Manufacturing evidence and documenting in front of the children

[Broken heart]

Ex gets good advice I’ll give them that but how he goes about it is absurd. Hes been documenting during visitation lately were not sure why he feels it necessary to pull his phone out in the middle of a visit and voice memo himself? Or talking to someone else? I dont know... one time 6 year old said she doesnt love him and hes mean to everyone and she doesnt like that he smokes drugs and he pulls his phone out to voice memo “my daughter just told me she doesnt love me and its adult talk...” in front of her and her siblings and my father. The most recent was my father heard a commotion in the room and my son got scared and went to get his grandpa. He pulled his phone out to voice memo that the grandpa came in and that his daughter was misbehaving and was leaving early to avoid discipline. He said that in front of her and my father then proceeded to email me (as were only to communicate via email) about his side of things and how he needs more parenting time to properly discipline the special needs kid on her behaviour issues. My dd was worried hes showing pd ex in laws these thing and telling everyone shes a bad girl when she actually legitimately afraid of him and doesnt know pd in laws. I could go on and on but this is the recent stuff since mediation. I responded to his email that it was noted and will be discussed with their therapist. No reply further. This email is so out of the blue and made during his visitation too. He never contacts me. Never responds to my emails etc and didnt show up to a pre trial conference either and demands more time says its urgent but doesn't show up to court dates?

*meant to post in coparent*

[hhaw]

The stbx's failure to show up for the pretrial hearing will  hopefully be noted by the court.

What kind of person skips a pretrial hearing?  It's something his attorney should have forced him to attend.  I wonder if the attorney is pulling their hair out over the PD's failure to comply.

It's very concerning the PD seems fixated on  having more time to "properly discipline" special needs dd.   Umm... what is this PD's idea of "discipline" anyway?  What is it he wants to do to this child, in your opinion?  Discipline, IMO, is teaching a child to do better,  without judgement.  It's certainly not punishing a child, which has zero to do with teaching, IME. 

You did wll refusing to engage the PD, and I have to believe his creepy text will show this Judge something's off about the stbx. 

Keep documenting like crazy...... 

The PD knows you're documenting, obviously, and is doing his best to document as well,  IMO.   He wants to put pressure on you, and intimidate you and the kids... I think.  It seems he's felt the sting of your properly documenting his behaviors, and he believes documenting will help him.   Honestly, he seems to be going about it all wrong.   

He should be joyfully engaging with his children, remaining child focused, and appropriate, but he can't seem to DO that,  bc documenting in front of the children in that strange way is a red flag,  IME.  I hope the T sees it that way, and advocates for your children with gusto.  Dragging the kids into the adult struggle is a terrible way to spend time with the kids, and he's doing it in front of your father, a witness. 

It seems like your stbx PD is helping you build your case, IME.  I'm sorry your children are frightened and upset by his behaviors.  You seem to be on top of things, and doing all you can to protect them.

[athene1399]

I agree with HHaw. I think your ex is trying to document and put his spin on things, but he's not quite doing it right IMO. I also agree about the "proper discipline" thing. That just sounds weird. If he brings that up in court I would like to have him explain his definition of "proper discipline". BPDBM tried this in court as well. She would say things like "SO can't can't home from work early enough to be with SD." They asked her when she gets home from work and it was after SO gets home. So the point she was trying to make didn't even make sense.

I think part of it with your ex is he is trying to get in your head IMO. Like "see I can document too and you guys are doing everything all wrong..." I would just keep doing what you are doing. I also think your reply to him was perfect

I responded to his email that it was noted and will be discussed with their therapist.

. You're showing you are working on the "issue". Also, you responded, so he can't say you ignored him.

i also hope it looks bad for your ex that he skipped that one hearing. I hope this is all over for you soon and that things work out. Court can be exhausting and stressful IMO.

[Penny Lane]

Wow, that is bizarre.

If I were you I would not worry that he's setting himself up well for court. It seems like a judge would see how strange this all is. If you're worried about it, maybe your dad can privately document how these statements don't match the reality of what he's seeing. (I assume your dad is supposed to be supervising visitation?)

I'm sorry this is tough on your daughter. It must be so confusing for her to hear all this stuff. I hope you can reassure her that she's not in trouble, that you don't know why he's saying this stuff either but that you're proud of her for speaking her truth.

I don't even know what else to say, like I said this is so bizarre. He's sure making a record of something, but it's NOT that the kids need to be with him more, that's for sure.

[Broken heart]

Thank you all for your responses. I wanted to add that my father counters what he’s said in the email in that the ex stated he “got down to her level and used words and explained calmly that she doesn’t get away with this stuff at school so why are you trying it here?” My father was a supervisor but now the supervisions are lifted but still at my fathers. He's in the other room (which we converted into a playroom and made comfortable for the children) and stepped in over a month ago to supervise again when his grandchildren asked him to. They asked him to because they were afraid. An earlier visit ex had screamed at the kids neighbour friend and made her run away crying. He was screaming about how it was HIS time and he doesn't share. There were multiple witnesses to that altercation. The ex had a major reaction to his presence then and had to subsequently “document” that he came when my father heard a “commotion”. Ex states that dd was throwing chairs too and my father did not see that. There were no overturned chairs nor was he down at her level. My father explained that ex was instead “towering over” dd and looking angry and frightening her and that the behaviour ex says he was exhibiting was indeed my fathers reactions. He was describing my fathers response but said it was his own.

[sevenyears]

Could your Ex be documenting in front of you and the children as a means to intimidate or control you or them? (or to use them to control you?). He clearly wants you to know that he is documenting everything (with his twist) and possibly trying to scare you.

[hhaw]

::Raising hand!!::

Oh oh oh! 

NANNY CAM!

Is it legal in your State to record in the home?  It might be legal everywhere for certain KINDS of recording?

I'd certainly check it out, and I'd consider videoing or recording what's being said.  Your dad hopefully is keeping a detailed journal, and maybe even getting statements from the grandchildren's crying running friend, and parents about what exactly happened the day the PD yelled, and chased away.

The devil's in the details, IME. 

Staying on top of documenting, and being thorough makes court easier, quicker and more efficient.

[Free2Bme]

My ex did this with our 4 children, but instead of voice recordings he wrote all kinda stuff on paper like lists of things he's done for them (stuff any parent does for their children), repairs he has made to the house dating back over a span of years, gifts he has given to me, etc. and then made a copy for each of the kids and me.        It was all an attempt to build up his facade, "look at how great I am, bow down to me". 

In regards to this business about recording memo's to himself in front of children is just a scare tactic and likely stems from him feeling he is losing control over the situation.  I would be really tempted to equip the children with their own recording devices before going on visitation and let them record their own memos in dads presence!  That might put an end to it. 
Of course I am not serious, just poking fun at the absurdity of PD behaviors.

[Broken heart]

Recordings from me are inadmissible unless consented to here. However it would be funny to have the kids record him lol he has been recording himself fake laughing and "making them be happy" for pictures as my dd says. And skype with his pd family too. He forces them to do that and they obviously dont like it and have said that to him directly which he responds with "too bad thats life!"  The kids say he doesn't respect their "no" and has zero boundaries and is always "popping their bubble". We speak on terms of body boundaries and thats the term they use for theirs. Its like a bubble surrounds them and thats their body bubble boundary and you're the boss of that. So they totally get it. Even the 3 year old is learning to shout "I dont like that please stop!" It would be funny to have them record their dad and say they're making notes though 🤣

[hhaw]

So, the PD is recording himself.  I wonder if your father can record his own memos and just happen to have the raging PD in the background as he's doing this?

I mean, it's not the goal to record the PD, and maybe the PD's ambient rage will be allowed IF the recording is being played specifically for another purpose?

Just a thought... and picturing erveryone's faces as they can hear the rage in the background, while your father is recording his experience with feeling helpless,  and frustrated with his inability to protect his Grandchildren in this situation.  I mean, is  it illegal to record ourselves making a memo... like the PD is doing, with background stuff going on?

Not sure.  Ask your attorney. 

[Penny Lane]

Could your Ex be documenting in front of you and the children as a means to intimidate or control you or them? (or to use them to control you?). He clearly wants you to know that he is documenting everything (with his twist) and possibly trying to scare you.

I think sevenyears is totally spot-on here.

It would be funny to have them record their dad and say they're making notes though 🤣

LOL!

I love your boundary talks.

I don't think this behavior is going to get him very far in court. And it's clearly not improving his relationship with the kids. AND it sounds like the kids have a really healthy view of it, or as much as a kid so young can have a healthy view of a toxic parent.

I think eventually this problem will resolve itself. The kids won't want to see him and eventually he'll realize he's not getting the supply he wants from them.

All very sad - fortunately they have you!

[Whiteheron]

You know, grandparents record their grandchildren doing normal kid stuff all the time...what a coincidence it would be if grandpa was recording little DD reading him a story while PD dad raged in the background.

[Broken heart]

Unfortunately I have no lawyer now. Im working on that. I have another pre trial conference next week however the custody evaluation wont begin until mid to late October so will not be ready in time for trial dates set in mid November. I want this to end. We recently started with the therapist too so theres not much there... yet. DD did recently disclose the pinning situation that happened early last spring and her sister asked her if their dad recently did that again last visit and she said yes he tried but she ran away and called for her grandpa. Her brother was scared too and went to get grandpa in the other room. It was his presence that spurred another voice memo in front of my father and 6dd and 3ds.

[hhaw]

I honestly think it's legal to install nanny cams in public rooms of the house.  In all 50 States. 

I think there's something to consider here.

[athene1399]

I think the hidden camera is something you should look into as well. See what the state laws are around it (if you are in the US). Or look up if hidden recordings are something you can use in court. You don't want to pay for the camera if you can't use it as evidence. But if you can use it, it could be a good idea.

[Broken heart]

Im congested and feeling like crap but need to get down to the courthouse to file then serve ex lawyer. This is never ending. Wish me luck. I do not want to leave the house today.

[Whiteheron]

Good luck and feel better!

[hhaw]

Get it done, BH!

Then rest, and plenty of fluids: )

[Broken heart]

Turns out I didnt need to go lol oh well. I managed to pick up the session notes from the kids old therapist and my counselling session notes too. So not all a bust. Thanks for the good vibes everyone. Im finally relaxing.