Another victory this weekend - stopped doing things "his" way

Started by p123, October 14, 2019, 04:34:39 AM

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p123

Had enough now. He has a problem  - I'm perfectly willing to help sort out. If it costs money hes got money. I've now had it with doing things "his way" (which normally involve a lot of hassle on my part) just because he wants it that way or , as is mostly the case, doesn't want to spend money,

He has a mobility scooter. Its got to be stored outside but theres no power to charge the battery. So he expects someone will unplug it, carry it up the stairs to his apartment, charge it, return in a few days to replace it so he can use the scooter.

Of course, I offered, I'd arrange an electrician to fit an outside power. Obvious! I'd arrange it, all he has to do is answer the door, and pay. Nope refuses.

So this weekend, he wanted me to take the battery out, and, listen to this, drive up after work tonight (its like over an hour out of my way) to replace it so he can use the scooter on Tuesday.....

NO WAY I told him. I'm busy. Then I get the guilt trip "Oh I'll be stuck in and I really wanted to go Tuesday" and "I'll have to walk then, but it'll me so ill afterwards".

Unlucky, I offered a solution but his penny pinching is WAY more important then my time. So I ended the conversation "NO I can't do that. Sorry but you'll have to walk. Let me know if you want me to arrange that outside plug socket though".

I bet he STILL won't get it fitted. His obsession with not spending money (got about £40K in the bank) is amazing. Also, I think he prefers things a bit screwed up to be honest. He certainly prefers getting others to do things.

Adrianna

Yes they love getting people to do things for them. It's fuel.

You are seeing his behaviors now in a new light for what they are, manipulations to get you to perform as expected.

I'm glad you put yourself first and denied his request.  Keep doing that!

Practice an attitude of gratitude.

p123

Quote from: Adrianna on October 14, 2019, 04:55:48 AM
Yes they love getting people to do things for them. It's fuel.

You are seeing his behaviors now in a new light for what they are, manipulations to get you to perform as expected.

I'm glad you put yourself first and denied his request.  Keep doing that!

To be honest, before I'd feel guilty and think "oh no hes stuck in the house".

Yesterday I actually felt good about it. I just thought "I've offered to fix the problem what more do you want?". "If you choose to stamp your feet and want it down your way then carry on".

So this week he can't go out because he refuses to spend probably £100. His choice, keep £100 (go with the other 400 £100s in the bank, and stay in or pay out and go out.). Me driving 20+ miles, taking about 2-3 hours of my time for FREE every time is no an option.

p123

Although hes played a game with his broken window....

Stupidly, I agreed that yes, I would call the management company to come to report the window that won't close. Still didn't stop him saying "dont forget" 3 times. Even though window has been like this for weeks!

So I did today. Only for them to tell me someone else has already reported it.

So looks like both myself and brother got asked. Seriously. Why? One of us will do. As I've often said, I think he does like getting people to do things for him.

I don't mind doing but I'm in work and busy this week. Could have done without 10 mins on hold, then speaking to someone to find out its already done. Another classic from Dad.

Adrianna

Another common move.

Nana will ask multiple people to do the same thing. She has very little patience so whoever performs the duty first is the winner (or loser in this case.). The rest of us make efforts to do it to find it's already been done. A colossal waste of everyone's time but she gets joy out of watching everyone fuss over her.

Practice an attitude of gratitude.

p123

Quote from: Adrianna on October 14, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Another common move.

Nana will ask multiple people to do the same thing. She has very little patience so whoever performs the duty first is the winner (or loser in this case.). The rest of us make efforts to do it to find it's already been done. A colossal waste of everyone's time but she gets joy out of watching everyone fuss over her.

Yes I thought this was the case. Everythings "urgent" with Dad. Gotta to be done NOW.

He used to get his utility bill and be down the post office queuing outside for it to open at 9am. Because "they might cut me off".
Hes the same when he asks me to do something. In the past hes phoned me at 915am to ask what is happening....

LittleStar

Well done,  p123!

Quote from: Adrianna on October 14, 2019, 04:55:48 AM
Yes they love getting people to do things for them. It's fuel.

You are seeing his behaviors now in a new light for what they are, manipulations to get you to perform as expected.

I'm glad you put yourself first and denied his request.  Keep doing that!


My Narc M is the same... And I'm also finally ignoring her wants/needs. Not my business anymore :smug:
"Awareness is the first step in healing." - Dean Ornish

Unsent letter http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=70583.0

WomanInterrupted

Good for you!   :yahoo:

You've found his Achilles heel - money - now keep using it against him, and replacing his cockamamie demands (which involve your time, effort and money) with your own SENSIBLE ones that involve HIS money - and minimal effort and time on your part.

