Entitlement!

[p123]

Last night we had another classic. Land line rings at 5pm. I always avoid answering at this time - 5pm is the time hes realised that I'm not coming to visit and despite me saying I'm busy his guilt trip has now worked that day. So conversation always goes along the lines of "oh so you didn;t visit. where have you been?" i.e. justify it lad and I'm going to make it as awkward as possible, followed by "so you're coming tomorrow?" - more guilt.

So I ignored it, 10 mins later my cell phone rings, then my land line again. No messages left. Used to this one as well - he never leaves a message. If he did, I'd know what he wanted and could make the choice whether to call, better for him to not let me know and keep ringing. Of course, then multiple calls make it look like its an emergency too!

This goes on for HOURS. 40 calls in 2 hours I see today. NO messages left. Eventually, I call him back. All it is hes had a scam phone call and hes WORRIED they're going to take his money. "Did you give them your bank details or anything?" No. SO WHY THE BIG DRAMA?

I told him this could have waited. (To be honest, if he'd have left a message I probably would have called back sooner!) NO I WAS WORRIED!!!! I WANTED TO SORT IT NOW!
In other words, this is what I want to do, and I'll phone you until I get hold of you.

Not happy. 40 CALLS!
If he'd been dying in hospital they'd probably have phoned me 2or 3 times and left a message.....

Am I wrong here but I think its just a really unnacceptable way to behave?

40 phone calls is harassment in my opinion. I don't know about you but I get a visceral reaction when I see her name on my phone. Even still after all these years of dealing with her.

Your dad isn't going to get better and will continue to put a huge strain on your marriage, your kids time with you, and your well-being.  I think you're in the UK? Here in US we have agencies that go in to help with housework, groceries, etc. My grandmother loves the attention all on her. No attention is ever too much. Classic narcissism. You may want to look into it.

Crazy isnt it? He wont leave a message just will ring again and again until he gets what he wants.

He knows if he leaves a message, then he looses the power of me not knowing what the purpose of the call was and reacting appropriately. He likes to make it look SERIOUS.

Yes Im in the UK. Oh yes he could get plenty of help but he won't. He likes getting me to do it.

Narcissim. Oh yes. See my post about his attitude because my wife didnt ring him on his birthday.

[illogical]

... I thought he'd forgotten about his birthday and his idea that my wife should ring him. Hes off again "So why didnt she ring me then?". I replied "Dad just leave it, don't worry about". Hes off "well I never see, she never does anything for me, I see her about once a year". I've no idea whats started this again. Hes obviously decided that this weekend is the time to up the pressure on me to visit, and also, my wife needs to know her place too.

It's that ENTITLEMENT coming into play again.  Your dad thinks he's "special".  He's unaware that he has pissed off your wife.  I know it's hard to wrap your head around, but he really doesn't think he's done anything wrong.  And so your wife-- someone in his orbit-- should orbit around him, The Sun.  LOL.

The reason he's putting pressure on you this weekend is because it's HIS BIRTHDAY.  So yeah, you and your wife and everyone else in his orbit needs to bow down and worship the great and almighty DAD.  HE's SPECIAL.  HE'S ENTITLED. 

I'm sorry he's making you ill.  I finally said "Enough is enough" because the N in my life was making it a holy hell-- affecting my mental and physical health.     Time to limit contact and let the chips fall where they may.  Go into your house, hunker down and block your dad from calling.  It's not worth sacrificing your health for someone who is a bottomless pit of need and will never change, only get worse. 

[Andeza]

Hey p123 I would encourage you to look at this like this for a moment. If you had a girlfriend that left 40+ missed calls for you over a nonissue, would she still be your girlfriend after that? Or would your eyes bug a bit and you say to yourself "OMG! She's got crazy stamped in her forehead! I better run while I still can!" Just let that thought turn over in your mind for a bit.

And yes, sounds like your dad is escalating. He is pushing you to "put your wife in her place."

[Adrianna]

Yeah he literally can not understand why your wife isn't catering to him because they can't see people as actual humans apart from what they can do for them. He has no concept that he's offended your wife, that she has a life of her own, that it's her decision whether she contacts him or not, and that she has feelings. She is literally a thing for attention, as are you. Neither of you matter to him apart from the attention you give.  Sorry to be blunt but this is how narcissism works.

