NC or NB? Rethinking the phrase 'going no contact'

Psuedonym · October 10, 2019, 01:23:22 PM

So I came to a realization the other day and it involves the phrase 'going no contact'. Going NC implies that we (in this case the children of PDs) have initiated something, have chosen to do something drastic and sever ties with the PD in our lives. in my case, and I'm sure in many of yours, that simply isn't what happened. What happened is that I (and I'm sure al lot of you) am reacting to a situation that has existed all my life, which is living in a state of constantly being bullied.

My example: in the past 10 months, by BF has related to Negatron probably dozens of times that she is in charge of remedying the current situation. I have insisted on her doing three things if I'm going to interact with her again: 1) get help (real help, not a T who she can whine about her childhood to for years on end and avoid any and all acccountability), 2) own up to her past behaviors, and 3) change her behaviors. Basically a shorter version of that is I want to be treated with respect. Her response has been to continue to try to bully me by 1) denying everything, 2) gaslighting, 3) projecting her own behaviors and 4) insisting that I 'change my tune', 'grow up', etc etc.

My point here is that I haven't severed contact with her at all, she is refusing to have contact with me by refusing to abide by some very basic ground rules of civil interaction. This may seem a small difference, but its made a huge difference to me, especially with respect to feeling guilty about the situation. Rather that severing contact with her, what I've done is enact a No Bullying policy with her, and if she doesn't want to play by those rules, that is 100% on her. It's her decision not to have contact with me, and if she's miserable, that's 100% her own doing.

Language is important, and the way we define things is important. This realization has helped me a great deal and I'm hoping maybe it will help somebody else here.

Blueberry Pancakes · October 10, 2019, 02:39:14 PM

I think this is a good perspective on no contact because it reflects that it is not a choice we make among many options, but instead is what we are driven to because there is no option. It is their behaviors, not our decision.
I believe unless you have been through this, nobody gets it. I feel like my family literally drove me off. I feel like they pushed, and pushed, and pushed me to the brink. I was henpecked to death. When you cannot be who you are, the cost for remaining with them is yourself. That is price none of us should have to pay.
One thing I believe is that they will never get it and never understand. It is hard to know you will never be understood by your own family. It is a loss. But you now have peace within yourself that is hard won. You know who you are and it is unshakable.

Tried2bZen · October 10, 2019, 03:48:45 PM

Really good points. I think of it comparable to Aikido where you simply deflect the force of the attacker. You didn't initiate a punch but merely deflected the attacker's energy. So maybe you could call it "deflecting to no contact."

11JB68 · October 10, 2019, 08:17:59 PM

I like this. I'm ready struggling right now with a worksituation. Co worker (who fortunately is leaving, but not fast enough for me) may have an uPD, had definitely bullied many. I am not talking to her, which is very awkward, and I feel like I'm being immature. Yet each time recently that I tried to speak with her she snapped at me, blamed me,c etc. So 1) I do not have the energy any more to take theabuse, and 2) I'm afraid I may lose it and let loose on her, which I've been advised not to do.
So...is this me giving her the silent treatment?? I don't know... I feel more like I'm avoiding abuse, and preventing a blow up.

PeanutButter · October 16, 2019, 01:37:25 PM

Quote from: Psuedonym on October 10, 2019, 01:23:22 PM
So I came to a realization the other day and it involves the phrase 'going no contact'. Going NC implies that we (in this case the children of PDs) have initiated something, have chosen to do something drastic and sever ties with the PD in our lives. in my case, and I'm sure in many of yours, that simply isn't what happened. What happened is that I (and I'm sure al lot of you) am reacting to a situation that has existed all my life, which is living in a state of constantly being bullied.

My example: in the past 10 months, by BF has related to Negatron probably dozens of times that she is in charge of remedying the current situation. I have insisted on her doing three things if I'm going to interact with her again: 1) get help (real help, not a T who she can whine about her childhood to for years on end and avoid any and all acccountability), 2) own up to her past behaviors, and 3) change her behaviors. Basically a shorter version of that is I want to be treated with respect. Her response has been to continue to try to bully me by 1) denying everything, 2) gaslighting, 3) projecting her own behaviors and 4) insisting that I 'change my tune', 'grow up', etc etc.

My point here is that I haven't severed contact with her at all, she is refusing to have contact with me by refusing to abide by some very basic ground rules of civil interaction. This may seem a small difference, but its made a huge difference to me, especially with respect to feeling guilty about the situation. Rather that severing contact with her, what I've done is enact a No Bullying policy with her, and if she doesn't want to play by those rules, that is 100% on her. It's her decision not to have contact with me, and if she's miserable, that's 100% her own doing.

Language is important, and the way we define things is important. This realization has helped me a great deal and I'm hoping maybe it will help somebody else here.

YES!YES! So well articulated!

GettingOOTF · October 18, 2019, 06:45:37 AM

A large part of why I finally decided to go fully NC with my family was that one day I realized that no one else in my life spoke to me the way my family does. No one would ever say the hurtful, mocking and disrespectful things they do. My family don't have some inherent right to abuse and mock me because they could when I was a child.

I see the NC as them refusing to interact with me in an even basic civil manner.

It was important for me to accept that they will not change and that they have no right to treat me the way they do. I finally came to realize that I should expect the same treatment from my family as I get from everyone else.

I used to think my family treated me the way they did as they knew me best and they knew I deserved it. I used to think that if others knew me as well as my family they'd treat me the same way, so I put up with it and just prayed no one else figured out how bad I was. Now I see I had it the wrong way around.

MyEyesROpen · October 18, 2019, 09:25:06 AM

NC for me is mostly about a refusal to engage with people who won't stop telling hurtful lies. I think its a basic requirement for any relationship. Lies destroy trust and if you can't trust someone, you can't have a relationship with them. Bullying was also a large element of my choosing NC though. I suppose the lies were part of the bullying.

Psuedonym · October 18, 2019, 10:27:07 AM

Thanks for all your insightful comments on this thread!

GettingOOTF, this one really blew me away: I used to think my family treated me the way they did as they knew me best and they knew I deserved it. I used to think that if others knew me as well as my family they'd treat me the same way, so I put up with it and just prayed no one else figured out how bad I was. Now I see I had it the wrong way around.

That is just so well said and I think the source of a lot of toxic shame for many of us. Realizing that we are not the problem takes a lot of deprogramming to truly accept.

to everybody

Starboard Song · October 18, 2019, 10:53:48 AM

Great thread and great points.

It is certainly the case that few people choose to go no contact for light or transient causes. We are ousually responding to the consistent and incorrigible behavior of those who fail to meet minimum standards of decency.

But I encourage us to own up to the radical difference between NC and all of the previous years we probably spent trying to make it work. Like you, we did not go no contact without recourse. Our no contact announcement included a very specific and dispassionate reason for no contact, and clearly pointed the way towards a recovery of normalcy.

But it was still Radical.

Since that date, we do not look for hints that maybe they've changed. We don't issue partial credit because a greeting card was Anodyne instead of toxic. We do not offer accommodations to please, we do not check in every 6 months with kind reminders and inquiries, and we do not anxiously await their return to the table. For us, that is what NC is about, and how it changes everything from the previous bouts of Silent treat and previous spasms of abuse.

I have lots of people from whom I do not tolerate bullying. Yet I will engage with them, gladly, until bullying starts. That has not been true about my in-laws since March of 2016. It will never ever be true again. Absent evidence of transformational change, they, and this is very sad, they will never again be part of my life.

I am NB with everyone on this earth, many of whom I engage with regularly: NC is different.