NC but still feels like she's in control

[Jenny134]

Struggling today. Its over a year since Ive seen uNPDM. It started with me requesting a break as the stress of her visits left me unable to function in daily life. I always intended to meet her to talk after a few weeks but she squirmed out of it every time i suggested it so I eventually i gave up trying.

After that I got texts thanking me for cards/ vouchers i sent for birthdays, christmas and a demand just before Christmas to know when my dad could drop presents off for my kids.

Then nothing until Easter when my dad was sent as the FM. I explained the issues to him. He blamed me, told me he loved my mum. Then asked if i would meet her to talk as he is lonely? I said yes, he went away and i heard nothing. In June uNPD mum text on behalf of EnF to thank for fathers day card. I enquired if she still wanted to meet and she replied that 'they would rather leave things as they are at the moment'. When i asked if there would ever be a right time to talk she replied i hope so.

I found this really upsetting and said please dont text me again until you want to contact and ive heard nothing until they turned up on my doorstep yesterday and posted a card for my daughters birthday,  then went away without knocking even though it was obvious i was home.

The situation is causing me so much stress. Im now dreading birthdays and christmas because i know she will be in contact, but it is totally on her terms. I want NC period after everything she has done to me and my family but dont feel i can achieve it without moving house.

She hasnt asked to see my children in over a year but then sends my daughter a gushing card telling her how important she is to her and how she is loved so much. It makes me livid.

I feel like texting her and telling her to keep away, but My husband advises against it. He says she looking for a response so she can show it to the rest of the family as more proof that im the problem. I know hes right but how do i end this. It just feels all on her terms. I stopped sending cards after her text in June.

Do i need to tell her that i want NC or should i just remain silent?

I feel like i cannot escape and am just trying my best to work today but cant hold back the tears.

[scapegoat/caregiver]

I would not tell her anything... she is trying to suck you in to confrontation.

[SerenityCat]

 

I understand.

What worked for me is to firmly get busy with other thoughts and activities. Otherwise the focus on personality disordered family members was too overwhelming and stressful. I had to get some therapy and then limit contact with family, eventually NC with parents.

I had to be less available to the manipulation and drama of my parents. In a sense I had to learn how to wear a metaphorical shield or a bullet proof vest to protect myself.

Humor and fun helps. Treating ourselves well can help. Thanking healthy loved ones for their compassion and wisdom helps. Finding something to celebrate can be helpful.

It is even possible to reclaim holidays for ourselves.

[Sunny77]

Hi Jenny134

Myself and many others understand what you are going through at the moment.
For myself I have been NC for 1 year with unpd mum-initially I txt and said I needed space.She kept away.But then just turned up at my door-she got the hint that this was a permanent thing.
Although her turning up brought stress and anxiety-I felt a sort of closure.
I have since had therapy-which for me was great.Dealing  with the guilt I was feeling about having to go no contact.The feelings of "all of this is my fault" as for many years this is what I had been told.
I have turned a corner knowing there is nothing I can do to help her.The guilt for all of this cr@p should lie at her door and not mine.
I concentrated on myself and children.She also has never attempted to find out how children are( maybe through a txt to my husband)Birthday cards a sent through the post-with the same gushing  verses.I feel better to not acknowledge them at all.
I know that my mum thrived on any drama-so I can understand your husbands thoughts on not sending at txt to tell her to keep away.But if a message was sent to either your mum or dad-this could be a definite line.Something that you could say that door is now initially closed and this is my boundary of NC?

I absolutely understand how emotionally draining and difficult having a mum like ours is.But I would really say trying to look after yourself and your own mental health is absolute priority.The main focus for me was concentrating on my own lovely children and husband.

Remember none of this situation is your doing.You did not ask for any of this.

Take care

[GettingOOTF]

My experience of VLC with a parent was that it gave them fewer opportunities to abuse so the abuse was condensed into the shorter interaction, which made the entire interaction stressful and upsetting.

Are you hoping less contact will cause her to look at why and change? My family didn't. My NC/VLC simply reinforced their views about me.

I am focusing on building my life and accepting they won't be part of it.

