Emotional Abuse

Stepping lightly · October 07, 2019, 10:44:57 AM

Hi All,

This is really just a vent. It's very infrequent that my stepkids give us any kind of view into the life they live at BM's. We know things are happening, but they are definitely on some type of BM gag order. Every once in a while, a little tidbit comes out, and it just breaks our heart. DSS12 is the SG at BM's. We know it's been a really tough road for him, and it kills us that we are not able to help him other than to support him when we are able to see him. A couple of years ago, DSS, then 10, told his therapist that he wants to live with his Dad/me. The therapist (who isn't very sharp), told DSS to talk to his mom about it. That went badly. It resulted in BM ramming DSS through a psychiatric evaluation (fully blocking DH from providing input) and having DSS diagnosed as bi-polar. DH did everything he could to give his input into the process, which is completely appropriate, but was completely denied by the doctor. We saw the input documents BM/BF (yes, BF got to provide input!) wrote about DSS. Seriously- I don't even know the kid they wrote about- the behaviors were nothing I had ever seen or could ever imagine seeing in DSS. I fully diagree with the diagnosis as it was purely based on BM's input. Immediately after, there was an incident at BM's house where she had to call the police on DSS (aggain- then 10). DSS told us his version of what happened, and basically BM picked him up from school after a weekend at our house. In the car on the way home, she accused him of doing something he says he didn't do (don't even know what it was). He was really upset about the accusation, and when they got to the house, BM told DSS he had to do jumping jacks as a punishment. He refused, it escalated. It escalated to the point of her threatening to call the police and having him sedated, which only made him more upset. Her BF came out of the house and started pushing him around the yard and into the middle of the street, while BM called the police. Goes without saying, but we were devastated this happened to him. All of this, right after he said he wanted to live with us....

We had talks with DSS after that about how it's not necessary to match someone else's emotional level. If someone comes in the room screaming at you, you don't have to start screaming back. It's ok to calmly respond and try to figure out what is happening without losing control of your emotions. We explained how the emotional escalation would happen, and how he can really try to minimize it. So- fast forward to this weekend- DSD caused a scene and was really nasty to DH and there were consequences (she wasn't allowed to go to the activity we were all at the door waiting to take her to)- we explained to DSS that we were really angry, but wanted him to understand that one of us starting to yell at DSD would not have made anything better. He said, "When mom yells at me, and if I don't start yelling back, she gets even more angry. She starts telling me that I am apathetic".

Sigh- I just breaks my heart that he has a mother who is so out of control, that she tries to force him into conflict.

Penny Lane · October 07, 2019, 01:38:53 PM

It's so hard to hear, I know, and it's just agonizing to know you can't do anything about it.

Like, you're doing everything right, you're teaching the kids healthy emotional coping skills and ... she just uses it to abuse them more. There is truly no winning.

I'm kind of coming around to using the words "emotional abuse" to talk about how our BM treats the kids. I feel a lot more comfortable with "terrorizes." Abuse is such a scary word but I think in the end it's good to acknowledge how scary the situation actually is. And the more I hear about what she does, the more I'm certain that abuse is the right word to describe it.

It takes so much work to go back in and keep loving them and keep making a stable house every other week. But I really do think the safe haven of your home is the difference between a chance at healthy adulthood vs not, for your DSS. Maybe that's too optimistic but I think you have to hold on to that hope if you're going to keep showing up every time, right?

It sucks. Vent away, sometimes that really is all you can do.

pushit · October 07, 2019, 01:46:55 PM

Near the end of my marriage my exPDw tried to get the kids into therapy and keep me out of the process. She had been having issues with the kids pushing back against her, and insisted they needed therapy to behave better (because it's never the PD's fault, right?) Luckily for me, the kids were on my insurance so she couldn't do it without my knowing. I stood up to her, got involved and spoke with the therapists myself so they had both sides of the story. exPDw got very angry with me about that, but by that point I had filed and our lawyers wanted us both to cooperate regarding therapy for the kids, which I was 100% happy to do anyways. Basically it forced her to allow me to be involved. Luckily, these therapists were very experienced and well aware that things aren't always what they seem and they wanted to hear from both of us. The kids are currently still seeing them and it's helping.

