Difference between asking for help vs. using manners and gossiping vs. warning

[TriedTooHard]

Hi everyone, I could use some help with figuring out the difference between asking others for help versus using good manners/boundaries.  And also the difference between gossip and someone trying to warn others.

I recently reached my limit as to how much I can help out the parents of my son's friend.  After years of providing more rides, being more attentive, taking this friend on outings, and having this friend and his siblings over while my house gets trashed, I stopped planning activities with these people.  My son asks me why he can't go to their house or why he couldn't go to do the fun activity he heard they were doing, and I tell him that we shouldn't invite ourselves to those things, we need to get an invitation. 

As a recovering co-dependent, I know that they can't possibly imagine when we need help, so I know enough to ask them for help when needed.  However, we've arranged our life so we only need help in minimal situations.  And to give this family credit, they have responded positively when I ask for help. 

But when we don't need help and my son would just like to be included, isn't that different?  I'm not sure if its healthy boundaries to ask to include him after all these years of this pattern.  When these other parents are home and perfectly capable of having kids over, they don't.  When they're available to give kids a ride to/from an activity, if they don't hear from others to coordinate car-pooling, they don't.  Instead, they just show up and give only their kids a ride.

And that brings up a related issue - years ago, other parents in the community warned me about this family.  They also noted how these kids seem neglected and are constantly sick with some virus, infection, or rash.  I didn't know anyone that well, and I classified this as gossip.  I didn't listen, thinking it didn't matter, but my son became really close friends with this kid and now here I am, looking to sort it all out.  When I first met this family, they were more attentive and wanted us to join their church.  When we didn't, they assured me it didn't matter.  I thought we were all being non-judgmental about our religious beliefs, but now I see them becoming more active in their church and wonder if that's driving a wedge between them and those of us who don't belong.   

I see how this family is not a good match.  I'm just looking for ways to help my son navigate this.    And me too so he doesn't think I'm isolating him, judging others, or controlling his friendships.  I have helped him develop other friendships, but he's starting to ask more and more questions about this family.

[StayWithMe]

You got a lot of issues here, so I'll address a few.

When people tell you stuff, it could be true so I would listen and cross check that information.  The word gossip may have a negative connotation but I don't see that type of info as any different that any other information.  What do you call info on references and recommendations.  When the police go around investigating, they get tips and it's their job to find corroborating info.  This is why it is important to be concerned about one's overall reputation because your reputation is what determines whether a story sticks or not  when corroborating info is not easy to find.

Your friend's son, does he come a disadvantaged family?  How is it that you take extra interest in him?  It's ok to set up new boundaries but do be consistent in applying them going forward.

[TriedTooHard]

Thanks StayWithMe.  You bring up an important point about reputation.   And consistently applying boundaries.

You also ask an important question.  My son met this kid years ago when I first started to seriously work on my codependency.  Back then, I was learning to listen to kids about friend preferences, so I did.  It mostly served my family well. 

I also learned when to step in and make adult decisions, but had a hard time with this kid because he and his siblings remind me of me and my siblings when we were that age.  Like me, they do not come from a disadvantaged family.  Both parents are educated and have good jobs and seem to do all the right things on paper.  Yet, the kids are still neglected in their hygiene and health.  As they get older, they seem to be angry and ill-mannered.  I've since learned that its one thing to help a family like this if a real tragedy were to strike them, but in the meantime, I can't fix what these kids are going through.   When I was a kid going through similar, it was helpful to experience caring adults in the community.  And I have been a caring adult to them, but enough is enough.
 

[Wilderhearts]

It sounds like you can really empathize with these kids, and want to give back to the community the way the community gave to you when raised in a family with challenges.  I know my teachers and coaches, and healthy family friends, made all the difference in my life, just by having a presence that was different from my uPDf's.  However, from what you've said, this family doesn't know how to initiate reciprocation, and it's not your responsibility to teach them, or to put in extra effort to ensure they do reciprocate.

A T once asked me, almost a decade ago, "do you help others with the expectation that they will return the favour?"  My answer was no - but the truth is that I treat others as I would like to be treated - thinking it means I'll be treated the way I want to be treated...and it just doesn't work like that!  I still struggle with this, and I think it stems from taking hurts personally, because our FOOs brainwashed us into believing we have the power to affect everything negatively, so if we're treated poorly it's our fault, and we have the power to make others treat us better (by treating them as the best).  But we don't.

This is where I've learned, when someone shows me that they can't treat me as well as I treat them, that it's time to invest less energy in that relationship, and more energy in people who also invest their energy in me.  But it's more complicated since this involves your child's friendships.  I'm not a parent, but based on my own social dynamics, I would never ask two of my friends to include me more if they chose to hang out without me - it was their boundary at the time to invest just in their personal relationship (and being an introvert I support my friends getting to know each other one a 1-to-1 basis).

It seems that this family isn't reciprocating voluntarily either in terms of helping out with the kids, or maintaining friendships between their kids and your son.  For most people, this would naturally distance them from people who, unlike those of us with codependent tendencies, won't try to compensate for their lack of effort.  Yes, it's sad that the kids don't seem to be doing well, but I'm really glad to hear you say 'enough is enough.'

[TriedTooHard]

Thank you Wilderhearts.

our FOOs brainwashed us into believing we have the power to affect everything negatively, so if we're treated poorly it's our fault, and we have the power to make others treat us better (by treating them as the best).  But we don't.

This is very well put.  Someone once pointed out that this is an example of grandiose thinking.  Up to that point, I thought that NPD grandiosity dealt with fame and fortune.  It was surely a big moment when I realized the grandiosity can also be about us having the power to affect everything negatively.  Its simply not possible.  Its something I need to be reminded of from time to time.