If stuff doesn't get done, you know he'll turn to others - and that includes his shopping.  He'll always find a way and notify more than one person - the smaller the fire, the more people are called to put it out, IME.  :violin:

Your dad thrives on the chaos and confusion he causes - I swear they get high if two or more people try to do the same thing for them, at the same time.  I think it makes them feel like others are *competing* to do their bidding!   :roll:

I think on some level you remembered the other situation, where he HAD to have his mobility device, so you brought it to him and he wound up not going out - this time, you used it to YOUR advantage, by putting up *sensible boundaries.*   :yes:

Now you don't have to worry about that call I think you knew you were going to get Thursday evening, if you'd bent to his wishes, and went up to charge his battery:  "Oh, I wound up not going out, after all."   :phoot:

Didi and Ray would do stuff like that and I swear, there are times you can hear the smug smirk, even over the phone.   :blowup:

Keep up the good work!   :righton:

:hug:

p123

Quote from: WomanInterrupted on October 14, 2019, 11:45:24 PM
Good for you!   :yahoo:

You've found his Achilles heel - money - now keep using it against him, and replacing his cockamamie demands (which involve your time, effort and money) with your own SENSIBLE ones that involve HIS money - and minimal effort and time on your part.

If stuff doesn't get done, you know he'll turn to others - and that includes his shopping.  He'll always find a way and notify more than one person - the smaller the fire, the more people are called to put it out, IME.  :violin:

Your dad thrives on the chaos and confusion he causes - I swear they get high if two or more people try to do the same thing for them, at the same time.  I think it makes them feel like others are *competing* to do their bidding!   :roll:

I think on some level you remembered the other situation, where he HAD to have his mobility device, so you brought it to him and he wound up not going out - this time, you used it to YOUR advantage, by putting up *sensible boundaries.*   :yes:

Now you don't have to worry about that call I think you knew you were going to get Thursday evening, if you'd bent to his wishes, and went up to charge his battery:  "Oh, I wound up not going out, after all."   :phoot:

Didi and Ray would do stuff like that and I swear, there are times you can hear the smug smirk, even over the phone.   :blowup:

Keep up the good work!   :righton:

:hug:

Oh yes I always say in my Dads head that £1 of his money equals one hour of my time......
Remember when he used to ask for lifts to the hospital when I worked miles away. I'd mean a day off with no pay. He'd often say "ok I'll pay your days wages if you lost money". Then offer me £20 ($25). Ummmm, gee thanks for that.....

Never ever seen anyone so tight in my life. Another of Dads "things" - saving money for the sake of it.


Adrianna

My father is tight with his money too. I stay away from him as much as possible so he hired help to do his housekeeping, laundry, etc. My mother used to do it all before she died. Once she was gone, I told him zero chance I'm doing it for you. You have money. I'm too busy taking care of your mother. He told me years ago she's my responsibility not his.  He feels that he did his time with her, paid his dues, and now it's my turn.  Once she took his name off the house and put mine on he walked away from her. They do talk occasionally though.  Nana told him recently he should find someone he trusts to be in charge of his affairs. I called and said if you don't want me, your only child, in charge that's fine. He said Nana's just stirring up trouble. Growing up the two of them would gang up on me for whatever reason. I used to ask my mother growing up all the time what's wrong with them. I know now. I sadly don't trust either of them.

I know he hates paying people to do things for him but oh well. He has money hoarded and it'll all probably go to the nursing home one day since he refuses to do any estate planning. His house too is not protected. I told him I don't care about his money (he was shocked) but it would be nice if he did something to leave some to my son. I don't expect him to do anything though. He wants control. It took me getting on my hands and knees LITERALLY on the dining room carpet (in front of him and my son) recently to get him to agree to put our names on the bank accounts. This doesn't protect the money, just makes it so that I can write a check and pay his bills if he's incapable.  Such degradation. I had been asking him for over two years. He said get up off the floor begging. I said you fucking love it. I left the house I'm tears. Half an hour later my fathers calling me demanding I go back down to fix his computer! Like nothing just happened! I said ummm no. I was at the gym on the treadmill running my anger off from having to get on my hands and knees earlier. I went outside the gym on the cellphone and said dad, do you even CARE about me and my son?

Silence.

Then "wellll, you know.,..."

I said forget it. I got my answer.

I've finally accepted not all parents are capable of caring for their children.