Narc supply is behaving, is treated ok.
Narc supply is not behaving, is treated poorly.

Behaving = giving attention and complying with all demands no matter how outrageous. Aka being a doormat.

When nana gets a new neighbor, she always says "I hope they're good to me." It's their twisted view of reality. They do not see others as separate people, only a source of narcissistic supply.

Your dad wants you to do it all? This is on you now. He's been treating you this way because you've had low boundaries. How many more demands are you going to give in to? He's already draining you. I know how manipulative he is. Nana is the same. I recognize the tricks. They can't be trusted sadly. They cause chaos and confusion, drama and stress.

Ask him for his credit card then order the groceries for him.

[Adrianna]

So your dad and my grandmother are similar. I haven't been on the forum much the past couple of years. My grandmother is 97, still at home, self centered, fears abandonment, is manipulative, deceitful, a drama queen, complains constantly that no one helps her, and spends literally her entire day wondering when the next person is coming  over and what are they going to do for her. She only values people for what they do for her and has no interest in them as human beings. No respect for anyone's time. No ability to see beyond herself. When she gets into rehab she wants to be transferred to another Nursing home asap because they aren't servicing her fast enough. The entitlement is outrageous. When she doesn't get enough attention (narcissistic supply) she falls into narcissistic collapse which is basically her whining constantly, not feeling like eating, and basically acting like breathing is effort. She also likes to pretend she has dementia (she does not.) This usually leads to an ER stay then rehab. I have multiple people going in through two agencies, a friend of the family, her neighbors, a nephews wife (who replaces the last one who moved across the continent), and of course  me. And guess what? Still not enough. It's never enough. I'm in therapy and realizing wow I've been emotionally abused my entire life by this woman. Belittled, gaslighted, manipulated, guilt trips, lying. I found out recently she's been telling people for at least 5 years that I don't do enough for her. Underlying sentiment is that I'm no good. Now that she's very old she'll tell people right in front of me "she doesn't do anything for me" while I took time out of work to be there for her at that moment.

This makes me angry on your behalf Adrianna! I'm glad you're in therapy but sad for the reason. It's disgusting that these disordered people treat us this way. I'm shocked to hear your grandmother is 97 and still at home, still manipulating everyone. I can see this in my future with my mother, she's in her mid 80's and still causing turmoil.

My mother told me in an email that I don't do enough for her and I visit with all these other people SO MUCH more. I don't but she's worked that up in her mind. The "all about me" and "woe is me" inside of them is staggering. I'm angry at myself that I'm usually not strong enough to tell her to stick it. But the last huge email about how awful of a daughter I am put her in a 4 month period of NC. Shocked the hell out of her. 

I get angry at myself that she can spew whatever she feels like to get her way but I'm too scared to tell her to shut up and back off. I'm getting stronger now that I have a stress related auto immune disease. I won't let her jeopardize my health anymore. She's done it for far too long. Now my life is about me and my immediate family and friends. The people who don't cause me any stress are the important ones in my life now. 

You are so sweet! I'm angry that so many people are drained by this behavior. No one deserves to be treated like this.

I'm sorry for your health issues and wonder how much of that was from the stress she puts you through. It can take a toll. It took my mother getting sick and dying for me to realize what am I doing catering to my grandmother? For what? She doesn't appreciate it. She has no interest in me as a human being. Life is short. I have set boundaries but she still tests them. I keep setting them. I do a lot of behind the scenes work arranging services, taking to doctor, social worker, etc. but my actual time with her is limited as well as phone calls. I just can't be around her without feeling drained. I slept over her house one night after she got out of rehab (under their recommendations) to make sure she was ok which she was. Next morning I felt like I had been through war. Splitting headache, exhausted, tired.  They will drain your energy just being around them.

People finally know now how she is because at her age the mask has fallen and her true self is on display and it's not a great thing to witness. I hope you can set your boundaries now and don't wait like I did. I spent many many years trying to please someone who can never be pleased, or grateful, or love me.  Time I could have spent doing productive things, building relationships with other people,  building a relationship with myself. What a wasted effort.

[WomanInterrupted]

Adrianna - I'm so sorry your grandmother is *still* going strong!   

I hope your remember to take time for yourself and realize she is NOT the center of the universe. 