I don't know your situation, custody/decision making court orders, etc. My question is this - What would stop DH from getting DSS his own therapist and making sure it's someone versed in PDs? Find someone on your own who can truly help your DSS, because it sounds like he could use someone good to talk to. If I were in your situation that is what I would do. Take assertive action to help solve the problem and try to circumvent the problems that BM is making worse.

I know from my past that it was a nightmare having a therapist that is incompetent. We spent 8 months with a marriage counselor that totally bought into exPDw's victim-hood and it made the situation way worse for me. It reinforced exPDw's narrative that everything was my fault and I spent that time trying even harder to fix everything. I'm so glad that's over. It pains me to think your DSS is dealing with that right now at the age of 12. It's hard enough to deal with as an adult.

Stepping lightly · October 07, 2019, 02:35:29 PM

Thanks all! DSS is surviving, and when I tell you he is an absolute doll, I can't stress that enough.

PL- I agree on the abuse term, but there is no other word for it. To make a 10 year old to believe he is mentally ill is just absolutely cruel, I'm not sure what else you would call it.

Pushit- Sadly we can't pick a therapist for him. Originally, BM refused to allow the kids to have a therapist. When DSS was 5, he had a bit of a meltdown after an interaction with BM, and we were very concerned and wanted to get him in to see someone. BM refused, said we were trying to pathologize the kids. We just wanted them to have support in a very high conflict situation. This was all during a period of time right before court. BM had told DSS that she was going to the judge to tell them what a bad kid he is and to take time away from his Dad to make him behave better. During that hearing, the judge granted DH full decision making on emotional health, with the caveat that BM could have input into the T (she actually skewed this from what the original direction was to give herself more power...

). DH had a week to get the kids set up with a T, and BM called every single one behind him and for some reason they would call DH afterwards and decline to take the kids on. We ended up with a REALLY horrible T, really, really bad. We tried to get rid of her, but...basically BM had burned all the bridges with the other local doctors. Finally we had a parent coordinator, who directed that the T be changed. We ended up with a GREAT T- and BM fought it every step of the way. She demanded the kids be removed from her care, she refused to take them to appointments. But- she did not have decision making, and DH refused to stop them from seeing her. Then, the T did an update on how the kids were doing- and it was not good for BM. Since BM couldn't force us to drop the T, and the T was NOT good for her situation, she did the only thing in her power- she filed malpractice on the T. That stopped therapy immediately, and the T was not allowed to testify. It ended up that DH gave up decision making on this point, because what's the point and he used it to negotiated something else for custody? She completely manipulates the situation- destroys the T, makes the kids not trust the T. She had DSS in therapy the last few years, he was actually doing well and we thought it was a good thing. Then- DSS had a breakthrough about how he's being treated and BM found out and stopped his therapy. We really just want him to have a resource to navigate the treatment he gets at his mom's house.

DH can go to appointments and meet with therapists, as well as request any medical/psych records. That's how we know what BM wrote on the intake records for the psychiatrist. But we do not have the luxury of taking him to a T on our own, and it would be really tough to do EOW as well.

The kids are only with us EOW during the school year, so 2 weeks at a time is a long time to be tormented by 3 older family members in the house.

pushit · October 07, 2019, 03:04:08 PM

Yikes, what a mess BM is creating for everyone! I'm really sorry to hear about all that.

I would say the silver lining here is that he was able to spend time with a good therapist and had that breakthrough about what is happening to him. BM can stop the therapy, but that seed is already planted in DSS's head. I'm sure (and I hope) he still has that in his mind, and knows deep down that he isn't the problem.

Free2Bme · October 07, 2019, 10:22:38 PM

Stepping Lightly,

My heart goes out to you and your family. My decree states that if my uNPDx and I cannot agree upon a T for child, then the court appoints one. Is this an option in your state? I don't know how qualified a court appointed counselor might be, but at least she couldn't run them off or risk looking really bad to a judge.

"We had talks with DSS after that about how it's not necessary to match someone else's emotional level. If someone comes in the room screaming at you, you don't have to start screaming back."

Awesome. Equipping them with tools for dealing with the hostile environment is imperative. Keep the line of "safe" communication open with the kids and a soft place to land, they need that so much. Document everything.

Stay the course.