Before my mother died, she told me she had a life insurance policy with my and my father's name on it. Told me it was in her bureau. After she died he cashed it in and kept all the money. I was the second beneficiary apparently so I'd only get it if he wasn't alive. I asked him if he'd share some with me and he said no, then pointed to her purse and said she keeps some cash in her purse, you can have that. I think it was $200. Her life insurance was I think $25,000.

He has money in the bank, plenty, but cries poverty. It's beyond frustrating.

When planning my mother's funeral, he didn't want to get a minister at all then balked at paying the customary $350. As it was the funeral was delayed then when we were ready to have it he didn't want to have one at all. "Too hard" for him. The funeral place was going to start charging him storage fees to hold my mother's ashes! I finally got him to agree to the service but it was a fight. The funeral director couldn't give me the ashes since they belonged to him. He ended up in ER then hospital the day before her service so didn't attend which was fine with me. Before she died he didn't go to the hospital to visit her the entire 3 weeks she was there and wasn't there the day she died. He left it all to me. Then wanted me to id her body after she died. I refused. I'd been through enough. I don't think he has any understanding or concern how difficult it was for me to have to watch my mother die. It was just me and the nurse in the room. He was home watching tv. It was Christmas Day by the way.

Also years ago I was donating some clothes to homeless veterans. He had a bunch of underwear in packages which he will never wear. They are briefs and he only wears boxers now. I said can I donate them to the veterans since they're still in packages? Someone could use them. His answer?

"You can have them when I'm dead."

Nana on the other hand will give someone the shirt off her back and has been generous with money. If someone wants something in her house, she'll give it to them. So it's not a pd thing necessarily. Just part of who they are as people.
Practice an attitude of gratitude.

p123

Quote from: Adrianna on October 15, 2019, 05:14:58 AM
My father is tight with his money too. I stay away from him as much as possible so he hired help to do his housekeeping, laundry, etc. My mother used to do it all before she died. Once she was gone, I told him zero chance I'm doing it for you. You have money. I'm too busy taking care of your mother. He told me years ago she's my responsibility not his.  He feels that he did his time with her, paid his dues, and now it's my turn.  Once she took his name off the house and put mine on he walked away from her. They do talk occasionally though.  Nana told him recently he should find someone he trusts to be in charge of his affairs. I called and said if you don't want me, your only child, in charge that's fine. He said Nana's just stirring up trouble. Growing up the two of them would gang up on me for whatever reason. I used to ask my mother growing up all the time what's wrong with them. I know now. I sadly don't trust either of them.

I know he hates paying people to do things for him but oh well. He has money hoarded and it'll all probably go to the nursing home one day since he refuses to do any estate planning. His house too is not protected. I told him I don't care about his money (he was shocked) but it would be nice if he did something to leave some to my son. I don't expect him to do anything though. He wants control. It took me getting on my hands and knees LITERALLY on the dining room carpet (in front of him and my son) recently to get him to agree to put our names on the bank accounts. This doesn't protect the money, just makes it so that I can write a check and pay his bills if he's incapable.  Such degradation. I had been asking him for over two years. He said get up off the floor begging. I said you fucking love it. I left the house I'm tears. Half an hour later my fathers calling me demanding I go back down to fix his computer! Like nothing just happened! I said ummm no. I was at the gym on the treadmill running my anger off from having to get on my hands and knees earlier. I went outside the gym on the cellphone and said dad, do you even CARE about me and my son?

Silence.

Then "wellll, you know.,..."

I said forget it. I got my answer.

I've finally accepted not all parents are capable of caring for their children.

Before my mother died, she told me she had a life insurance policy with my and my father's name on it. Told me it was in her bureau. After she died he cashed it in and kept all the money. I was the second beneficiary apparently so I'd only get it if he wasn't alive. I asked him if he'd share some with me and he said no, then pointed to her purse and said she keeps some cash in her purse, you can have that. I think it was $200. Her life insurance was I think $25,000.

He has money in the bank, plenty, but cries poverty. It's beyond frustrating.

When planning my mother's funeral, he didn't want to get a minister at all then balked at paying the customary $350. As it was the funeral was delayed then when we were ready to have it he didn't want to have one at all. "Too hard" for him. The funeral place was going to start charging him storage fees to hold my mother's ashes! I finally got him to agree to the service but it was a fight. The funeral director couldn't give me the ashes since they belonged to him. He ended up in ER then hospital the day before her service so didn't attend which was fine with me. Before she died he didn't go to the hospital to visit her the entire 3 weeks she was there and wasn't there the day she died. He left it all to me. Then wanted me to id her body after she died. I refused. I'd been through enough. I don't think he has any understanding or concern how difficult it was for me to have to watch my mother die. It was just me and the nurse in the room. He was home watching tv. It was Christmas Day by the way.

