Entitlement!

Started by p123, September 10, 2019, 03:12:46 AM

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p123

Quote from: WomanInterrupted on September 13, 2019, 12:06:49 AM
You can harness the annoyance and use it to make your boundaries stick - and I think it's time you harden your heart to his FOG, stop explaining things to him (JADE), and tell it like it IS.

Say he needs groceries - starving.  Again, some more.   :violin:

You:  Dad, I'm not coming until Sunday.  You can have groceries delivered, or figure out something else, but I will NOT be there before Sunday."  :ninja:

Him - but, but, starving, old man, I'm your priority, I'm just an old man, and I'm huuuuuuungry....you wouldn't let me starve!?  :dramaqueen:

You:   Dad.  Either you have groceries delivered or figure something out.  I won't be over until Sunday and that is my final answer.  Goodbye."  :ninja:

Then hang up and block him until Sunday.  Chances are, he'll mooch off somebody - but he's perfectly capable of figuring it out, and just doesn't WANT to:roll:

The same with work - don't explain.  He doesn't listen, he doesn't care, save your breath -you may need it one day.  :)

"Dad.  I am not coming over for two weeks."  :ninja:

But - reasons!  :violin:

"I'm not coming over for two weeks.  Whatever you need in that time, call brother, or I'm sure you're capable of figuring it out.  Bye." - and BLOCK!  :ninja:

The same goes for your FOC, or any other thing - all he's got is negative things to say (too expensive!  I come first!  You're wasting your money!) - *stop telling him anything!*  :yes:

You'll thank yourself after you tell him you're doing well, the kids are good, wife is fine, job's going well, everything is just fine and lovely - and you haven't handed him a crumb of information to use against you.  8-)

I don't care if you had a Week from Hell, or the Best Week, Evah! - he hasn't earned the *right* to hear about any of it.  :no:

Something that helped me, and I think it will help you, is to *stop thinking of him as your parent.*

What you're dealing with is some rando who just walked up to you and demanded your car keys, with NO explanation.  He just sticks his hand out, expectantly, getting angrier and angrier with each second that you don't automatically just do as he says.   :aaauuugh:

Would you *reason* with that person?  Would you try to *explain*?  :thumbdown:

Hell, no!  You'd ask if he's freaking high, and tell him to GO AWAY.  :thumbup: :ninja: :evil2:

That's how you have to handle your dad - it's how I had to handle unBPD Didi and unNPD Ray, too - you take ALL emotion out of it and stick to the facts.   :yes:

I can't do that.  I just old  you why - I can't do that.  I'm not coming until Sunday - I'm busy.  Very busy - no, I can't change my schedule, and no, I don't feel like sharing - it's boring and stupid.  I'm sure you'll be fine, on your own - or figure something out.  :ninja:

Didi and Ray never stopped trying to hector and badger me, but I think it did sink in somewhere that once I said NO - that was it.  There was no compromise to be had, no matter what they said, did or pulled.  My NO outranked their bleats of bored, lonely and old.

Your NO outranks your dad's bleats, too - and I really do think it's time you play hardball - it's the only way he's going to take you seriously, and look elsewhere for his "needs."

:hug:

WI - Of course, you're dead right. I'm getting there but do find it difficult to just say no.
He has worked out I think that I'm not letting him get away with it as much.And hes upped the stakes to try and counter!

Yeh I've tried to give him no info now. Like you said, it just gives him fuel.

The holiday thing this year was nuts. I booked it months ago and didn't tell him. Obviously, as it got closer I had to tell him. Despite having the conversation EVERY YEAR FOR THE PAST 5-6 YEARS he still managed to stick his nose in with an inappropriate comment how he could not believe I could be stupid enough to take a holiday when I don't get paid. I guess I'll have to get used to ignoring this sort of thing.

Am I only one though who feels sad about this? Its as if I've lost a parent. Someone you can talk to, spend time with in their last years. All I've got left is an annoying old man who cares little about me and causes me loads of grief.

