a PD sister won't allow contact with nieces

[Olivia]

I'm wondering if my prayers led me to this web site.

I suppose I could tell the whole sordid story about my PD sister, but the upshot is that she won't let me see my nieces anymore. They're 14 and 12, and I know it's hurting the older one in particular.  My sister says it's because she's afraid that I'll say bad things about her to them, but she knows there's no history of that whatsoever. And she should know that I would never EVER do that no matter how bad things were between us!  But she carries this constant rage within her, particularly towards me, and I don't get it. Over the years, I've tried to ask her what the problem is, but there's never an answer.

Our mother died over a year ago, and things have really gotten bad since then. Her mania can go into full swing at times, like having my mom's services without me. I was in the hospital with appendicitis as my mom was dying (as if that wasn't awful enough), but then she went ahead and had the services without consulting me. There were many things like that that occurred around that time that would infuriate me, but I would keep my mouth shut so that I could continue to see the girls. It never worked anyway...big surprise.

There's just no talking to her about anything as she's this constant seething volcano, just like my dad. He's in hospice care right now, and I'll be damned if I'm going to put up with yet another family member who projects nothing but loathing towards me.

But the problem is...what do I do about my nieces?  I know there's no legal recourse, but I'm sick about this. She's using them as revenge.

Ironic that as my dad is about to die that this erupts with my sister. Unfortunately, she's also Power of Attorney, so she'll most likely drag out the probate.  It's all so terribly awful. I feel like the walking wounded all the time these days. Any advice?

[SerenityCat]

Welcome!

I am so sorry that you are going through this.

In your situation I would need to stay away from the PD sister. I would have to really focus on my own well being. I'd stop asking to see the nieces, I would not talk to the sister about them unless she brought them up in a calm conversation.

I'd consider time away from the nieces as time to prepare. I'd work on myself and become a good role model. Then, when they are able, if and when they want to, the nieces can contact me.

I'd not give my sister anything to bounce against, I would not participate in any drama. I'd let all this go and be busy with myself.

[Starboard Song]

Serenity Cat isn't wrong.

But I am a fan of engagement first. I would ask your sister to visit with you, to discuss the situation.

In that visit with just the two of you,  you can explain that you'd never intentionally damage her relationship with her children, and propose getting together as a group: you'd enjoy the company of her lovely girls, they would benefit from family,  and the structured environment would provide your sister confidence that nothing unpleasant was being said.

[SerenityCat]

Starboard Song's idea is great. I second that motion. 

[all4peace]

And I third it.

DH's family hasn't been safe for our family, and our DD was singled out by EVERYone in the family.
We were (and still are) ok with us all spending time together with DH's family, but they only ever tried to get her alone.

You can't really talk someone out of a feeling of distrust, but you can start to (possibly) rebuild trust by being visibly trustworthy in the presence of your sister and her daughters. The bond between parent and child is primal, and while it's not always logical (and sometimes perhaps not even accurate or fair), we parents will do pretty much anything to protect that bond. That's a type of protection and fear that needs to be acknowledged and respected, not fought against.

May I ask how you know this estrangement is hurting your older niece? If it's because you're in private conversation with her about her mother's actions, I would strongly advise against that.
When you ask your sister why she is angry at you, she stays silent?

I am sorry for your hurt. Family estrangement is so complicated and painful.

[Starboard Song]

I feel the need to add something. If you are unable to maintain a relationship with your sister, if civil relations between you and her are not possible, for my part, I believe you have to accept that you are likely to lose your relationship with your nieces. Maybe, if it heads that direction, you can do better. Maybe you can succeed in maintaining a relationship with them. But I think it is smart to approach these situations with our eyes wide open.

When my in-laws declared that they no longer wanted any relationship of any form with me and my wife, I believe it was the righteous thing for us to end all their ordinary correspondence with my family. That means they lost all contact with my ds12. And as he turns 17,  they now have not known him or communicated with him in any way for over four years. I don't believe the righteousness of that decision hinged on who it was who had the personality disorder.

My point then, is just to be very careful. And understand that she will remain their mom whatever comes of your relationship with her.

Bless your heart. I am so sorry that you are having to deal with the struggle.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Hi Olivia. I am sorry for your dad's current illness and the difficult dynamics with your sister and nieces. I do believe the best thing you can do at this point is to perhaps pull back a bit from your sister, do not engage in her drama, and stay calm and focus on your well being. Become a good role model for your nieces, even if it is from a distance. When they get older, they may very well reach out to you and at that point you can engage and respectfully refrain from negative talk of your sister/their mother to them. Be a listener for them, not a talker.   
I think it is somewhat common for our PD siblings to want to get between us and their children out of fear of losing the very kids they tend to lean on for emotional support and un-abiding love. I believe if we have relationships with their children it is a bit of a threat to them. That is just my opinion and what I experienced with my sister.  My sister threatened to uninvite me to her son's wedding last year because she did not want me around him since she and I were not speaking.  Anyway, it is a heartbreak, but perhaps you will find some comfort in knowing you are not alone. Focus your energies on your good emotional and mental health. 

[Froggy]

I feel your pain, this happened to me with my sister's kids. They were not allowed contact and it was very painful. But move the clock on a few years... I now have a really good relationship with my nephews. As they have started to come to realise she has BPD or APD it has been helpful for them to have an older family member to talk to. It's lovely when they visit (without her knowledge, as they still have contact with her) and although the topic is difficult we do support each other. But often we just have fun like normal family! So I guess I'm saying, if you do need to protect yourself from your sister and this means you don't see your nieces, don't despair because you may well re-establish a good relationship with them in time.
I remember when I first saw one nephew again and he said "she's difficult" (usual way of describing PD family member to outsiders) and I said "I do understand" and he looked at me and said "you do understand!" Realisation dawning, looking at me with new eyes "You really do understand!"
It's so priceless to have other family members who really get what is going on. So hold on in there, could be in a few years you and your nieces will be a source of great support and comfort to each other.

[lostsister]

I am sorry that you are going through this.  There are others of us in similar situations.  I cannot say it has been easy.  It is damn hard at times.....very emotional.....

My sister doesn't allow contact between me and my parents with my nephews either.  She said she was not the cause...it was their choice.  She made the mistake of sending me a text meant for them - 'lostsister is emailing now; don't respond'.  That confirmed what we had really known all along - she was the cause of them not answering phone calls, emails, or text messages.

It has been a very hard....very hard 7 years.  The first year we mailed them gift cards for birthday and Christmas.  She later told someone that we still gave her ex-husband gifts but didn't give her kids anything (we had subscribed to magazines for him for his birthday; before all of this started - we had a 3 year subscription - one of the boys saw 'gift from x' on the label, made a picture, and showed to their mom).  I then sent an email and text to both nephews and copied their mom.  We had mailed gift cards....and didn't know why they didn't get them.  From that point until today, we carry gifts to their father and let him give to the children.  We know they are getting them.

It is hard...and still is hard.  To realize that we saw those boys every week of their lives....and then are cut out.  We last saw them in 2015 at graduation.

It is her pride and joy to control them and make them have no contact with us.  She knows that hurts us to our core.  I've finally got mother to realize that she cannot say (on the occasion that she talks to her) that she misses the boys.  You cannot let her know.  She gets nothing but pure joy and satisfaction.

[bgirl12]

I'm so sorry you have gone through all of that. Big hugs. Please consider this behavior may not last forever. Things always change with PD people.
Your nieces will grow up and they can pick up the phone and call you. Most teens and young adults are strapped to their phones and social media. My nieces do not call me or reach out. But those families never blocked me. It is not always your reputation either. There is something about being blocked from a relative, though, that you always knew was a nice person that makes you want to see them. You have to hang in there and be ready for the call from your nieces. And since you pray, I encourage you to do that. I don't have kids and my nieces and nephew are all I have and I put soooo much into them. Just know you did your best for the lives of children and it is their life what they do with it and try not to be offended if they don't come around. Your sister doesn't consider you at all and I am so sorry about that. It may not change unless there is something in it for her. So wait it out. She will be selfish on you again, I imagine. And be ready to work that to your advantage ,not to demand anything from her, just a chance to have a moment with your nieces. Never say a word to her or her kids about her behavior because it's not like she will do a 180 because you mentioned it. You have to grey rock with her and be ready. You could very well see them soon enough.

