My son had PD tendencies

[Arkhangelsk]

Guys.....

I love my children.  Deeply, profoundly, passionately.  My almost 10 year old son, however.... This child is hurting my heart.

He does demanding, controlling, manipulative things.  His behavior towards his brother is excretiable.  If he was an adult, I would go NC with him for these things.  But he is a child and it is my job to parent him.  When I get through to him about this stuff, he weeps.  He works to improve.  He wants to be better.  I hope that if I do a really good job, the interventions I am offering now will help him be a functional human, unlike his father.

My younger son (almost 8) is a gentle soul.  My therapist says I am doing a good job helping him be resilient.  But today I was sitting here thinking, maybe my older son will take it too far.  And what will I do?

[Penny Lane]

Oh, friend, take a breath.

We have been there and I'm happy to report: This is normal. (This was confirmed by my therapist.) 10 year olds are SUPPOSED to demand things, try to control things, be manipulative, treat their younger siblings badly. Remember, kids and teens can't even be diagnosed with a PD because how would someone even distinguish this from developmentally normal behavior?

We went through this with lying. Both kids went through a lying phase around age 7 and DSS went through a more sophisticated. manipulative lying phase, probably right around age 10. DSD will do the same, I am certain. H was so worried, like, beside himself. HE was all, THEY ARE TURNING OUT TO BE LIARS LIKE THEIR MOM WHAT DO WE DO???

My therapist said, DO NOT freak out, this is normal, treat it like you would any other parenting issue. So we had some lovingly imposed consequences, mostly centered around not believing the kid in question if we couldn't verify what they said, and the lying subsided. They do not seem to be on track to be liars for their whole lives.

I'm sorry to report that if our experience is any indication, you're going to see more PD like behaviors as he enters his preteen years. I guess we should've expected it - I always said BM acts like if you gave a 14 year old an adult amount of power. So it follows that a close to 14 year old would act like her - that's the level she's on. If that makes sense.

DSS is 12. He is the sweetest kid, really just like one of the kindest people you will meet. So it's really whiplash when that teenage defiance comes out, and comes out all at once in a giant tsunami. I know you love your son and H and I love DSS, but having a preteen in the house is tough. It just is,for everyone, even if there are no PDs their lives. And it seems like it's going to get worse before it gets better. I take some comfort in knowing that I was probably equally tough for my parents to handle at that age. And I'm pretty sure I don't have a PD.

So, it's normal, but it's not that you don't take it seriously! You do. These are not acceptable behaviors and it's your job as their mom to show them that through words, actions and consequences. Some kids are more severe than others and will require more intervention, therapy, etc. But even with an extreme case, all is not lost. Don't despair that these actions at age 10 are dooming him to turn out like his dad. Keep on being the thoughtful mom you are and working with him on growing into the kind, healthy adult you know he can be. If your gut is telling you something is really, really wrong, worse than normal preteen stuff, you know how to escalate to a therapist or someone smarter than me. But even if you have to increase your interventions and involve professionals, you've caught it very early and have lots of time to help him correct the problems.

Oh and a side note, as we're working with DSS on this sort of thing, I think watching his mom experience the consequences of her own actions has been a really important part of his decision to not want to be like that. That's a comforting thought, to me. He sees that not only is it bad for those around you it's also not a good way to get what you want.

I'm not saying things aren't really tough for your kids because they are, and you have a very hard job. I'm just saying that this isn't a sign that you aren't succeeding but rather an opportunity to really go deeper on the lessons you've been working on with the kids.

Edited to add: One of the biggest problems with all this was that H seemed to be getting really triggered when DSS lied to him the same way BM does/did. It was really tough for him to come out of that headspace. And it's understandable! But that's why I say to take a breath - a child doing it is very different than an adult doing it.

[Arkhangelsk]

Penny Lane,

This helps me so much.  I am crying at my desk.  Thank you for your love and support.  I am going to come back and re-read this when I feel ready to think about strategy. 

Right now my heart hurts.  I think I am triggered, like you mentioned. 

My son assaulted his brother yesterday - punched him in the face.  And then played a very cruel prank involving feces on his brother.  Which he lied about for 25 minutes with a perfectly straight face.  The only this he seems to care about is that I do not tell anyone exactly what he did, to avoid his own embarrassment.  Add in the 100 other little incursions that happen in any given day with an oppositional kid with ADHD and I am wiped out. 

[Penny Lane]

 

It's ok to be overwhelmed and it's ok to say to the kid "I'm so upset I don't know what to do about this. Let's talk later." (As an added bonus, this actually is pretty effective at making sure their mind runs wild with all the potential consequences, and sometimes it spurs them to come up with solutions to fix what they did.)

I get why you're exhausted and I get why you're alarmed. But I also know that my siblings and I did some of the same things to each other (punching in the face, lying about stuff with a straight face) right around that age. We all have great relationships now and, again, pretty sure none of us have PDs.

If/when you want to strategize about what to do next, we are here for it, and in the meantime, sending virtual hugs your way.

[athene1399]

SO and I would sometimes freak over this with SD. I think we sometimes forget that we often say that PDs act like kids. So when the kids act like PDs we kind of freak. But as Penny said, it's pretty natural.

But your son is trying to get his needs met with this behavior. So maybe try to find out what that is and if there's a way you can teach him to get his needs met in a better way. Like if his brother is upsetting him, can you teach them to talk it out? Or teach the older one what to do when he is mad instead of punch his brother? Maybe he just doesn't feel listened to. If his behavior was embarrassing to him, maybe remind him to think of this before he acts. "If anyone knows what you did, would you mind?"And try to think of that before he acts. Probably easier said than done, but as he works on it he will get better. Maybe give examples from your own life of what you want to do when you are upset, but then you think about it and handle it differently instead. Like try to model good behavior by telling him what you do. 

You can't diagnose anyone with a PD until early adulthood becasue personality is thought to be still forming until then because the mind is still maturing. People with PDs get "stuck" at a child-like maturity, so they often cope with problems like a child would. They often aren't taught coping skills and have emotionally reactive role models, so learn bad behavior. 

And knowing all this doesn't make it any less frustrating. I hope his behavior starts to get better.