And, being the evil little duck that I am, if your grandma thinks you do nothing for her, and tells others the same thing - that's *exactly* what I'd do.  I'd hand ALL responsibility for her over to *strangers* and let them sort it - while you walk away, and leave her to it. 

If she's going to accuse you of doing nothing for her, that's your Get Out of Jail Free Card.   

I'd do the same for your father, too - maybe they can wind up sharing a room, at the same Assisted Living. 

P123 - what I see is a toddler having a tantrum, because he feels he's losing *control* of you and the entire situation, so he's going to keep you completely off-balance, so you don't realize *you really are the one calling all the shots.*

Yes - on some level, he *does* get that.  If he needs something and you don't do it, it's not going to get done, so he'll just keep pushing buttons, hoping to make you explode at him - so he can look like a *victim* and you feel guilty as hell, so you just shut up and do as you're told.

Your father knows EXACTLY what he's doing in calling you over 40 times in two hours (he'd be BLOCKED on my phone and I wouldn't call for at least a week, after that stunt!   ), demanding visits, demanding to know what you're doing, and demanding your wife call him.  It's all about HIS CONTROL and he is *not* going to give it up.

So it falls to you to *prevent* him from being able to do these things.  Block his number once he calls more than twice, or on weekends, if you want peace and quiet, then just look at your VM somewhere around Thursday, and see if there's anything important. 

If he won't leave messages (I HATE that!  UnBPD Didi was big on that tactic, too, and all Ray would say was, "Call me back.  I gotta ask/tell you something."  ARRRRRRGH!   ), then his needs don't get seen to.  It's that simple.  If you can't SAY what you want, you don't get it -  I don't read minds. 

I suspect you don't, either. 

You might consider blocking him at all times, and call him when you *want* to - and if that's every other Sunday evening, that's *fine.* 

If you want to do his shopping, once a month - that's what you DO, and you *don't* go to the store he wants you to go to, because he likes their stuff better.  Go to the closest one, drop off the stuff, and if he complains, you can always say, "Dad.  You can  have me bring things once a month from store X, or have your own groceries delivered.  Those are your options - and I can always narrow it down for you by telling you I won't be coming back, so make up your mind." 

That's playing hardball:  Yes or no.  Take it or leave it.  Those are your options.  *And you can start limiting those options FOR them, at any time.* 

That's the *consequence* of him acting so badly - you push back, and you push back *hard.* 

If you decide to go with a permanent phone block (and I WOULD), please know your dad isn't going to wither away and die - he's got a phone, and he'll call your brother, or possibly his doctor or an ambulance, but he will NOT go without - you just won't be the one providing the supply. 

When your dad asks what you were doing that you couldn't visit him, stick to, "I was busy."  If he wants to know with what, state only, "Asked and answered - I was busy.  Change the subject or I'm ending the call." 

Wife won't call?  She's BUSY.  With what?  Asked and answered - she's busy.  Change the subject or I'm ending the call. 

I think you're going to be doing a lot of that - that was how I had to treat Didi and Ray, too.  Just because they thought they were the centers of the universe, doesn't mean they get to harsh my mellow! 

[p123]

... I thought he'd forgotten about his birthday and his idea that my wife should ring him. Hes off again "So why didnt she ring me then?". I replied "Dad just leave it, don't worry about". Hes off "well I never see, she never does anything for me, I see her about once a year". I've no idea whats started this again. Hes obviously decided that this weekend is the time to up the pressure on me to visit, and also, my wife needs to know her place too.

It's that ENTITLEMENT coming into play again.  Your dad thinks he's "special".  He's unaware that he has pissed off your wife.  I know it's hard to wrap your head around, but he really doesn't think he's done anything wrong.  And so your wife-- someone in his orbit-- should orbit around him, The Sun.  LOL.

The reason he's putting pressure on you this weekend is because it's HIS BIRTHDAY.  So yeah, you and your wife and everyone else in his orbit needs to bow down and worship the great and almighty DAD.  HE's SPECIAL.  HE'S ENTITLED. 

I'm sorry he's making you ill.  I finally said "Enough is enough" because the N in my life was making it a holy hell-- affecting my mental and physical health.     Time to limit contact and let the chips fall where they may.  Go into your house, hunker down and block your dad from calling.  It's not worth sacrificing your health for someone who is a bottomless pit of need and will never change, only get worse.