[guitarman]

Abusers are all about power and control. Your sister wants to have the ultimate power and control over what you care most about, that is access to your nieces. She is the gatekeeper of your happiness.

It's all so sad that she puts her petty jealousy and revenge before the feelings and emotional wellbeing of her own children.

Whatever happens stay calm. She maybe trying to provoke you to rage and to get angry at her. Then she would play the victim and justify why you shouldn't have access to your nieces. It's all a wicked, cruel, twisted game.

Best wishes

Guitarman X

[lilwren]

wow reading that made my heart hurt.  i went through something similar with my sister and my niece a few weeks ago.  she has my niece believing that I'M the monster.  just like me, when i was 14, my niece won't learn the truth until she's an adult.  i'm 56 and my sister is 52 ... i've spent my whole life getting her out of jams.  my mother was an alcoholic monster who neglected and abused us and my sister has followed in her footsteps.  i can only hope that as my niece gets older she will start to make up her own mind about her mother and me. 

my mom died two years ago and my sister let her 22 year old son move into her house.  they're in virginia, (I'm in FL) and i have no idea why it didn't go through probate, which would have divided her estate between my sister and i, but i didn't have any say in any of it ... and was actually glad. 

at any rate my nephew has lived in the house for two years and apparently hasn't paid the mortgage so the bank is repossessing it.  my sister emailed a few bizarre emails about my mom's house being a dump and how she works twelve hours a day and the bank is after her and my mom ran up her credit cards.  she never said what she actually wanted me to do ... just odd rants and incomplete sentences about my mom ... i knew she was drunk.  for three days she sent nonsense and wouldn't answer my questions about what exactly was going on the she wanted help with.

i bit my tongue and never emailed exactly what i was thinking, but stayed civil and said that i had troubles too and it sucked that life was so unfair ... wish i could send you money, but i don't have any. 

my 14 year old niece emailed me and told me to get my head out of my a$$!  lol  omg i was so shocked .. she sounded just like my mother and my sister.  she proceeded to tell me how i've never helped them ... ever ... and that family was important and i was being abusive to them.  wow ... just wow.  she's just parroting my sister and has no idea what the truth is.  what on earth are these people thinking?  what are they telling our nieces and nephews about us?  i told my niece she should get in touch with aa or ask a friend or teacher to talk to her about addiction.  i'm sure it will do down in history that her aunt is a heartless person.  i told my niece i won't allow for her to talk to me like that and blocked her and my sister's emails.  i have MS and the drama makes me physically ill and some days unable to walk.  who knows how any of our dramas will turn out, but i know i'm going to work on avoiding theirs.  i can't live their life for them ... can't support them ... well you guys know the drill. 

my husband, of 27 years, is a narcissist, alcoholic, pothead and i found this site today while trying to understand how to survive the abuse.  he's been that way all along ... i just didn't realize how bad it was until i got so sick with MS and i had to count on him.  i just read Don't Let Your Kids Kill You: A Guide for Parents of Drug and Alcohol Addicted Children and started Out of the FOG, which thank the heavens is how i found this site. 

thank god there are sites like this.  thank you all for being here and sharing and helping.  it's so painful ... to be put in the position of protecting ourselves against people we love(d) ... and feeling so alone in it.  i hope we all find peace and happiness.

[PeanutButter]

 Oh lilwren how sad! That is so abusive for S to use N as a flying monkey towards you. Poor girl.
But you can only protect yourself! Im glad you took immediate action and didnt fall for the bait (niece)
How manipulative that you were kept out of the inheritance, but now you are to blame somehow for not being a part of it .     
The house is a dump and being repossessed on their watch but you should help save it all. REDICULOUS!!