What you are going through is very stressful and upsetting. I firmly believe that we do all the introspection during NC and the recipient of the NC uses that time and space to ramp up their outrage or move on to someone else. I haven't really read if anyone finding a middle ground. It's more that they find a way not to let the abuse upset them or they walk away.

There is no easy path here and of course you don't feel good about it. I think most people here understand what you are going through.

[Starboard Song]

It always feels, I think, like they are in control.

There is a normal world where this whole discussion never happens. At least 95% of people never experience this. And then they come along, and we are forced into unpleasant, uncommon, unwelcomed decisions.

War takes up a young and innocent man. Just months later her kills another man in hand to hand combat. He knows he did what he had to do, but it is a sort of scar and it will stay with him always. The war was in control. A personality disorder sweeps up people like us, generally amiable and flexible people, and carts us away. Within a short time after emerging through the FOG, we erect clear boundaries, limit contact, or go NC. We know we are doing what we must, but it is a sort of scar on our lives, and it heals over but stays with us. The PD drives all that, and is very much in control.

But it is this way with everything: the car accident is in control, and someone has lost their son; the heart attack is in control, and a husband or father is gone; the cancer is control, and we have no mom. We don't let these things define us. We acknowledge them, accept the hurt and see the scar heal over and we continute.

If you are convinced that enough has been done and said and tried, and that it is time for NC, then it is time for no contact. Some -- like me -- feel the need to declare NC, with a clear but very concise statement of cause. Others don't have that need. Follow your own heart.

And remember, many won't understand. Many will ask questions, and encourage reconciliation. They are not flying monkeys unless working at her behest and against you. So be patient, and warm, and full of confidence. You needn't persuade them: only to inform them.

Good luck.

[newlife33]

Ignore her.  Manipulative people know that if they can establish contact with past victims, they can trigger the abuse cycle.  Go on about your life and forget her would be my advice.

[PeanutButter]

Jenny134 I read all your posts to catch up on your story.
I am so sorry you are experiencing this! I understand how painful your journey through and Out of the FOG is! 
IME and IMO you have given enough chances. You have done more than your part to try to resolve and rectify for your FOO. It seems to me you are the only one that wants to resolve or rectify though. So IMO it wont ever happen. Not because their too old, but because M doesnt want to.
IME It is time to protect yourself and your FOC, especially your children from these very abusive people. Block everyone on everything!! Give no response to any contact attempts.  You deserve to heal and IME I dont think you can while you allow any form of contact. I also worry about your children being exposed to this.
I was just speaking to my H yesterday about the mother (my ubpdM) who creates a family only to slowly but insideously destroy it from within. She purposely causes each member to feel painfully unloved by the other members. Her works achieve discord and distrust between everyone. The end result of total misery is the prize she claims but pretends she didnt want. 
At one time I was in total denial, but I now see the reality described above clearly. I can see that only someone very, very mentally unwell would do this. It is what it is that I didnt see it sooner. The most important thing to me is that once I did see it, I called it out, and refused to go along to get along any more. Any and all the pain should be on ubpdM and enF no matter how old they get, because that is where it originated. I have NO reason to accept feelings of guilt as legitimate.
It reminds me of this childrens story when I was little girl about the emperor's new clothes.
The lessons as I see them now in the story were about trusting yourself(confidence) telling your truth no matter how unpopular.
Jenny134, The emperor IS NAKED! Idc what anybody says!

[Free2Bme]

Jenny134,

I don't have the answers, but wanted to say I'm sorry you are having to deal with this painful situation.

"I feel like texting her and telling her to keep away, but My husband advises against it. He says she looking for a response so she can show it to the rest of the family as more proof that im the problem"
I totally understand why you would not want to incur more blame by initiating "zero" contact, your H is probably right.  It is mind-bending to think that setting protective boundaries will only bring about more scapegoating. What a dilemma.

Each person has a responsibility in a relationship.  You are not responsible for damage caused by your mom, even if she (or other family members) try to shift that to you.  You are only responsible for your own words/actions.  IME, PD's will twist and convolute this for their own gain.  Much of this work has to happen in our own thinking, so that we are not sucked into their vortex of blame.  Her behavior and subsequent consequences are not your responsibility. 