Hmm yeh. Maybe his birthday has got him thinking like you said.

Oh yes it defines belief that he thinks my wife is not upset at him. He seems to blank things hes done - its weird. Even more strange is the fact that its obviously burning him up inside that someone is not doing exactly what he wants them to. He gains nothing really if my wife is speaking to him or not - hes just doing this to prove a point.

Its getting worse and worse and worse to be honest.

[p123]

Hey p123 I would encourage you to look at this like this for a moment. If you had a girlfriend that left 40+ missed calls for you over a nonissue, would she still be your girlfriend after that? Or would your eyes bug a bit and you say to yourself "OMG! She's got crazy stamped in her forehead! I better run while I still can!" Just let that thought turn over in your mind for a bit.

And yes, sounds like your dad is escalating. He is pushing you to "put your wife in her place."

Yes this is true of course.

Hmm yes his views on marriages and relationships are legendary. In the past hes said I should "have a word with her". Yes nice. Wonder why hes been divorced twice.

For years my wife and I have argued about it. Shes not the most forgiving so could have been more lenient with him. Then he pushed it and pushed and was really badly behaved so now I FULLY support her. If she doesn't want anything to do with him why should she? Its her choice and I completely understand why.

Shes fine now. She understands its a little more complicated with me and cuts me slack but she does not want anything to do with him. Its fair.

[p123]

Yeah he literally can not understand why your wife isn't catering to him because they can't see people as actual humans apart from what they can do for them. He has no concept that he's offended your wife, that she has a life of her own, that it's her decision whether she contacts him or not, and that she has feelings. She is literally a thing for attention, as are you. Neither of you matter to him apart from the attention you give.  Sorry to be blunt but this is how narcissism works.

Narc supply is behaving, is treated ok.
Narc supply is not behaving, is treated poorly.

Behaving = giving attention and complying with all demands no matter how outrageous. Aka being a doormat.

When nana gets a new neighbor, she always says "I hope they're good to me." It's their twisted view of reality. They do not see others as separate people, only a source of narcissistic supply.

Your dad wants you to do it all? This is on you now. He's been treating you this way because you've had low boundaries. How many more demands are you going to give in to? He's already draining you. I know how manipulative he is. Nana is the same. I recognize the tricks. They can't be trusted sadly. They cause chaos and confusion, drama and stress.

Ask him for his credit card then order the groceries for him.

Yes when he said this yesterday it because obvious that a NORMAL person would not get so wound up at this. So what? You're daughter-in-law hasn't made a special effort to phone you on your birthday - whats the big deal?

I have a good relationship with my MIL. She has her moments (like all old people lol) but shes pretty good. She helps out with childcare, the kids love her to bits (they couldn't give a monkeys about Grampy - because hes not interested in them - his bed lie in it). I don't phone her specially on her birthday if shes at home. Obviously, if I see her I'll wish her happy birthday.

I'd find it weird if my wife said to me "you have to phone my mother to wish her happy birthday". I'd think then hang on whats this all about?

So for him to mention this twice now and get so annoyed at it really does prove there is something not wired correctly here.

Oh and he did say he only sees her once a year. What he means is not that he misses her, its just she only bothers to see him once a year to pay homage. Its not even going to be once this year - xmas day is off - thats going to be a fun conversation. Even if we do boxing day - wife has volunteered to work so wont be there....

[p123]

Adrianna - I'm so sorry your grandmother is *still* going strong!   

I hope your remember to take time for yourself and realize she is NOT the center of the universe. 

And, being the evil little duck that I am, if your grandma thinks you do nothing for her, and tells others the same thing - that's *exactly* what I'd do.  I'd hand ALL responsibility for her over to *strangers* and let them sort it - while you walk away, and leave her to it. 

If she's going to accuse you of doing nothing for her, that's your Get Out of Jail Free Card.   

I'd do the same for your father, too - maybe they can wind up sharing a room, at the same Assisted Living. 

P123 - what I see is a toddler having a tantrum, because he feels he's losing *control* of you and the entire situation, so he's going to keep you completely off-balance, so you don't realize *you really are the one calling all the shots.*

Yes - on some level, he *does* get that.  If he needs something and you don't do it, it's not going to get done, so he'll just keep pushing buttons, hoping to make you explode at him - so he can look like a *victim* and you feel guilty as hell, so you just shut up and do as you're told.

Your father knows EXACTLY what he's doing in calling you over 40 times in two hours (he'd be BLOCKED on my phone and I wouldn't call for at least a week, after that stunt!   ), demanding visits, demanding to know what you're doing, and demanding your wife call him.  It's all about HIS CONTROL and he is *not* going to give it up.

So it falls to you to *prevent* him from being able to do these things.  Block his number once he calls more than twice, or on weekends, if you want peace and quiet, then just look at your VM somewhere around Thursday, and see if there's anything important. 

If he won't leave messages (I HATE that!  UnBPD Didi was big on that tactic, too, and all Ray would say was, "Call me back.  I gotta ask/tell you something."  ARRRRRRGH!   ), then his needs don't get seen to.  It's that simple.  If you can't SAY what you want, you don't get it -  I don't read minds. 

I suspect you don't, either. 

You might consider blocking him at all times, and call him when you *want* to - and if that's every other Sunday evening, that's *fine.* 

If you want to do his shopping, once a month - that's what you DO, and you *don't* go to the store he wants you to go to, because he likes their stuff better.  Go to the closest one, drop off the stuff, and if he complains, you can always say, "Dad.  You can  have me bring things once a month from store X, or have your own groceries delivered.  Those are your options - and I can always narrow it down for you by telling you I won't be coming back, so make up your mind." 

That's playing hardball:  Yes or no.  Take it or leave it.  Those are your options.  *And you can start limiting those options FOR them, at any time.* 

That's the *consequence* of him acting so badly - you push back, and you push back *hard.* 

If you decide to go with a permanent phone block (and I WOULD), please know your dad isn't going to wither away and die - he's got a phone, and he'll call your brother, or possibly his doctor or an ambulance, but he will NOT go without - you just won't be the one providing the supply. 

When your dad asks what you were doing that you couldn't visit him, stick to, "I was busy."  If he wants to know with what, state only, "Asked and answered - I was busy.  Change the subject or I'm ending the call." 

Wife won't call?  She's BUSY.  With what?  Asked and answered - she's busy.  Change the subject or I'm ending the call. 

I think you're going to be doing a lot of that - that was how I had to treat Didi and Ray, too.  Just because they thought they were the centers of the universe, doesn't mean they get to harsh my mellow! 

Thanks WI - I just find it so hard.
And I'm really rubbish at arguing with people. I guess Dad has worked this one out.....

One thing I could change about myself is I wish I didnt get so wound up about it.....

I did block his phone on Saturday. Its crazy  what he did but hes done it so many times.

Im betting at 505pm I'll get a call. He knows mostly I leave work at 5pm. Can guarantee he'll be ill or need the doctor or something. It will include me having to visit because "hes worried" or "might need someone to take him to hospital". No way Jose.

I agree hes upping his game because hes losing control. His birthday last week he didnt get the respect he wanted so hes kicking off now.

[Adrianna]

I understand the trips to the doctor. Nana was claiming to be dying of pneumonia a couple of weeks ago.

"I didn't think I'd make it through the night Adrianna."  Lying in bed, can barely move, whining. I said you have pneumonia? I'll call the ambulance. She got her attention, a ride to hospital, nothing wrong with her. Very slight cough, no fever, all tests clear. She's been "dying" for 10 years. There have been many hospital visits with nothing wrong.

I'm kind of at the point now where I'm just going to shut off my phone at work. She tells housekeeper she's in misery, her leg hurts, etc then the housekeeper calls the agency, they call the other agency, and I get a call. Nana knows this. She knows they will call me. She enjoys bothering me. When I tell her I got a call because she whined to the staff that she needed a doctor, she denies saying anything to the housekeeper. It's all a game. A sick game for attention. And it doesn't get better, they just get better at playing the game. They get more skilled at manipulation, and lies, and guilt trips.

I used to answer every call from her, run over there, try to help. Now when she leaves me whining messages that she's had a rough day and needs me to call her as soon as I walk in the door after working a full day, I press delete. Don't call. Honestly don't have the energy. He will drain you if you let him. I agree with shutting off the phone. Believe me they find a way to get their needs met. They will find another source of attention aka narcissistic supply. They are quite skilled at it. It doesn't have to always be you.

