Confrontation and lack of guilt

[Whatthehey]

In the past, when arguing with my stbxOCPDh, I felt guilty and let that guilt eat at me until I went back to him and begged and apologized until I felt he was no longer angry.  Then the FOG lifted and today happened.  I am writing now to put today's argument in a good light.  Deep down I feel so much pain and I have struggled with tears all day.  But I know that what I did was right.

We met with a realtor to get an appraisal on the house.  After she left, he asked me if had put together my expenses because he was evaluating my alimony offer (via my lawyer) and wanted to make sure that he would be able to offer an amount back that would cover my expenses.  During that discussion, I kinda, well did, whine about the cost of caring for our teenage son.  And how I was worried because I knew that when the time for college came I would be the one shouldering the cost of sheets, computers, apartments, etc.  In the past, he has been very angry about how much I spent on Target college dorm sheets.  It was a whole thing.

I could see he was kinda feeling a self congratulatory - like now she see's how much the kids cost.  Like I never saw it before?  Of course I did!  That doesn't mean I'm not going to spend it! If he is hungry, you feed him.  Duh.  Then he said, and I quote "You don't think I'm going to let you fail do you?  That I will let you go without?"  Now looking at that sentence I can see the condensention.    And in the past, I would have clapped back in self defense.  But this time, I said what I really felt.  "Yes.  I think you would dance on my grave if you could."  He then asked me to leave.

I stood up and looked right at him and told him something I have never said.  "Yes you have a mental illness - a personality disorder and I don't think you fully accept it.  I gave you everything.  My soul and my self.  I am empty and a baby learning to crawl again.  You think I was selfish when I left.  That I didn't think of you.  Of course I thought of you.  But now I know that you have the capacity to make decisions regardless of your illness.  And you choose to hurt me.  If you were really happy, you wouldn't have hurt me."

Then I left.  No more said.

I am sobbing as I write this - it felt so very final and hurtful to say that to him.  And I don't know that he really gets it.  I'm not sure he ever will.

But I said it and I don't take it back.  I said what I feel and I spoke my truth.  There is a first for everything.

[11JB68]

WTH, there's a lot here and I can't do it justice....
One piece of what you said though, resonated for me in particular.
My uOCPDh also says that I don't think of him, don't think about him etc, and during a recent fight I told him that I found those comments to be insulting, given that I am always thinking about him, always doing his errands, chores etc. He still didn't get it.

[Whatthehey]

11JB68,

Thank you for replying.

I know what you mean about the "you don't think about me" manipulation.  Then I rush to change everything I do because I need to show him how much I love him.  Sigh.  Just another move on his part to manipulate my feelings and actions. 

I know looking back to yesterday that I did JADE - I argued.  I guess the difference is that I didn't try to get him to see my side.  I didn't care if he did.  I just stated my truth and left.  I should've been a grey rock like all my previous interactions.  I should've been more prepared for what was a potential emotional hazard.  But he had been nice lately and I was lulled by his good behavior.

Unfortunately, no contact is not in the cards.  We share three children and one grandchild.  We will have to come to some agreement or arrangement.  At least I hope for their sake we do.

[11JB68]

WTH... It is so hard to mc and gr all thetime. We are human. Yes, when they are acting nicely/normal etc We do get lulled by that.
On the other hand as much as I know that mc and not jadeing helps keep peace...sometimes I do feelthe need to speak my mind. I don't believe it will change him or his behavior, But sometimes it feels good to speak your truth.

[1footouttadefog]

It's good you have clarity that he will never really feel what you feel and understand you.

[Wilderhearts]

I know looking back to yesterday that I did JADE - I argued.  I guess the difference is that I didn't try to get him to see my side.  I didn't care if he did.  I just stated my truth and left.

That's fantastic, WTH.  To me, JADE is our end of a circular argument, in which the pwPD is DARVO'ing (deny, attack, reverse victim-and-offender).  You didn't get sucked into that, *at all.*  More importantly, what you said, you said for yourself.

If he does try and use this later to DARVO (it's easy to play the victim when someone's labelled you as mentally ill), just slap him with a good old "well you can't control what people think of you." (I actually learned that line from a pwOCPD when she was frantically trying to maintain self-control when she realized I had seen her true self  )

[Whatthehey]

Thank you Winderhearts and 1footouttadefog,

I thought I was doing well but this past weekend has been very difficult.  My daughter came home from out of state with my granddaughter.  She texted to arrange a breakfast over the weekend.  We met for a lovely hour over breakfast and I was able to spend a little with my grand daughter and hear about my daughter's semester at school.

I then find out that my husband had them all weekend and even got a chance to take to a pumpkin farm.  When he picked up my son today for a football game, I saw the pumpkin farm admittance bracelet.  My heart absolutely dropped and I instantly braced myself.  I said sarcastically, "Is that from the pumpkin farm?  You took our grand child to the pumpkin farm?  That's great since I got to spend a quality hour with her."  And her smirked.  Really smirked.  I wanted to hit him.

And really hit her - my daughter.

I feel so very lost and alone right now.  So very alone.

[Wilderhearts]

That's hard to take.  I've heard a fair deal on this forum, though, about how pwPDs try to take something that their target values, not because they value it/want it themselves, but to exert power over others (e.g., taking your "spot" on the couch, taking your favourite blanket so they dog will cuddle them instead, taking your favourite mug). 

That smirk tells you everything - he may have been using the kids/grandkids to bait you into reacting.  The thing is, you do have quality time with them.  He needs gimmicks like pumpkin farms to make it look like they're having enjoyable family time.

What was the message behind your sarcasm there?  Was it because you know how ridiculous he is for what he's doing, or because you were upset that he had more time with them?

[PeanutButter]

I am sorry if this is harsh! I say this with compassion that you are stuck in this painful dynamic with those you love.
IMO I dont think you can ever win as long as this 'competition' in your mind that x is getting more time with GC than you and x was abusive so you should be the one who gets more time continues. I dont think you are ever going to get your daughter to agree with you that she should not spend time with her father. I dont think that daughter can enjoy talking with you when you focus on trying to get her to admit that her father doesnt deserve the visitation time she gives him.
I would ask myself:
Why do you want to hit your daughter?
Why do you want to spend time with your daughter while you are feeling this angry at her?
Do you think she can feel the underlying resentment from you even when you are having a lovely hour?

[Whatthehey]

Peanutbutter,

You bring up some very valid points.  Time has passed and my anger has dissipated.  I wrote a letter to her and just saved it in my never going to mail file.  It helped bleed the feelings.

I guess I wanted to spend with her is because I have always felt close to her.  I thought, perhaps selfishly, that she would understand why I left - more than anyone.  I do feel anxious around her now - I feel judged and I feel her resentment.  Her anger with me that has been growing even before I left her dad. 

I want to get some of that closeness back - the joy we once had we each other.  I won't and I need to realize that.  Thank you for that.

She needs time.  I need time.  And your right, she probably can feel all the resentment.

I just really miss my GC.  They lived with us since she was born.  I miss seeing her everyday.  Not talking to her weekly is really hard.

[PeanutButter]

 Whatthehey, hi again. Im glad you got something out of my experience.
I only share with people on here (even tho i pretty much read EVERYTHING) when i think I have commonalities with them. I dont know you but some bits you shared here felt like some things I had too.
Everything I say is based on my experience and what I have witnessed in real life situations.
Since you responded back so openly and graciously, I feel moved to share one more line of thought. It started processing in my mind after reading some of HHAW's posts here on the forum, eventually tied in with having learning about love languages : (new info for me)
I realized that I had expectations of people, relationships, and situations on an almost unconscious level. I dont know if this is normal, a flea, or even a pd trait. It was something that while not in my awareness was causing hurt and angry feelings quite regularly for me. Its hard to explain so ill just give an exmple of how i would use it if i were in your situation
"I wanted to spend time with her is because I have always felt close to her." so here I would examine the "felt close" and list the specifics of what 'close' looked, sounded, and felt like (Your definition of 'close') with you and your daughter.
"I thought, perhaps selfishly,(i dont think this is selfish btw)that she would understand why I left - more than anyone." Here I would examine "understand". Make a list of what her 'understanding' might look & sound like if she would do it?
"I do feel anxious around her now - I feel judged and I feel her resentment."  Here I would list what resentful/judgemental behaviors or words come to mind. Or what LACK of behaviors or words from her feel resentful/judgemental.
"I want to get some of that closeness back - the joy we once had we each other." Here already defined what close means so I would list the ways "joy" manifested for you and daughter.
Now with the more of an awareness of what your wants/needs from daughter are compare that to what you have actually been getting from her.
I am not very articulate so I know this may make no sense to you. Im sorry if that is the case. If you understand it but it has nothing to do with where you are at in your healing journey then please disregard it all.
I have several unsent emails in my DRAFT folder. I type letters that say ALL the things Id really like to say but can't I also 'bleed' my anger this way.