Also years ago I was donating some clothes to homeless veterans. He had a bunch of underwear in packages which he will never wear. They are briefs and he only wears boxers now. I said can I donate them to the veterans since they're still in packages? Someone could use them. His answer?

"You can have them when I'm dead."

Nana on the other hand will give someone the shirt off her back and has been generous with money. If someone wants something in her house, she'll give it to them. So it's not a pd thing necessarily. Just part of who they are as people.

Dads tightness is legendary. His excuse "I was poor when I was young so dont want to waste it now". Great attitude eh?

I've given up telling him anything over a certain amount WILL be taken off him if he goes into care home. His attitude - I'm never going into a care home then. Well you ain't moving in with me! Sometimes I wonder how someone can be quite so stupid.



Hazy111

Nana on the other hand will give someone the shirt off her back and has been generous with money. If someone wants something in her house, she'll give it to them. So it's not a pd thing necessarily. Just part of who they are as people.

It is a PD thing. My father is very tight and my mother who was uBPD (hermit/waif)  was the same. Give you the shirt off her back also. Lived in rags. Never spent a penny on herself. I admired her for that , a complete contrast to my Dad. Then after reading "Understanding the  i realised it was part of her   

Hazy111

*Apologies  Previous post should have read "Understanding the Borderline Mother" and Shari Schreiber ?? it was part of her victim/martyr act. Poor me,, i give stuff/money away,,, im a righteous person, therefore   im a good person........Admire me......Narcissistic supply. (See most religions for these people)

Non PD people are neither tight nor over generous. They are sensible grown up adults. Money and possessions do not dictate their life. They neither hoard nor give away compulsorily.

Adrianna

Interesting Hazy! I just bought that book and will be reading it soon. I never thought of it like that.
Practice an attitude of gratitude.

Hazy111

Adrianna,, "UTBM" A tough  tough read. When i read it, the scales fell from my eyes, like no therapy ever could.  At last everything started to make sense........like everything.

If you're interested in BPD ,, I would also strongly suggest ShariSchreiber on the internet. She writes very very well on the subject, much Like Sam Vaknin does on Narcissists.

"All Borderlines are narcissistic, but all narcissists arent Borderlines"

These quotes below are from an article of hers on the "Waif"  (my mother and a few exes!!! ).. Why i fell for these women!

If your Borderline Waif can't get you to rescue her by acting helpless, hopeless and pitiful, he/she will shame you, shut you out or rage at you. Waifs are frustrated when their "poor me" tactics fail to get them what they want--and that's when you get lambasted for being a "bad" lover, friend, son, daughter, therapist, etc. The waif mother persistently controls her children in this way. If they don't respond to her victim/martyr act, there's literally hell to pay! The rejection, shame and guilt her children are forced to endure, isn't worth the anguish of failing to respond to her demands.

Since 'helplessness' is the Waif's core emotional theme, options and choices that are healthier or more productive, are generally avoided. Perhaps your lover is continuously struggling with some sort of drama or challenge, and you've repeatedly offered sound suggestions and tried to help--but to no avail. As difficult as this is to fathom, when you throw a life preserver to a Waif, she ignores/disregards it (throws it back), or resents the gesture.

Adrianna

Practice an attitude of gratitude.

Andeza

Yup, that's UbpdM in a nutshell. Here, take the life preserver! "oh but I tried that..." and repeat, and repeat, into infinity and beyond.  :stars:
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.

MyLifeToo

Quote from: Andeza on October 16, 2019, 11:10:34 AM
Yup, that's UbpdM in a nutshell. Here, take the life preserver! "oh but I tried that..." and repeat, and repeat, into infinity and beyond.  :stars:

Oh my goodness! Yes, a million times yes! I think I'd better read that book.

A quick example: it took me months to persuade her to get her groceries online and delivered. At first I suspect know she was reluctant because it meant I wouldn't be manipulated to go visit. "Oh but I must go out",  "Oh, poor me, I can't go out, but I need to choose my own produce", excuse on excuse. Eventually when i wouldn't drive over 2 hours to get her shopping she relented. Her shopping was duly delivered, she was relieved, I was too! This lasted about 3 deliveries. Now I get "but you have to be here because I can't put it all away"! Of course she can. If she can get it out of the cupboards to eat it, she can certainly reach to put it in.  :doh:


p123

Quote from: MyLifeToo on October 16, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
Quote from: Andeza on October 16, 2019, 11:10:34 AM
Yup, that's UbpdM in a nutshell. Here, take the life preserver! "oh but I tried that..." and repeat, and repeat, into infinity and beyond.  :stars:

Oh my goodness! Yes, a million times yes! I think I'd better read that book.