I've done a lot of research on narcissism and it's helped me wrap my head around their behaviors. It's a life changing process though. There's a lot to learn about their disorder. You'll never look at humanity the same way again.

I'm currently reading M.Scott Peck's People of the Lie. It's a pretty famous book which touches on narcissism. Not an easy read by any means but an important book.

[p123]

I understand the trips to the doctor. Nana was claiming to be dying of pneumonia a couple of weeks ago.

"I didn't think I'd make it through the night Adrianna."  Lying in bed, can barely move, whining. I said you have pneumonia? I'll call the ambulance. She got her attention, a ride to hospital, nothing wrong with her. Very slight cough, no fever, all tests clear. She's been "dying" for 10 years. There have been many hospital visits with nothing wrong.

I'm kind of at the point now where I'm just going to shut off my phone at work. She tells housekeeper she's in misery, her leg hurts, etc then the housekeeper calls the agency, they call the other agency, and I get a call. Nana knows this. She knows they will call me. She enjoys bothering me. When I tell her I got a call because she whined to the staff that she needed a doctor, she denies saying anything to the housekeeper. It's all a game. A sick game for attention. And it doesn't get better, they just get better at playing the game. They get more skilled at manipulation, and lies, and guilt trips.

I used to answer every call from her, run over there, try to help. Now when she leaves me whining messages that she's had a rough day and needs me to call her as soon as I walk in the door after working a full day, I press delete. Don't call. Honestly don't have the energy. He will drain you if you let him. I agree with shutting off the phone. Believe me they find a way to get their needs met. They will find another source of attention aka narcissistic supply. They are quite skilled at it. It doesn't have to always be you.

I've done a lot of research on narcissism and it's helped me wrap my head around their behaviors. It's a life changing process though. There's a lot to learn about their disorder. You'll never look at humanity the same way again.

I'm currently reading M.Scott Peck's People of the Lie. It's a pretty famous book which touches on narcissism. Not an easy read by any means but an important book.

Thanks Adrianna. EXACTLY like Dad. He does this all the time.

If I dont answer he calls brother and tells him to facebook me. Hes blocked now after an abusive incident. I got to be fair though I am sometimes impressed at how he never gives in and keeps trying....

His classic is "my legs hurt and I can't get around". Hes 85 and his health is very very good for his age. Yes his knees are bad but he can walk about 1/2 a mile. BUT he doesnt take the does of painkillers his GP gave him - because his friend said they're not good for you. You can see how much sympathy I've got if he wont listen to the experts?

Thing is my wife is a Dsitrict nurse (do they call it visiting nurse in the us?) She tells me about people stuck in bed all day, no family who visit and then theres Dad whos got friends, family etc, can get out of the house and treats everyone like complete crap. Winds me up.

[Adrianna]

Yup all sounds familiar. Nana is 97 and mobile, walks well and is mentally very sharp. However given how much attention she's getting that day, you may find her barely walking, pretending to have dementia and in "misery" from some made up ailment.  All to get attention, pity, sympathy and compassion from people who are quite honestly drained and now, in my case, repulsed  by her conscious or unconscious manipulation.

She however thinks she has it worse than most people. Has only had a couple glimpses of understanding, ever, that there are humans on the planet worse off than her and those glimpses were few and far between. She is ungrateful, unappreciative and of course entitled. It's her world and we just live in it.

Narcissists do not age well. Whatever aging gracefully is, they do the opposite.

You're in for a rough ride but it's good that you're seeing it now and understanding this person will drain you if you let him. It's all about boundaries and NOT packing your bags when he sends you on a guilt trip. Which he will do, continually, likely for as long as he lives. They do not change.

[p123]

Yup all sounds familiar. Nana is 97 and mobile, walks well and is mentally very sharp. However given how much attention she's getting that day, you may find her barely walking, pretending to have dementia and in "misery" from some made up ailment.  All to get attention, pity, sympathy and compassion from people who are quite honestly drained and now, in my case, repulsed  by her conscious or unconscious manipulation.

She however thinks she has it worse than most people. Has only had a couple glimpses of understanding, ever, that there are humans on the planet worse off than her and those glimpses were few and far between. She is ungrateful, unappreciative and of course entitled. It's her world and we just live in it.

Narcissists do not age well. Whatever aging gracefully is, they do the opposite.

You're in for a rough ride but it's good that you're seeing it now and understanding this person will drain you if you let him. It's all about boundaries and NOT packing your bags when he sends you on a guilt trip. Which he will do, continually, likely for as long as he lives. They do not change.

Reminds me of one xmas day at our house. Dad moaned and moaned all morning. Made out he was dying....
Slouched across the living room at about 1 foot a minute to prove a point. This is the guy who can walk 1/2 mile to the betting shop every day!

Complete nightmare he was. He might as well have put a sign around his neck saying "ME ME ME"

[SunnyMeadow]

It gets worse. I thought he'd forgotten about his birthday and his idea that my wife should ring him. Hes off again "So why didnt she ring me then?". I replied "Dad just leave it, don't worry about". Hes off "well I never see, she never does anything for me, I see her about once a year".

Since they say whatever they feel like saying, wouldn't it be nice to do the same in return? Such as "well dad, my wife was and still is livid that you put down our son and his birthday gift to you". "As a little boy, he thought a pop up balloon was a fantastic gift for his grandfather but you angrily told him to put it away and you eventually threw it away as if it was rubbish, right in front of him."

Also how freeing to mention that your wife isn't property or paid help, she doesn't NEED to do a darn thing for you and doesn't want to see you again. And when he bosses people around and uses guilt trips to have people visit it isn't very endearing and severely puts people off from wanting to visit at all. 

I realize using medium chill and gray rock methods are the preferred ways to cut a conversation short with disordered people. After all, if we confronted them with their own terrible treatment of others it might start WWIII. But how nice it would feel to blast them with the reality of the situation.

[p123]

It gets worse. I thought he'd forgotten about his birthday and his idea that my wife should ring him. Hes off again "So why didnt she ring me then?". I replied "Dad just leave it, don't worry about". Hes off "well I never see, she never does anything for me, I see her about once a year".

Since they say whatever they feel like saying, wouldn't it be nice to do the same in return? Such as "well dad, my wife was and still is livid that you put down our son and his birthday gift to you". "As a little boy, he thought a pop up balloon was a fantastic gift for his grandfather but you angrily told him to put it away and you eventually threw it away as if it was rubbish, right in front of him."

Also how freeing to mention that your wife isn't property or paid help, she doesn't NEED to do a darn thing for you and doesn't want to see you again. And when he bosses people around and uses guilt trips to have people visit it isn't very endearing and severely puts people off from wanting to visit at all. 

I realize using medium chill and gray rock methods are the preferred ways to cut a conversation short with disordered people. After all, if we confronted them with their own terrible treatment of others it might start WWIII. But how nice it would feel to blast them with the reality of the situation.

Of course he wont remember ANY of these incidents..... Gone under the carpet now.
Even the one from the summer where I refused to phone him when I was away (no emergency just him being him!) and he got brother to facebook message both me and my wife to tell us we HAD to call Dad. (Flying monkey brother). Then he decided to call my wife a selfish B word.

Yes of course, you're really going to have a special relationship with your daughter in law after that one! (he denies he asked brother to contact me, but he'd done the same 3/4 times before so I know the truth).

His attitude towards women is VERY VERY strange. He honestly thinks a husband can "have a word with his wife" and "sort her out". Its like the 1940s in his head I'm sure.

I can imagine telling my wife what he said last night - that she "has" to phone him because its his birthday.

[Hazy111]

I've done a lot of research on narcissism and it's helped me wrap my head around their behaviors. It's a life changing process though. There's a lot to learn about their disorder. You'll never look at humanity the same way again.

Adrianna , this is so so true. I see it everywhere now, even in me.

[Fiasco]

Of course his behavior is getting worse, its working! It's getting him what he wants which is for you to answer him. Why are you rewarding his 40 phone call tantrum? His endless calling wouldn't be bothering you if you'd blocked his numbers for the night. You're never going to change his behavior, you can only change how you respond.

[Adrianna]

I've done a lot of research on narcissism and it's helped me wrap my head around their behaviors. It's a life changing process though. There's a lot to learn about their disorder. You'll never look at humanity the same way again.

Adrianna , this is so so true. I see it everywhere now, even in me.

We all have a bit of narcissism in us. However if you think you see it in yourself, then you're not a narcissist. They don't self reflect or take responsibility for their actions.

[WomanInterrupted]

I agree with Fiasco - your dad has upped his game and *you're letting him "win."*   

What I'd do, from this point on, if I were you, is block his number *permanently* and call only when YOU *want* to - and for me, that wouldn't be often.  Not even once a month, and for five minutes, at most.   

There is nothing you *have* to do for your father - including his shopping, listening to him moan, or any of it.  If he wants or needs something, he can call and get it himself, or call your brother - but you don't have to be involved in any of it. 

Your dad is only going to keep ramping up the bad behavior - last time, it was 40 calls in 2 hours.  Next time, it might be 80 calls in 3 hours.  Does *that* sound reasonable to you? 

BTW - IME, anybody calling you that much does NOT have anything important to say.  They just want your attention, for whatever reason, and they're going to keep annoying the living hell out of you until they get it - unless you be pro-active and take countermeasures, like blocking the number.

If your dad won't leave VM's - well, that's his loss.   

He can either *learn* (I know! But stranger things have happened!  ) - or get your brother to do it for him.

Those are his options - those are the options he's left *himself* by abusing his access to you.   If he's going to take advantage of it, to harass and intimidate you, then he *loses that access.* 

Your dad WILL figure things out on his own, or find others to do things for him.  That's just how it works on Planet PD - and I don't know *where* they find these  people, but they always manage to find them.   

It wouldn't surprise me if your dad picks up a few minions at the betting office.  He'll use them up until they figure out what he's really like, and then he'll be on to the next person in line.

If your dad decides to punish you by having himself hospitalized or winds up at the ER - don't go.  Stay home.  You are NOT an on-demand visitor and you have your own life to see to - that comes *first.* 

What you *can* do is contact a social worker and explain the situation - you think your dad needs help, but he's too damned stubborn, doesn't want anybody but you doing anything for him, but you *can't* keep up with the demands, so you've blocked his number.

Can they check on him and try to convince him to go into Assisted Living - or send somebody around periodically, to make sure he doesn't fall through the cracks?

I'm not quite sure how it works in the UK,  but it sounds similar to the US.   Talk to a social worker and make your dad *their* problem - while you stay out of it completely. 

If your brother shows up at yours, don't let him in.  If he won't leave and is creating a fuss outside, call the police and have him removed from your property.   

These are all things you CAN do - you just have to give yourself *permission* to do them. 

It's OKAY to block your dad's number permanently.  He is not going to die or go without.  He's been using people for so long that he's practically got it down to an art form, and won't want for anything, for very long.

And think about it this way:  if you didn't exist, your dad would *still* manage.   

We've been conditioned for so long to think we must take care of their needs, that we often forget they'd still manage if we'd never been born - or if we took jobs halfway around the world, with spotty internet and phone service.

They *would* figure it out - they just don't WANT to because we're the easiest people to manipulate, to get what they want.

Once we make that difficult, they move onto the next easiest person on the list, and the one after that, and the one after that.  It's just another day for them, as long as they're getting what they want. 

Allow yourself to believe that, because it's *true.*  If you took a job in the US - say The Mouse wanted to hire you - you could NOT do the shopping.  You wouldn't be flying back to Blighty, on a weekly or monthly basis just because he needs bread and toilet tissue!

But your dad will not *accept that* because he doesn't CARE about you or where you live, or what you do!  He'd expect you to drop everything and fly back - and come back for every single ache and pain he has, regardless of the distance, because it's all about HIM. 

Forcing the issue - blocking his number - hammers home your point.  No, you are NOT on-call to do a thing, and you will contact him when you *want* to - and IF you want to.  You do not live to serve. 

It doesn't matter if you live half a world away, fifty miles - or 3 miles away, which was the distance Didi and Ray's place was from ours. 

Yeah - three miles.  But it may have well been an entire ocean, because *I made it that way by enforcing my BOUNDARIES.* 

Yes - I had to enforce *my rules* for *myself* - and stick to them.  I couldn't change Didi or Ray, but I could change *me* and my responses - IF I even chose to respond. 

You CAN do this, P123!