Stepping lightly · October 08, 2019, 11:05:36 AM

The therapist thing has really just been such a disappointment. We have had a couple decent ones, but the rest were IMO very destructive. BM wants the destructive version, she has historically been able to manipulate them quite easily. Court could appoint a therapist, but for perspective, we had a court ordered Parent Coordinator- she ended up filing a motion in court and dropping our case after she realized she couldn't handle it (she also caused a ton of destruction). I know it sounds defeatist, but BM is 10 steps of us at any point, she gets what she wants and there is a ton of pain in the process. Nothing sticks to her, she's screwed up, massively- but she cries PTSD due to abuse from DH and everyone is afraid to do anything about her behavior. It's really quite amazing. She had the PC testify in court that she is still being emotionally abused by DH....because he doesn't answer her emails fast enough! WHAT?!

I do very much think that DSS understands what BM is at this point. It appears that her treatment of him and then the final straw of calling the police really opened his eyes. I also think he knows he isn't mentally ill. We couldn't just say that outright, BM would taken us to court claiming we are going against Doctor's diagnosis etc.etc. All I said to DSS was, "That's really surprising to me, I just don't see it AT ALL". He got into a fight with DSD one day, DSD was basically railing at him like BM does- he walked away, rolled his eyes and said, "They do this because they think I'm "Bi-Polar"" and he used air quotes for bi-polar.

athene1399 · October 17, 2019, 06:43:01 AM

I'm not sure if I'm reading into this correctly, but it almost sounds like BM and to an extent DSD use DSS's diagnosis as a reason to be kind of mean to him. I wonder if you could use this as a learning experience for DSD and talk to her about how sometimes people with mental disorders can be frustrating, but that doesn't mean we should be mean to them. And if you're brother makes you mad, how can you talk to him better?

My sis used to scold me like my uPD mom. Actually she still sometimes does. It is kind of annoying. I'm glad DSS has you guys though.

I'm sure it makes him feel a bit better knowing that you guys see what is going on and understand it. It gets lonely when no one else sees it. The support you give him is so helpful. It may not feel like you're doing much, but you really are.

Stepping lightly · October 17, 2019, 02:23:13 PM

Oh, BM, DSD and BM's BF beat up on DSS. It's really horrible.

We definitely step in when either child uses a real or perceived "disability" as a way to be mean to the other. DSD has hearing issues, and DSS will parrot BM and say nasty things when he wants to get under DSD's skin. DSD will do the same to DSS. We do not in any reinforce the idea that DSS has bi-polar disorder, because we do not believe that to be true. The discussions center around being kind to each other.

pushit · October 17, 2019, 10:47:58 PM

One thing that has happened with me after the end of my marriage is I've grown really sick of people nit-picking each other, and it's really changed me in terms of how I deal with people now. In recent conversations with my FOO and friends I've definitely changed, and I've been straight with them that I don't want to be involved in any bickering. You do things how you want to, I will do my own how I want to, leave me out of the turmoil because I no longer care what you think.

In relation to the kids: One thing I've done with my kids is when I see them fighting over something inconsequential, and they start picking at each other over like "you did this to me" and "but you did that!" I will stop and remind them that that's not how we're going to treat each other in Dad's house. We're family. We love and support each other. We may not like every thing the other person does, but love doesn't stop. Basically, you're not allowed to say negative things about others because we just hold each other down that way and that's not what we want as a family. If we're mad at each other, walk away and take a break.

Just because of exPDw and how she is negative over every little thing, one thing I've been thinking of is maybe one night a week over dinner we each have a turn sharing something positive about the other people at the table.

I grew up with several negative people in my life, and it held me back for a long time. I'm happy now to say that I'm letting them go for good (not just the exPDw). I love the idea that you get to choose your own mood every day. It's not always easy, but I like the idea of choosing happiness and kicking ass every morning when I wake up.

Medowynd · October 18, 2019, 11:24:57 AM

Will your DSS have the option to choose to live with you when he is older? I know that every state is different, but hopefully that is a possibility in the future.

Stepping lightly · October 21, 2019, 08:42:03 AM

The kids were forced to choose when they were 9 and 11, the court allowed it even given the documented alienation. Part of the problem was our judge was sick and we got a new judge. Our judge saw what was going on, the new one fell for BM's victim act.