Lillith65

Quote from: p123 on September 10, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
Quote from: SunnyMeadow on September 10, 2019, 08:05:25 AM
Quote from: p123 on September 10, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
"I don't need to go to one of those horrible places to die. You won't put me away there would you? All I need is a little help from you're brother and you as I get older. You can do that for me can't you?"

He's very skilled in dishing out guilt!  :roll:

Like lkdrymom wrote, reply with the "this is concerning, you sound like you need to be in an assisted living place, dad" and do it all the time. It becomes your standard reply. Then maybe he'll stop the guilt and need or at least stop saying it to you and transfer it to your brother!

Oh yes hes a master at it.

I've noticed he gets a bit exasperated these days though because its not working. In the past, he said things and I'd jump. His all time favourite phrase used to be "I thought you might have popped in to see me this weekend" or "I'm disappointed you weren't able to do this" and, as I said, "can you make a big effort this weekend?". Now when he says these sort of things I'll say "Right OK". or "I was busy" or "I told you I was busy" or "I can't promise" then change the subject. Works a treat with him.

It took me years to realise that I could not rely on my Dad to be considerate of my time, my health, or my family. Its always 100% of the time all about him. Now I realise that if I've got to let him down, its tough luck if he doesn't like it.

This is how my mother was before I went NC following months of her saying that she'd kill herself every time I pointed out that a choice she was making was unwise. After the penny dropped that I was being lined up to be her full time carer and general dogsbody no matter my health, work, other responsibilities or need to have a life I had a frank discussion with her.

She ended up screaming abuse at me, calling me names and telling me to keep away from her and my sister.

So I have and my life is much calmer and less stressful as a result 😎

It is not easy and I still suffer from FOG but the longer it goes on, the easier it is.
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm - anonymous.

Part of my story: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54885.msg488293#msg488293
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54892.msg488385#msg488385

NC uPDM; NC uBPDSis

Lillith65

And yes, it is sad, and we may have to grieve the (premature) loss of a parent; but honestly, some parents are manipulative, abusive and totally self-centred.

For example, in the year that I was made redundant from long term job that I loved, I had moved house three times, my partner left me which meant that I lost my home, my Dad died and my sone had serious mental health problems, she could not understand why I was not perkily offering to do everything for her and helping her move into a house she couldn't afford.

She and my sister planned that my mother would move close to me - I wasn't consulted - and the clear expectation was that because I was now single, had more time and lived nearby, my mother would be my responsibility. This is the woman who had been emotionally and physically abusive when I was a child, who continued to emotionally abuse me into adulthood and who blamed me for anything and everything.

So glad that I got away.
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm - anonymous.

Part of my story: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54885.msg488293#msg488293
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54892.msg488385#msg488385

NC uPDM; NC uBPDSis

lightworld

Quote from: p123 on September 13, 2019, 03:33:04 AM

Am I only one though who feels sad about this? Its as if I've lost a parent. Someone you can talk to, spend time with in their last years. All I've got left is an annoying old man who cares little about me and causes me loads of grief.

Oh no you are definitely not the only one to feel this way, it is incredibly sad and you can find lots of posts on the  forum from people grieving for parents they never had.  It takes time to to get to the stage of being able to be detached and at first you have to fake it until you make it. I used to have an MC script when talking to F with no personal information, it felt so false and it's terrible that we have to do it but it's the hand we were dealt. Grieving and feeling sad is normal and probably never goes away but I agree with WI channeling the anger is good.  :blowup:
An empathic, highly sensitive, caring, loving, naïve, emotional and vulnerable child is a prime target for a narcissistic parent
Clare Lane

p123

Quote from: Lillith65 on September 13, 2019, 10:13:53 AM
Quote from: p123 on September 10, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
Quote from: SunnyMeadow on September 10, 2019, 08:05:25 AM
Quote from: p123 on September 10, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
"I don't need to go to one of those horrible places to die. You won't put me away there would you? All I need is a little help from you're brother and you as I get older. You can do that for me can't you?"