I really appreciate your post J134,  I am going through this too.  Even though I am VVLC, my M does the very same thing with gifts/cards, so I dread holidays too.
I have yet to unravel issues with my mother/FOO, however, reading your post has affirmed that I'm not alone and need to deal with it.

Wishing you peace, comfort and healing   

[Jenny134]

Thank you everyone for your empathy, wisdom and well wishes, it means such a lot right now.

I haven't responded to the card, whilst the urge is still there I know it would be futile. I guess a small part of me still hopes that one day she will hear me out. That is what bothers me the most, in that she isn't prepared to even speak to me to fully understand the problem. If she listened and still felt the same then so be it. But it is just easier for her to not see me and the kids and claim she's too old for the upset (which she creates?). If it is that easy for her to cut us off without a conversation then I wonder if she ever did care about us at all. All the while she has still been speaking to my siblings about it, so is clearly only too old when she chooses, and is happy to carry on scapegoating and gossiping and ensuring everyone hates me.

I'm trying to focus, as many of you advise on my own life with my H and children. One problem I do have is that the guilt always creeps in. It doesn't matter what I am doing, it can be something really simple, but whenever I enjoy myself with my family at some point in the day I always feel guilty and my thoughts always turn to her. Also I often wake up super early in the morning, with a bit of a jolt and feel like I'm such a bad person. My mother has played the eternal victim all her life and I was always made to feel guilty and put her first from a very young age, so I'm finding this really, really difficult to shake, especially as she is now getting old.

I tried to get my sister to see what was going on with our mother earlier in the year. I told her there might be a problem with narcissistic behaviour and triangulation and suggested she read up on these issues then maybe we could meet to talk. I didn't receive a reply but my dad told me when he came by in April that my sister and brother had shown my mother the message I sent my sister. Between them all they had then decided that I was indeed the one who was narcissistic. Their reasoning being that they see me as a perfectionist. I realise now I shouldn't have approached my sister, it only gave her more ammunition and as she shows a lot of the same behaviours as my mother is unlikely to ever see it from my perspective.

I have worked hard (too hard at times) all my life, because the only time my mother showed me any love was when I did well academically and she could brag about it. Even then it wasn't really love, but it got me in her good books for a day or two. They now claim I have to have everything 'just so' because I have worked hard to provide a nice home for my family. If they really knew me they'd see I'm a stressed working mum, who has to cut corners to get by and is generally 'winging' it half the time. But they just see what they want to see, because no ones life is as hard as theirs.

So I'm trying to see the events of this week in a different light. At least now I know if they do come round with a card at birthdays or Christmas it is unlikely that there will be any confrontation, as they won't knock at the door. I will therefore not be dragged into any further drama and won't be dragged into further JADEing, which gets me nowhere only more weeks of stress. Her position obviously hasn't changed and anything I say will just feed her bad habits, so best to keep silent. If they were to knock I don't think I would answer.

I just have to keep reminding myself of this which is not easy, especially at 5.00am in the morning.

Thank you again x

[Fiasco]

This sounds heartbreaking. I'm wondering if you are passing along her cards and gifts to your children when she dumps them on you? Remember you are in control of your home and have no obligation to serve her by passing out what she drops off. She hasn't earned your help, quite the opposite.

[Jenny134]

This is something i have struggled with. Until this occasion yes I have let my children have the cards and money she drops off. But i feel really torn about it. On one side my children are now in their early teens so I dont feel entirely comfortable with hiding things from them. In a few years they will legally be adults so will decide for themselves if they want a relationship with her.

On the other I see how she manipulated me for so many years and dont want the same for them.

I did procrastinate about this last week. In the end my H said he didnt want the card being put up as it was basically full of lies and intended to cause friction within our own little family. He gave my daughter the money and got rid of the card. My daughter said she would have liked to see the card, which then left me feeling guilty.

[PeanutButter]

IMO you are feeling  guilty for protecting your daughter from lies intended to cause her friction in her? IME i hope you find peace with protecting your foc.

[HotCocoa]

Hi Jenny, just a different perspective, one of my children is no contact with their father, an unnpd.  They get what I call guilt cards at different times of the year from father and his parents.  It is never just happy birthday, thinking of you cards, it is dripping with, "we never see you, it's been over xx years, wish you would call."  They all sound rosy on the surface, but drip with guilt that my child did something wrong by not contacting the ex or them. 

I like how your husband said give child the money but not the card.  Child is not an adult and doesn't need mind-bending guilt thrown their way.  However, maybe another suggestion would be skip the card and open up an account to put money into.  This way, they are getting the money in a way they could use it responsibly in the future, without a big heaping of guilt and anxiety.  I would also think your mother is going to be looking for an ally in your daughter against you.  She may write things, "so sorry we can't speak, hope your mother gets well."  Something twisted. 

Do all you can to protect your daughter, especially while she is at a vulnerable, influencing age.

My child does see the cards sent, but since they have been nc for so long, the cards aren't having much of an effect any more.   Good luck.

[PeanutButter]

 Jenny as I watched my daily Jerry Wise video on you tube this morning I thought of you and said to myself"I wish jenny134 could hear this. It touches on several of the points of concern and confusion we all are trying to figure out on this thread discussion. I really hope you can watch it and it will help you the same way it did me. https://youtu.be/rQ8He2Y8P50
I have an uhpdS who 'remembers' a totally different scenario about growing up in our house. It is very upsetting to both of us. I remember specific events of physical abuse and verbal abuse. With my adult perspective and my OOF education I can see the daily emotional abuse too. My uhpdS makes character assinations, tells of things that she has heard about not that she witnessed, and wrongly interprets behaviors IMO. I dont try to convince her. But it was shocking to me the first time I heard her version of what happened. The narrative she uses is very similar to the one i heard repeatedly from my ubpdM in her attempts to alienate me from my enF while I was growing up.

[Jenny134]

Jenny as I watched my daily Jerry Wise video on you tube this morning I thought of you and said to myself"I wish jenny134 could hear this. It touches on several of the points of concern and confusion we all are trying to figure out on this thread discussion. I really hope you can watch it and it will help you the same way it did me. https://youtu.be/rQ8He2Y8P50

Thank you for the link, I found it comforting and it validated my feelings that its actually better for me to be NC right now. The notion that I need to find my sensevof self is key I think. When I look back my uNPDm controlled my opinions, thoughts, likes and dislikes. When I look around my house there are things I chose based on her opinion and not my own. This needs to change.

Thanks again x

[Spring Butterfly]

It feels like she's in control because she took your request for space and turned it around into silent treatment. ST is a ploy for control and see the Top 100 Traits for more detail. There's also a Toolbox topic on the difference between NC and ST that's enlightening.

NC is actually No Contact - they cannot contact. What you have is very low contact only as needed similar to my setup, it's sort of in limbo. We drifted there because I tried to address issues in the moment as they happened and the result was attackd and rages, unreasonable. So I slowly backed off and drifted into less and less contact.

Calling you too difficult to please yes I get that too and it's common. Crazy making though just the same. It's a form of gaslighting brought to another level called DARVO if you want to check that out. My siblings turned on me eventually as well, sad.

There's no easy way to get them out of your head. Pete Walker's website has some info on rewriting the inner critic. Many of us take the years of abuse and turn inward, those judgemental voices try and convince us producing unwarranted guilt. Time to rewrite the script so you can get unstuck and move ahead living your life. The feelings may surface from time to time but they won't own your daily living if you can get to that point.

[Jenny134]

Thank you Spring Butterfly. Your thoughts gave me a lot of clarity on the situation. This is her indeed trying to punish me with the ST.

She's done it so many times before and it always used to make me back down. But this time I feel there is nothing to be gained by doing so. Its given me a taste of NC, although i do see that im not quite there yet. But that taste has made me realise what a normal happy life could be like.

Sorry to hear you have gone through a similar experience.