We will pull that card again if we need to, but BM has created a backup plan that she can trigger as well. She will say we've alienated him, that he's mentally ill and we don't manage it, etc. etc. etc. So, it will be a full on war, and I'm not sure DSS will be brave enough to fully stand up to his mom. He's done it halfway, made the statement that he wanted to live with us, and he paid for it dearly.

We found out this weekend that DSS gets up for school way before BM gets up, he makes his own breakfast and lunch- which is fine to teach him independence, but to not even get up in time to get him to school on time is icing on the cake to me. Then he told us when he misses the late bell he needs a parent to sign him in or he gets detention, and BM refuses to sign him in. Says, "it'll be fine, just tell them it's my fault", so he gets in school detention for it. All she has to do is walk through the door and sign him in so he doesn't get detention, but she won't do it. When I drive DSS to school, we aim to be there 15 minutes early. Unknowingly, I asked him last week if he liked getting to school early and he said, "OH yeah!". Now I understand why.

pushit · October 21, 2019, 08:59:32 AM

Regarding being late to school and getting detention - Could you have a conversation with the school to let them know what is happening at BM's house? It's unfair for him to be punished by the school because of BM's behavior.

If BM is anything like my exPDw, one thing that can work on them is their fear of being exposed. If it were me, I would make sure BM knows I'm aware that she is unwilling to sign DSS in when he's late to school. Then, I would speak with the school and let them know why DSS is showing up to school late, and they can contact me for my sign-off so he doesn't get detention for being late. I would let BM know my concerns and that I have spoken with the school. With my exPDw that kind of exposure usually gets her to straighten up pretty quickly as she wants to be seen publicly as a perfect mom.

Penny Lane · October 21, 2019, 09:24:20 AM

Wow, Stepping Lightly, EXACT same situation here.

A little backstory:
- The school year I met DH, the kids had so many tardies they got a truacy letter home. H thought it was a mistake and emailed the teachers to ask. Turns out the kids had dozens of tardies. BM lost her mind at H for daring to talk to the teacher without getting her permission.
- Second year, H signed up for early dropoff. Expensive, but BM got them to school on time every day.
- Third year, he canceled it. While they were in court she took them to school on time every day. We thought that because she got a new job with an earlier start time she had to get the kids to school on time in order to make it to work. The WEEK after they settled there were three tardies. She also during this time started arguing that the kids should stay at her house every single school night because I take them to school not DH, and it would be soooo much better for them to have a parent take them to school.
- This year, DSD has already been late once thought not DSS. They go to the same school and SS's classroom is way farther from the dropoff point. Best guess is that she was running late and dropped them off down the street, so the kids ran to class but DSD didn't make it on time ... ?

So back to your point, our DSS12 also recently shared that he gets himself and his sister up and fed, they put their clothes on and do all the chores (feeding the animals even) and all BM does is get them to school. H said that separately they told him that "breakfast" is often those little packages of donuts from the grocery store. Like you said I actually kind of like that they have the ability to do this for themselves (I probably coddle them a little) but it's so sad to me that it's because their mom is unable to help. I said "what does your mom do during this time?" DSD said "sleep." DSS said "she showers and gets ready." I said "It's nice of you to do all that for her." DSS said "well we don't really have a choice, it's our chores."

The kids have a lot of stress around getting places on time. We too aim to be 15 minutes early. They really appreciate it and if you suggest that we are late they get super stressed. (Like, if we weren't going to get there 15 minutes early - say they dawdled for 10 minutes - I was in the habit of saying "come on, we're going to be late!" That freaked them out so much I started saying "we're going to be late for us and hit the morning dropoff traffic.") H recently learned that DSD put as one of her goals this year "don't be late." It kind of broke our hearts because the kids are so responsible about getting ready, it's 100% on BM.

H tried a bunch of different ways to get her to take the kids to school on time. Explaining the problems, highlighting how important it is to get to school on time, calling her out in front of the principal, calling her out to the teachers ... none of it worked. We decided this is just one of the many things we have to let go. Spend that energy on making sure the kids know how to get themselves places on time when they're not relying on their mom. And spend it on modeling good behavior. It still frustrates me though - this is SO basic and she can't even do this.

Stepping lightly · October 21, 2019, 12:30:14 PM

Thanks PL- it really stinks the kids have to deal with this type of thing. DSS has said that BM will kick out of the car in the middle of the car pool line if she is late. That breaks like every rule of carpool and it's dangerous (hence the rules). But the fact that SHE is late and it would only take her like 30 steps to go sign him in...but she lets him get detention.

I agree with the kids having the responsibility of chores, but they are kids and need to be checked on. 3 years ago when DSS was 9, BM made them make their own lunches. She didn't check their lunches, and DSS didn't always give himself enough time to make one. DH and I would visit DSS at school for lunch, and he literally had like a snack size fruit cup and some pretzels. I was like, "Buddy, what happened to your lunch?"- he shrugged, "I didn't have time to pack it". Sorry- but if you give a 9 year old that responsibility, fine, but make sure they have enough food. If they don't, help them with time management, etc. etc. etc. We started going to lunch as much as we could and would bring extra food and ask him to share with us.

Penny Lane · October 21, 2019, 03:06:12 PM

Yes! Our BM really struggles to follow the rules about the carpool lane as well. The rules are set up FOR SAFETY but she acts like the fact that she's late to work exempts her from following those rules.

For awhile they would do all handoffs at the school (because DH wouldn't let her come to the house). One time DSD was sick and I guess BM was late to work because she drove right past the parking lot where they always exchanged, drove down the street, parked, and texted DH that if he wasn't there in one minute she was leaving. By the time he figured out where she was she had left. He was about to head home and called her to ask where DSD was and realized SHE HAD LEFT A SUPER SICK SHIVERING KINDERGARTENER STANDING ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. It was awful.

Yeah a nine year old cannot pack their own lunch. Maybe with some serious oversight you could get them started on learning how to pack their own lunch. But there's just no way that's gonna go well without any supervision at all.

Stepping lightly · October 21, 2019, 03:30:55 PM

Wow PL, the side of the road?! Did that get brought up in court?

Well, and you know what happens if we are ever late, one time...end of the PD world!

Penny Lane · October 21, 2019, 04:17:48 PM

Man the side of the road thing was wild, just like so awful and such a staggeringly bad decision on her part, I haven't thought about that in awhile. When H brought it up to her she said that she didn't leave DSD on the side of the road. But ... she did, that's where SD was, shivering and holding a grocery bag full of medicine. BM also said that it was DH's fault for "refusing" to go to a "reasonable" drop off spot. But he didn't even realize that's where she was! I also was driving by there recently and realized there are actually no parking during school hours signs there ... I think to prevent people from doing exactly what she wanted to do.

It never came up in court. Actually surprisingly little of her bad behavior came up in front of the judge. What did happen was that H's lawyer would show BM's lawyer the mountains of evidence of bad decision making, and they would end up settling before a judge ever saw it. I don't remember if he brought up this incident specifically, but I don't think so, because he wasn't looking for any changes to the parenting plan that would have solved it. Really in the scheme of bad decisions she's made for the kids, that one didn't cause any long-term damage so it really pales in comparison to other stuff. Or maybe we had just lost perspective - everything she does is so bad some of it seemed like it wasn't even worth raising to anyone? As it turned out the only change she really dug in her heels about was money, so the judge heard more arguments about financial stuff than bad parenting.

Oh yeah. BM is ROUTINELY late, like usually more than 15 minutes late to anything. When she occasionally shows up on time to pickups she's FURIOUS that the kids aren't immediately ready to walk out the door. Like, it takes them a minute to put their shoes on and she's in our driveway losing her mind. I've heard her call H and say "Pickup time was three minutes ago, why aren't they ready?" Literally, three minutes, probably one minute after she texted him that she was there. One time she mixed up the pickup days so H wasn't there when she expected him to be. Again, this was her fault, he didn't do anything wrong. The next pickup she had DSS call H (so inappropriate) to ask if he was coming - five minutes BEFORE the drop off time - as if H was late or was unreliable. And of course she never, ever has them ready to go when H arrives. It usually takes at least 10 minutes after pickup time. Sometimes they're not even awake when he gets there - her included.

I think the kids notice, though. I hear them say stuff to each other like "well dad said he'd be there so he'll be there." I see them act uncertain and stressed if someone asks if they're going to an event on their mom's time, because they know she's unreliable. Having detention because your mom can't get you places on time, that's extreme but I think the same frustration is there even when the consequences can be tied to her less directly.