A quick example: it took me months to persuade her to get her groceries online and delivered. At first I suspect know she was reluctant because it meant I wouldn't be manipulated to go visit. "Oh but I must go out",  "Oh, poor me, I can't go out, but I need to choose my own produce", excuse on excuse. Eventually when i wouldn't drive over 2 hours to get her shopping she relented. Her shopping was duly delivered, she was relieved, I was too! This lasted about 3 deliveries. Now I get "but you have to be here because I can't put it all away"! Of course she can. If she can get it out of the cupboards to eat it, she can certainly reach to put it in.  :doh:

Oh this is my life....

He likes things from a certain supermarket (Morrisons for those in the uk). Co-incidentally theres one 1/2 mile from my house but none with 15 miles of his house. Funny that eh?

I bought him a chest freezer. He likes these certain frozen meals from morrisons. So he asks me get his shopping and spends around £20-£25. Theres like one layer of food in his freezer like 5% full.

In the past, when I've bought more hes tried to tell me "he didnt think food would keep more than a week in the freezer" (no-one is that stupid), and "he doesn't want to spend more money in one go" (hes got £40K in the bank. Its a scam to play the old "got no food in the house" trick.

I've tried the home delivery. I do On Call at work and I told I'm not visiting if I've been working all night. All sorts of excuses "I'm not paying for delivery" (its £2 - its cheaper than me driving 50 miles round trip, "I dont want strangers knocking my door" (hope the post office never have a parcel then!).

One day I did get called and couldn't go. Week leading up he was "desperate for food", "you really need to make an effort this weekend". Hate those comments.
So It happened - no chance of me visiting, I'll order online for you Dad since you're SO short of food.

"Oh I've checked and I'll manage after all". I was fuming mad. He does not want to open pandoras box of home delivery because it means he loses some guilt trip power.




MyLifeToo

Quote from: p123 on October 17, 2019, 03:47:07 AM
Quote from: MyLifeToo on October 16, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
Quote from: Andeza on October 16, 2019, 11:10:34 AM
Yup, that's UbpdM in a nutshell. Here, take the life preserver! "oh but I tried that..." and repeat, and repeat, into infinity and beyond.  :stars:

Oh my goodness! Yes, a million times yes! I think I'd better read that book.

A quick example: it took me months to persuade her to get her groceries online and delivered. At first I suspect know she was reluctant because it meant I wouldn't be manipulated to go visit. "Oh but I must go out",  "Oh, poor me, I can't go out, but I need to choose my own produce", excuse on excuse. Eventually when i wouldn't drive over 2 hours to get her shopping she relented. Her shopping was duly delivered, she was relieved, I was too! This lasted about 3 deliveries. Now I get "but you have to be here because I can't put it all away"! Of course she can. If she can get it out of the cupboards to eat it, she can certainly reach to put it in.  :doh:

Oh this is my life....

He likes things from a certain supermarket (Morrisons for those in the uk). Co-incidentally theres one 1/2 mile from my house but none with 15 miles of his house. Funny that eh?

I bought him a chest freezer. He likes these certain frozen meals from morrisons. So he asks me get his shopping and spends around £20-£25. Theres like one layer of food in his freezer like 5% full.

In the past, when I've bought more hes tried to tell me "he didnt think food would keep more than a week in the freezer" (no-one is that stupid), and "he doesn't want to spend more money in one go" (hes got £40K in the bank. Its a scam to play the old "got no food in the house" trick.

I've tried the home delivery. I do On Call at work and I told I'm not visiting if I've been working all night. All sorts of excuses "I'm not paying for delivery" (its £2 - its cheaper than me driving 50 miles round trip, "I dont want strangers knocking my door" (hope the post office never have a parcel then!).

One day I did get called and couldn't go. Week leading up he was "desperate for food", "you really need to make an effort this weekend". Hate those comments.
So It happened - no chance of me visiting, I'll order online for you Dad since you're SO short of food.

"Oh I've checked and I'll manage after all". I was fuming mad. He does not want to open pandoras box of home delivery because it means he loses some guilt trip power.

:stars:
p123, I think we need to get your F and my M together! I've noticed so many similarities in your posts, both in their behaviour as our unwillingness to hurt their feelings. They could try to out-waif each other, lol.  M has now decided she only really like food from M&S, who, of course, don't have a delivery service. She's got plenty of money, could afford taxis, could afford to pay for help, but denies she really needs it. :roll: