasten to add that we do many of the things you suggested, and the situation is not constantly bad as I make it sound. Things have improved immensely since he decided to end it and there are periods where we do not talk about it simply because there is no need too. Emails started going directly to L's lawyers, some at least, so that also helps. My previous post is a reflection of what I am trying to get to, namely how easy it is for me to slide along the negative side and forget all the good, the love, and support that is in fact there. It makes me feel horrible when I realize that I am not conveying properly the entire picture, and focus only on the worrying side. On the other hand, the news that there will be more time court made me go back to a state of mind where if I am on the phone with him and I hear the sound of an email coming through, my brain starts racing. I feel I am sitting on the edge of the chair, ready to jump in case I have to catch him.

The other thing I find frustrating is how much work he, and by extension we, put into this, and in the end what mattered was that PDxw was the mother. The judge did not address any of the other evidence (violence, verbal abuses, schooling situation, etc.), set an agreement so loose that co-parenting requires frequent contact, clearly without understanding the situation in the slightest, nor trying to. So yes, the idea is to go back to court and get it all typed up without any sign of ambiguity, so that interaction goes close to zero. That is the goal, for the time being. But the fear is also that doing our best will not necessarily give results if the next judge is similar to the previous one.

We have talked about all this and more, but it also makes L feel guilty and responsible for bringing this mess into my life, and I feel guilty twice as much for causing him to believe so. Even now, I feel I wouldn't want anyone else's mess. I know that at the beginning I was the strong, independent support that he needed. But really the feeling is that energies have gone and I cannot recharge. It does not hit us frequently really, but when it does, we need time to recover. My impression is that the time for recovery gets longer and longer; but it might be just an impression.

Arkhangelsk, I am really glad you and your partner have made it work, and that you escaped the previous relationship. I have to ask: what where the things that your fiancé did and helped most? I find it hard to grasp the sense of helping, although L constantly reassures me that my presence is already a lot. I wish I could do more. Listening better. Talking in a more appropriate way. Sometimes I try to fight alongside with L by talking strategy, but if he is a bit shaken by the situation, he takes it as me thinking he is not doing the right thing. I am currently out of the country, I relocated for one year, which helps and does not at the same time. I am thinking to fly back to spend some time together, and close the gap for a little while. And being together helps our emotional and mental health.

[Penny Lane]

Hi inLovebutTired,
I really feel your username! I'm in the same boat although a few years further into the relationship - we just got married, actually.

My biggest suggestion would be to get really clear in your own mind on what is "your stuff" and what is "his stuff," and set boundaries accordingly. The toolbox and resources at the top of the page might help. I also really like a book called "Don't Alienate the Kids!" by Bill Eddy. Each chapter has a section for what family and friends can do and there's a whole chapter devoted to that as well.

The stress can consume you. Don't let it. I would second every one of Arkhangelsk's suggestions. Get on the same page, bigger-picture, about how he should handle it. Even if that means, you think he's generally doing the right thing and you don't really need to weigh in! And then try to pull yourself out of it as much as possible.

I would say YES to a visit, YES to spending more of your time together focusing on other things.

Basically, take care of yourself first. To the extent that you can help your significant other, you need to be in a good place mentally. And that is so, so hard when you're dealing with the anxiety and stress of a PD in your life.

You can make it work and it is doable but it's a marathon not a sprint. Being in court especially sucks, but it's gonna suck to varying degrees forever. It is so easy to get burned out. I still deal with that panic you're talking about. It takes a toll on your health.

I don't want to act like I'm totally uninvolved - I feel better when I'm helping my husband determine the strategy of how he behaves when it comes to his ex. But it really doesn't help me to just dwell on her endlessly or to feel constantly anxious about what she'll do next.

Good luck. We're here if you need to vent or strategize. People here get it, really.

[Stepping lightly]

Hi Inlove!

You are definitely in a tough spot, and a lot of us here obviously have some experience to share.  My DH's ex is quite extreme, and we've been through hell, a few times.  What everyone said before me, definitely true.  Here is my list-

- DH does the parenting.  There are several reasons for this, but most importantly it does shield me from a bit from the BM wrath.  This doesn't mean you aren't present and helpful, but I DO NOT touch medication or anything to do with medical.  They get hurt I sooth them and immediately get DH.  Every experience for us, is 100% going to be used by BM for every possible bad thing she can think of. 
- DH does all communication.  BM is not allowed to contact me- pretty much ever.  I had to give her my number once, and I said I would only accept calls if someone was on the way to the hospital and she had already tried to call DH.  She's violated it a few times, and I've slammed my foot down hard.  This is VERY important- I can absolutely not be jumpy every time my phone rings or beeps or I open email. I kid you not, I would have to take medication to handle it.
- DH only checks emails at specific times.  He has a separate email box for BM, and he gets in and he gets out.  It's intentional and it's fast.  And when he's done, he doesn't' talk to me about it.  He used to, and I finally had a breakdown and told him I couldn't take it anymore, I couldn't know what she was accusing us of every day.  I felt REALLY selfish- really selfish.  But- we realized that by me being able to step back, I was actually better able to support him.  Having me in tears of angry all the time, didn't settle his emotions down.  By separating the BM chaos from our marriage- it made  huge difference.
-Have boundaries about when and how long you can talk about her.  Don't let her take over your life.  If you need to talk about something, get in and get out.  I am horrible about festering on things, so this is hard for me.  It takes practice.
- it has been a rare occasion that we weren't able to keep this rule up, but DH never expects me to be alone with BM.  And as much as possible, I try to be present if he has to be around her.  This is hard to do, especially if there are multiple children in activities, but her behaviors just don't make me feel safe.  It also protects both of us against accusations...a bit..she still makes them but...at least we have a witness. 

The biggest point though- don't let her take over your life, your happiness, your sanity.  Maintain firm boundaries. 

[inLovebutTired]

I feel drawn to this forum more than I initially thought I would. It really helps a lot; all of your responses make me feel normal. I have really struggled with the inability to accomodate the reality that there are people like PDex-w, and that they do not stop even when their own children are involved.  That in itself is a source of such sadness; life should have no room for these realities. More personally, I do feel guilty and yes, Stepping Lightly, so so selfish not just for wanting a break from the situation, but sometimes even for not wanting to be in the situation. Even typing it now makes me feel ugly. It feels extremely unfair to characterize my relationship in these terms, even if it happens rarely. But it has happened; one time is enough to trigger the feeling that the only thing that is wrong in all this is me.

We do all of the above, and he does handle it in many of the ways you all mention – again, huge sense of normality. Thank you for sharing your insights. The goal really is to have close to zero interaction, everything scheduled 'from now to eternity', with the occasional moments when interaction is inevitable. I think it is easy to say that we both have clear boundaries with regard to our interactions with PDex-w. But clearly, the problem is where to draw the line between the two of us. I think for a solid year I have been able to take on me all his moods (I was fresh and he was depressed), and I egoistically felt proud for doing that. And at times I still do. But there are also other times where it triggers too much; it elicits anger and sadness and wanting to go back in time and change the reality of things. I keep asking myself, and unfortunately have asked him, how could this happen. But then the answer to that question would not even matter - there is our present to take care of. *My* present... yet I fear that by distancing myself, I am putting distance in the relationship itself. He will not trust me, will not tell me what is happening not to hurt me –it happened, it was out of love and protection, but what I felt was not being in his life as I would like to–. I guess it takes more practice than I expected. PDex-w has made it so that he will not see the children for at least 6 weeks. I know he is hurting –and there is nothing I can do to sooth that hurting spot.

But I do not want to just whine. This is one of many aspects of a relationship that is fulfilling, filled with love, optimistic towards the future. The children understand the situation very clearly in spite of lies ant the alike; his daily presence in their lives until recently is bearing fruit, although it costed him mental and physical health. He has recovered though, even if it is still a long way to go. Now I need to find my identity for those moments when what has become a marginal part of his life takes more space. It might be a good way to think of it.

[Arkhangelsk]

Hey there, In Love,

You asked what my partner does that helps me.  Here is an off the cuff list:
- He is attentive.  He always says hello and goodbye with a warm kiss and he notices things, like when my breakfast bars are running low.  He keeps my favorite lip balm, 2 bobbies pins, a ponytail holder and an applicator-less tampon in the little pocket in his jeans (This seems like this tiny little thing.  But is a perfect example of just being super present.  He knows I loose track of such items all the time).
- He has become the kid's cheerleader.  He write them notes in the mornings and notices things about them that I did not even see.  This makes parenting more pleasurable for me, which is a gift.
- He has become my cheerleader.  Now that he has a lot of credibility with the kids, he uses it to talk to them about me.  He will notice things out load, for example like, "Wow, your mother worked all day and then made sure we got to sit down to this amazing meal.  You guys are lucky kids."
- He lets me decide on the things that are mine to decide as a parent and as a co-parent with my ex.  It is always clear to me that he is giving me his thoughts, but not his pressure about how to proceed.

Now, for you.  I will tell you what I do back:
- I make a point to figure out what is hard about having kids and offer relief.  For example, he HATES the car to be full of kid crumbs.  So I have it detailed once a quarter.
- I cheerlead right back and praise him in front of the kids.  I often send all the credit his way for nice stuff we do for them together.  I am the bio mom, I figure he needs the boost more.
- I make sure he gets plenty of time where the house is clean, kids stuff is away and we do adult activities.  Even on school nights, I make sure he know he can do things on his own, like go out with his trivia team.
- I make sure he knows his opinion is truly valuable to me, even in the spaces where the decision-making rests with me. 

[Penny Lane]

He keeps my favorite lip balm, 2 bobbies pins, a ponytail holder and an applicator-less tampon in the little pocket in his jeans (This seems like this tiny little thing.  But is a perfect example of just being super present.  He knows I loose track of such items all the time).

Wow, that is next-level partnering. Puts everything I do for H to shame.

This is a good list and I want to expand on the point about decision-making and the bio parent being the ultimate decider.

Obviously H is the decision-maker about coparenting stuff, I think the bio parent has to be. But I am not as chill as Arkhangelsk's fiance, or maybe they met when she was later in the healing process. Because when I met H he was doing a lot of things that, had they continued long-term, would have been deal-breakers for me. Things like, making bad decisions for the kids to appease BM (who would not be appeased and would still be terrible to him and the kids). Like, dropping plans with me at the last minute because BM "needed" him to do something for her. Just like, continuing to enable her bad decisions and not setting good limits on the amount of energy he spent on her.

I had to set some limits for myself or I would have gone crazy. At first it was things like "I am not making plans with you if there's a 50% chance you'll cancel them for your ex wife" or "I don't want to hear about your kids who I haven't met and your ex wife for three hours." But it eventually turned into "here are the limits I need you to set with her if we're going to get more serious." When I write it out like this it all sounds very healthy but it was really messy and frustrating and sad. I was probably too pushy about it and he wasn't ready to hear some of it.

It all worked out, obviously, he did some healing and I did some work on my own boundaries and need to fix stuff. But I think you need to get really clear in your head on what you need from your partner for this to work out long term, and see if you can get on the same page about that. Some of that might involve insisting he set limits with his ex, and that's OK. And then once you're on the same page big-picture about how he should deal with her, it's easier to say "I know you'll make a good decision here! Let me know if you want some input." Had we not gotten to that point, we probably would've broken up.

We never really had this problem with parenting decisions because he makes better decisions for his kids than I ever could, and I am comfortable - even happy - to let him continue as the final decision maker in our house when it comes to the kids. He also, like Arkhangelsk said, solicits my input and does make me feel like I'm helping.

In Love, back to your post:

I have really struggled with the inability to accomodate the reality that there are people like PDex-w, and that they do not stop even when their own children are involved.

This is a really good way to put it. I too struggled and still struggle with this. Even my friends who've known me this whole time are sometimes still shocked. Like I'll say "last night the kids came back and they were so exhausted they couldn't function and it was really sad." And my friends will say, "can't H bring this up to BM? Surely she doesn't want the kids to be exhausted and miserable at school?" And I'll say, "well, no, in the past she has said it's not her responsibility to make sure the kids get enough sleep or that she has to keep them up late on school nights for family time or that she is certain he is lying about how tired they are." And this is just like a routine part of our lives, but my friend is shocked at how awful it is. And then sometimes BM will do something so bad that I am shocked, even after I long ago thought nothing she did could shock me anymore.

So yes you are very normal in a very not normal situation. Being tired, letting it become a drain on you - all very normal. There's no perfect way to respond to impossible situations like this.

[Arkhangelsk]

Going to hit the topics backwards, but - yes.  This stuff is BIAZARRE.  Most people do not get it.  The PD is going to do sick ass stuck that hurts the kids.  It is a little better once you accept this truth.

I think I did meet my fiancé a bit later in my process, Penny Lane.  AND he is a superior boundary setter.  I think the relationship would just have fizzled at the get go with him, if I had even thought about caving to a crazy PD demand.  So, I think you are right to raise that as a caveat.  The bio parents needs to be in a good place or able to get there, so that the step parent can have a safe space to trust the decision making process. 

Lastly, yes.  The pocket full of all the tiny needful things is super supportive.  But for him too.  It makes him crazy if people are not prepared for predictable problems.  So, he is loving on me, but giving us both the grace of preparing for me, instead of being frustrated with me in this space where I repeatedly manage not to think ahead.

[inLovebutTired]

Thanks for all the replies, and thanks Penny Lane for your words. Yes, the sensation of me being "crazy" and not normal has been there for a while. My choice of words, because that is what I was feeling. On the one hand, I know I cannot be supportive in the way I want and the way it should be if I do not know what is going on. Clearly, nobody wants for this to become a daily topic, and there is no need for it to be. But I cannot address his concerns about the kids growing up just with her examples and rules for much of the time, given the custody situation, if I do not know what the dynamic was and is now. I can listen, for sure, but I like to share my insights, which he has always appreciated. But sometimes I feel hard to have insights if the sight is half blocked. Of course this is never really intentional; on a couple of occasions he postponed some details because he wanted to protect me. It's a difficult balance, and I do not know the best road to take. I have an incredibly good memory, coupled with the bad tendency of overthinking – things stay with me for too long. So of course he wants to protect me.

My partner has never done anything like dropping plans to please PD-ex, I think he stopped that very early in the relationship.There were bargains (he would spell-check her writing if she stayed out until late on his nights), but all conducted via emails. It might have happened that one of the kids was sick, and so he worked for home and we did not meet up for lunch for a day or to – staff like that. I feel the same, as understandable as it is, it would be a deal-breaker. This actually relates closely to another issue I have with the situation, which you all addressed and rightly: I honestly believe that I do understand several of the aspects involved. But accepting them does not follow understanding so easily, even if I realize that the price to pay if I do not work on my struggles is breaking up a relationship in which I do believe. With a person I do love. I fear that this is a way to buy myself time, imagining that it will change "in the future", once this second round of legal debate will be over, or once the kids are older, or once we stop doing long distance and we manage to have better, more balanced conversations... when I say these things to him, he says we need to be happy now, instead of betting on the future. I know he is right. I feel happy most of the time, but sometimes memories hit me severely, and I spiral back into questions to understand how situations like this can possibly happen. But they do, and what is the point of looking back to a decade ago anyway? Endless conversations with myself striking both sides, as this paragraph itself exemplifies.

Ultimately this boils down to putting a lot of trust, as in every relationship; yet my impression is that the trust in these situations needs to be at moments almost an act of faith, precisely because this stuff is really BIZARRE (appropriate choice of words), and out of the control of my partner. I have never witnesses in person rages; the desire to understand what this is through old events conflicts with the awareness that witnessing any of this behavior does not do any good either. Everything now goes through lawyers, it's a matter of managing the stress. And the stress is real in an intense way sometimes; the last trick PDex pulled was to prevent him to see the kids for one full month, and the chaos was so that he did not meet me in Beijing as planned. Again, it was easy to understand, and I really mean it: I know him, I know his pain, it really was easy to understand why he could not make it. But I am only human, "a coward at best", and want to blame someone for the chaos that reaches my own life too. Blaming PDex, of course; but this also entails questioning how this situation was ever possible in the first place. Which of course makes me feel horrible because of the implications these questions can bring with themselves. This is where I am too pushy, and I understand that digging the past leads to nothing.

Clearly still lot of work to do on my part. I am not a good boundary setter. Two years is not that much in the end, considering how he revolutionized his life also to be able to be with me, and that several months were absorbed by the legal case.

[athene1399]

inLove, have you told your partner that you appreciate that he wants to protect you, but you would like to know what is going on with his ex so that you can help him better? And maybe let him know that if it gets to be too much and you need a break from it that you will let him know to start leaving you out of the loop again. let him know that sharing your insight is important to you.

I've done my fair share of overthinking. And worrying over nothing. BM has done so much crazy stuff, I'm always afraid she'll do it again or try to one-up herself. BM's been very quiet lately, so hopefully we've really cut out any reason for her to speak to SO (SD's living on campus and SO and I are helping her with expenses). I thought BM'd go off the deep end again (becasue she did earlier in the summer), but we've not heard anything crazy from her yet. I feel dumb for being so worried (and wasting energy on worrying), but sometimes we worry and it's ok.

On bad days we had with BM, I would also look to the future (like when SD turns 21 we will never have a reason to speak to BM again). It really helped to keep me going. I understand that that cannot be your focus, but it is nice to think on a bad day "this bad situation will not always be my reality. Things will get better".

You can also look up stuff on radical acceptance, where you accept that you and your partner cannot control the ex's behavior. These bizarre things will happen, they are out of your control, and that is okay. You focus on controlling what you are responsible for and nothing more.