He's very skilled in dishing out guilt!  :roll:

Like lkdrymom wrote, reply with the "this is concerning, you sound like you need to be in an assisted living place, dad" and do it all the time. It becomes your standard reply. Then maybe he'll stop the guilt and need or at least stop saying it to you and transfer it to your brother!

Oh yes hes a master at it.

I've noticed he gets a bit exasperated these days though because its not working. In the past, he said things and I'd jump. His all time favourite phrase used to be "I thought you might have popped in to see me this weekend" or "I'm disappointed you weren't able to do this" and, as I said, "can you make a big effort this weekend?". Now when he says these sort of things I'll say "Right OK". or "I was busy" or "I told you I was busy" or "I can't promise" then change the subject. Works a treat with him.

It took me years to realise that I could not rely on my Dad to be considerate of my time, my health, or my family. Its always 100% of the time all about him. Now I realise that if I've got to let him down, its tough luck if he doesn't like it.

This is how my mother was before I went NC following months of her saying that she'd kill herself every time I pointed out that a choice she was making was unwise. After the penny dropped that I was being lined up to be her full time carer and general dogsbody no matter my health, work, other responsibilities or need to have a life I had a frank discussion with her.

She ended up screaming abuse at me, calling me names and telling me to keep away from her and my sister.

So I have and my life is much calmer and less stressful as a result 😎

It is not easy and I still suffer from FOG but the longer it goes on, the easier it is.

Glad things worked out for you..... :-)

Yeh Dad has hinted at the "killing himself" thing in the past. Has certainly tried his best to get me worried that hes really ill. These days I know its 99% made up so ignore him.

I wish he was in the USA sometimes where doctor appointments etc cost money. Because he wouldnt go. He tried it on when I was on my recent holiday. "Now dont be worried but I've had to get the doctor out to me". Basically, he had a sore throat and called the doctor to visit and the doc gave him antibiotics to shut him up. I dont think he realised how NOT WORRIED AT ALL I was because, as per usual, nothing much wrong.

He does worry me how far hes willing to push things though. I stop something - he escalates. I do wonder if there'll come a day when it gets so bad. Hes already done one or two faked injuries to get into hospital.




p123

Quote from: lightworld on September 13, 2019, 10:27:57 AM
Quote from: p123 on September 13, 2019, 03:33:04 AM

Am I only one though who feels sad about this? Its as if I've lost a parent. Someone you can talk to, spend time with in their last years. All I've got left is an annoying old man who cares little about me and causes me loads of grief.

Oh no you are definitely not the only one to feel this way, it is incredibly sad and you can find lots of posts on the  forum from people grieving for parents they never had.  It takes time to to get to the stage of being able to be detached and at first you have to fake it until you make it. I used to have an MC script when talking to F with no personal information, it felt so false and it's terrible that we have to do it but it's the hand we were dealt. Grieving and feeling sad is normal and probably never goes away but I agree with WI channeling the anger is good.  :blowup:

Yeh I just get so sad that I can't have a normal realtionship with him. And I continually wonder if its just me being mean to him at times and he cant help it.

BUT, deep down I know. I remember the tricks hes pulled over the years.....

Its just so sad that when he does go Im going to remember his last 10 years or so when he was like this.......

p123

One plus to this weeks "your brother is away so you'll have to fill in" week is that I've not heard from my brother at all. That facebook block remains.....

Previously, I'd have had "Im away, can you look after Dad? Can you go to see him on these days?" He just never seemed to understand that having to deal with an ASD teenager, 6 year old, ill wife, full time job, out of hours on call,  then you've got gymnastics practice, swimming lessons, ballet, ice skating lessons, and then you've got a 30-45 min drive to his house.

Not quite the same as having no kids (to look after - long story), living 1 mile away, and/or getting your partner who doesnt work to visit him while you're in work yourself anyway

Best of all he used to tell Dad he was working 14 days straight 12 hour shifts in the factory. (Dad related to the "factory" because that was proper mens work whereas I just work in an office so it must be easy). Then I'd see him posting pics in the pub all weekend. He even used to tell Dad he was working and couldnt take him for lunch and then I'd see him post pics having lunch with his wife 300 yards from Dads house. I must have slipped up a few times and showed Dad those pics  :cheers: Problem is Dad still used to believe him and sun shone out of his backside!

Im hoping I've killed off that flying monkey at least!!!!! Good riddance. He can think what he likes of me and if I never see him again it'll be too soon.


StayWithMe

Would it be too petty to bring your kids on this?  Like, "Thursday night.  I take daughter to dance class that night.  Do yu want her to miss that class.  We've already paid for it," ... and so on. 

WomanInterrupted

Hon, you didn't lose a parent - you never had one in the first place, and are only starting to realize it as his filters stop working and he shows you who he really is.

As Maya Angelou  said, "When somebody shows you who they are, believe them."  :yes:

Your dad only cares about himself and the easiest way to get from point A to point B, without actually having to do any of the work.  He's shirked his responsibilities for *decades* and fobbed them off onto others, coming off like a poor dear man with two young children, who just needs a helping hand.  :violin:

But the kids grew up and moved away - and he's still the same person.  He wants and expects *others* to do for him - and that includes you, the scapegoat with the job, life, marriage and kids, while your GC brother, who sits idle in a bar and tells porkies about his "long work days" - gets off scot free.   :blowup:

Does that sound fair to you?  Your brother lives nearby, yet he's the one who you wisely blocked, since he's deployed as a FMM to light a fire under your ass - as long as he doesn't actually have to DO anything.

It's time for that to stop.  YOU don't have to do anything, either.  :yes: :ninja:

We are all responsible for *ourselves* - and that includes your father.  If he'd rather sit on his butt, snap his fingers, and have things magically appear - it's on HIM to figure out how to make that happen and not YOU to provide those services.

UnBPD Didi and unNPD Ray were married, lived in the same hoarded-up house, and barely interacted except to scream at each other, provoke, goad and fight like cats and dogs.  I had very little to do with Ray while he was alive (they adopted me to manage HER  :blink:),  and Didi thought I *owed* it to her to be her slave.  :thumbdown:

I noped right out of that shit - and the only reason she ever got out of me was that I was "too busy."  :ninja:

Busy is a state of mind - it's not you, running around and trying to catch up on 10,000 home improvement projects.

Busy is you, hanging out with your family.  :)

Busy is you, taking a day to slip into something more slovenly and play computer games, or binge-watch something you've been meaning to get to.  8-)

Busy is YOU, living, breathing and *existing.*  :yahoo:

THAT is busy -  and that's *exactly* what I was doing.  I was busy.  No can-do.  Sorry.  Not even five minutes.  That doesn't work for me.  I'll see what I can do, but I can't promise anything.  :ninja:

"I'll see what I can do..." is another one that doesn't mean exactly what the PD in your life thinks it means.  :sly:

Sometimes what you can do is *absolutely nothing* - and that's exactly what you DO.  NOTHING.  :ninja:  The problem isn't yours - the problem is his, and if your dad doesn't want to solve it, that's not on  you.   :thumbup:

NONE of this is on you - it's on him, and if he escalates by making more demands, *do even less.*  Call back *less often.*  Block his number for several weeks.  He won't starve and he won't die - he'll go on living and gaaaaaaaasp - figure shit out, like how to have groceries delivered.  :doh:

You might need to slap a hand over your mouth as he proudly boasts he figured this out *all by himself* - but it's worth it.  You'll have proven what you already know - your dad is just about as lazy as they come, and would prefer shortcuts in the form of other people doing work FOR him - and doesn't even want to make a call to make it happen.  :roll:

But most of all, he wants YOU - so he doesn't have to *behave* in front of STRANGERS.  With you, he can let his freak flag fly  - you've seen him at his worst, so it doesn't matter what you think, and he really doesn't want to have to make an effort for *others* or *outsiders.*

Tough.  8-)

You can't do it - you're busy.  :ninja:

Once you become comfortable with that, your life will become *much* easier  - if your dad wants something, he'll have to figure it out or your brother will have to get involved, while you stay  safely OUT of the fray.  :)

With both Didi and Ray, I was always "busy" - nope, can't do it.  Can't change my schedule.  I'm sure you'll figure it out.  :ninja:

They did - they just didn't want to, like your dad.

He only wants to use you, like Didi and Ray wanted to use me - and yes, they started "forgetting" to pay me back, or hand-waving things away, like my money meant nothing and was just another thing I owed them, on the never-ending list I could never repay.  :roll:

I decided it was paid in full when I was a child  :'( >:( - and you can do the same.  :yes:

You are *not* abandoning your father - he has a phone, it dials other numbers than yours, and can connect to a wide variety of services that will benefit him.   :yes:

He'd just rather inconvenience you  - you and your FOC deserve better than to live at the whims of somebody who will never be happy, unless he's driving you crazy.

You have the power to make that stop.  You have the power to see that old man for who and what he really is and say, "No more."  :yes:

Let him escalate - and let the professionals deal with him.  Sooner or later, your dad is going to cross a line he didn't know was there, and probably wind up having himself sectioned.

Let it happen - and do nothing.  You'll thank yourself, later.

:hug:

p123

#29
WI you're spot on as usual....

Im getting there just wish I could be as good as that....

Right what you say hes been like that fr decades. He has. Its just become more apparent as he got older.

Still dont understand how he EVER decided to take on parental responsibility for two young toddlers aged 3 and 4, back in 1972. Doesnt fit with his character.

Hazy111

P123,

Regarding your question about taking on responsibility for  two young children back in the day. I obviously dont know all the facts and maybe you dont , but similar happened in my extended back in the day. The wife left and the husband won custody of 2 young children, but on the proviso his sister moved in! It didnt go well.

For the narc, how he appears to others is everything to keep him mentally stable. So maybe he thought he had no choice, ( i need to appear to be a good loving Dad) but didnt think through the long term consequences of what it meant.

Narcissistic men cant be fathers as ive come to realise, because they are still self obsessed children themselves. They have arrested development.

They get worse with age if their narcissistic supply runs out and get more and more demanding to those still in contact.

lkdrymom

You really missed a perfect opportunity.  When he was whining about not having enough food until Sunday what you should have said  "well Dad, if you were in ASSISTED LIVING you would never have to worry about where your next meal was coming from...next time I can make it up to you, lets go look at places".


nanotech

I think that to him, and other PDs ( including my dad) assisted living means admitting to the world that they need help to live. For narcs and borderlines, this is a bitter blow to their pride. They can't deal with it. Yet day to day, they begin now and again to need some support. This makes them feel angry and invalidated, so they get grumpy with US (who else) and blame us for leaving them so exposed to the realisation that they are no longer truly independent!  They guilt us into helping, stressing how it's  a privilege for us. This way, they never have to thank us, and once helped they quickly resume the belief that they are independent.
This is how children 'helping' PD parents can actually be bad for them. They are the ones most in need of assisted living.
They may talk about how  see other children do things for their parents. But comparisons are odious. These arrangements can be fine where the parent is non PD and understands their child is a person with a life. These adult children haven't been damaged, are not triggered by the contact,  and are not gaslighted and guilted into helping.
Keep those boundaries up. Say no a lot, and cut short the conversation. Don't give personal information.  Good luck.
I'm about eight years Out of the FOG. Standing up to my dad was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. If I hadn't he would be living with me by now, and I'd be his servant. 
He had to accept my changed attitude, and of course I'm the healthier for it.

StayWithMe

PDs also don't like assisted living because it appears that family doesn't care enough or they don't have enough money to afford a full time caregiver.

Both humbling thoughts..

p123

Quote from: StayWithMe on September 15, 2019, 10:48:41 PM
PDs also don't like assisted living because it appears that family doesn't care enough or they don't have enough money to afford a full time caregiver.

Both humbling thoughts..

Yes my Dad would think of the "shame" that he'd have to tell his friends that 1) he can't cope and 2) his family have let him down.

He lives in an are where men are men and some of the attitudes are not the most liberal to be honest. Its rife. (for those in the uk, south wales valleys - traditionally a very blue collar indistry place - coal mining, steel etc).

I get with Dad that he gets scared that he won't be able to cope. BUT I'v never let him down. He is a bit of a hypochondriac too. In his head, hes 10x more ill than he acually us - this doesn't help.

SO, I guess he likes to test people to ensure they know he is 100% a priority. Which is what causes the problem.

Another problem is he just won't listen to anyone. Hes very stubborn. Also, despite having £1000s in the bank he wont spend money. So whereas Im willing to do things or arrange things to help he wont do it unless its something he likes or knows about or is free. Again, his friends opinion is more important than mine too.

Example - took me months to talk him into a stair lift at home. All because his friends felt "no-one needs this sort of thing, just get on with it". Not great, eh?

lkdrymom

My father was the same way....my opinion was not important but the opinion of some stranger was golden. He used to pop into my office when he still lived on his own.  If there was something I needed him to do I'd get my receptionist to suggest  it to him....then he was willing.  Then I got a huge promotion and he thought my opinion was gold. He'd steal my business cards and hand them out to people. I flipped out and asked why and he said so people could call me.  I don't need random strangers bothering me at work! He'd start calling me on every little thing.  Then I wished we would go back to where my opinion did not matter.

When your father was your age would he have had time to cater to an elderly relative? Maybe point that out. Maybe time for bluntness. Tell him that he drives you away with his neediness. My father was the same way. I didn't mind helping my father when he truly needed help.  It was the neediness and making up of issues just to get attention.  That turned me off and pushed me farther away.  They have no idea how to be a person you want to be around.

p123

Quote from: lkdrymom on September 16, 2019, 05:48:23 AM
My father was the same way....my opinion was not important but the opinion of some stranger was golden. He used to pop into my office when he still lived on his own.  If there was something I needed him to do I'd get my receptionist to suggest  it to him....then he was willing.  Then I got a huge promotion and he thought my opinion was gold. He'd steal my business cards and hand them out to people. I flipped out and asked why and he said so people could call me.  I don't need random strangers bothering me at work! He'd start calling me on every little thing.  Then I wished we would go back to where my opinion did not matter.

When your father was your age would he have had time to cater to an elderly relative? Maybe point that out. Maybe time for bluntness. Tell him that he drives you away with his neediness. My father was the same way. I didn't mind helping my father when he truly needed help.  It was the neediness and making up of issues just to get attention.  That turned me off and pushed me farther away.  They have no idea how to be a person you want to be around.

I remember my gran (his mother). She was similar I think. Obviously, I didnt have the responsibility and know the full story. But I do remember she used to call her daughter (dads sister) at 7am on a sunday and demand a doctor visit here. Not any doctor it had to be the one she liked.

I remember Dad getting irate at times and saying "Shoot me if I'm ever like that when I get old". Oh how the might fall. This is all forgotten now,

StayWithMe

Quotemy opinion was not important but the opinion of some stranger was golden.

My mother does that.  I look upon it as her way of saying she's an expert too.  That is, maybe she doesn't have the answer, but she produce someone whose opinion will trump mine.  So when it comes to my health, the best she can say is "do what the doctor says."  Ok.

She also has a habit of asking strangers for directions.  The slightest hesitation that I show, maybe checking a map, giving a second look at signage, will launch her into asking other people for directions.  When we have travled in non English speaking countries, she will suggest that I ask whoever is near us for directions even if there is no indication that the person would know the info we're looking for and could speak English.

When I moved to New Jersey, my mother became impatient with the signage for the New Jersey turnpike.  Anyone who has spent time in NJ will remember how signs for the turnpike are still many, MANY blocks from the actual opening.  My mother actually stuck her head out of the window and asked strangers in cars next to us for directions.  One time i followed them and they took us nowhere.  fortunately, it was still daylight.

It took me a while to get over the natural deference that I gave my parents.  I have now learned to bob my head and say, ok and do what I think is best.

But for the uninitiated, they can't believe that someone can pleasure out of that sort of behavior.

p123

Tonights visit was just a WOW. Im still in shock to be honest....

Its his birthday which is why I visited. I did get annoying comment about how I finish work at 5pm and don't get to him until 6pm when its only 10 miles away. (He doesn't get the no set hours thing - I was busy and left at 530. Neither does he get the reason I don't visit after work is because in rush hour those 10 miles take an hour).

Anyway he was ok. I almost started to feel like I misjudged him.
I ignored the standard, "I guess you'll be visiting the weekend" dig.No probably not. Pretty standard. If I don't visit to to his frequency then he comments (i.e. every two days = no chance!)

Then he drops the bombshell. "So is your wife going to call me and wish me happy birthday?". I was dumbstruck. He then accidentally gave me an out "I never see her these days" to which I replied "shes always working".

I don't believe it. They've not spoken for 18 months. My wife can't stand him any more. As I've said before, shes right too. I don't want to get banned off this forum but we ALL of us (wife and I) know what he is, I think the same I've just got the added complication of him being my Dad so I'm stuck. I just can't expect my wife to put up with him. We decided a year or so ago that I was fine for her to have no contact with him - up to her.

Some of his behaviour has been terrible and shes been dragged into more than once without any choice. I just don't get it. I don't see how he can even, for one second, imagine that hes done nothing wrong and has not upset her in the past few months. Is this a thing with someone with PD? i.e. they really don't think they've done anything wrong.

Dads apologised to me about 10 times for things in last year. All fake. He does the same the week after. He always says  don't tell your wife. Does he really think I keep things from her? (Its possible, hes always a great believer that women should be kept in the dark and not trusted because they don't see things straight. Hes been divorced twice lol! Not me at all).

Or I do think part of it is a power thing again? i.e. Its my birthday and so you pay homage ("kiss the ring") and respect me by calling me on my birthday. Also, as is often, hes got an idea that the "right" thing that someone should so is to call their father in law on their birthday and as such he demands it.

I'm still in shock now. I haven't told me wife yet - I will - the idea is just crazy after whats gone on. I can see this all exploding if this is his attitude.

Its not helped by brothers wife who he think is Florence Nightingale. She visits all the time (doesnt work, lives a mile away) because she can smell the money in the bank he has. I have caught her out more than once though... Of course, my wife is the Devil incarnate because she does nothing.

SerenityCat

Those of us who do not have a personality disorder may not ever really be able to fully figure out the behaviors and motivations of a person with a personality disorder.

We may not be able to put ourselves in their shoes. We can guess, and sometimes we may be right, but at least for myself - it has been important to acknowledge that I simply do not know. I don't understand. I myself would never do those behaviors.

I mean, I'm not perfect, I make mistakes, but I could not do the sustained personality disordered behaviors.

So I go through the shock and amazement. It's like culture shock. As if I'm in an upside down world when dealing with my PD family.

I want an explanation so that I can make sense of things and maybe feel safer. But things don't make sense and in some situations I am actually not safe. At least my sanity is in jeopardy.  :)

I've been trained to feel guilty and to blame for everything. I've had to work on that, including in therapy.

p123, you and your family deserve a good enjoyable life. I know you feel stuck, but you aren't. You can limit your contact further with your father. You can even walk away, for a break, or longer. You can focus on yourself and your immediate family.

I think WI's posts here are worth reading over regularly. Maybe even print out and read daily.

If humor ever helps you in other situations, try that. Crack some jokes, vent, sing a silly little song about the situation. Give yourself a playful pep talk. It's ridiculous that this guy is causing you so much grief, isn't it? You can get free. Your wife might quite like that too.