How do you initially tell uBPD spouse you are leaving?

[ChevyChase]

I am married 22 years wife I suspect is uBPD.  Two kids 14 and 12.


I am filing for divorce.  I have a good lawyer who understands BPD, a lease on a house suitable for the kids 1 mile away in the same school district that starts Nov 1, I have a separate checking and savings account and credit card just in my name set up.


How do I have that initial conversation I am leaving?  Is it a conversation only once I can go to the other house?  I want her to get a lawyer and I want the kids half time even as we are separated but recognize I may be lonely for a bit depending on her attorney.  I know to have the first conversation in a public place not at the house.  But I am lost beyond that.


How do we or at least I tell the kids?  I can only imagine what negative things she is going to say about me when I am not there. 


Funny this specific talk is not well covered in all the BPD books?


Any advice is much appreciated!

[GettingOOTF]

My ex was diagnosed with BPD. I was “lucky” in that after he was hospitalized for the second time I refused to let him come back.

He was very volatile and I was afraid of him and his mood swings. I waited until he was a settled as he’d ever likely be and I called him and told him I was filing for divorce.

The entire process took over two years. We had no kids and no assets. It should have been the quickest divorce possible. I took things slowly and basically did what I needed to keep him calm and moving forward.

My advice would be to wait until you are settled and have somewhere to physically separate yourself. You don’t want to be in the same space as her while she processes.  My ex threatened suicide and violence. At the time I was in therapy and  I worked with my therapist who understood his diagnosis and also had experience with him personally on how to approach conversations and to ensure I was safe. If you don’t have a therapist I’d highly recommend getting one to support you.

Be careful. People with BPD can be very volatile. Part of the condition is that they fear rejection more than anything, so a divorce is probably her worst nightmare and she may feel like she has nothing to lose. Keep this in mind during all interactions with her. Try not to get dragged into any arguments. State your case and leave.

Have a plan to keep the kids safe. Speak to your attorney about your legal rights if you need to remove them from her home.

Good luck.

[ChevyChase]

Thanks GettingOOTF.  Great stuff there.

I am suddenly finding myself wanting to start this immediately even though it has been constant fighting the past few years.

[Kat54]

I would tell the kids on your own. Not sure how your wife will be if both of you are there. Could she go off the rails in front of them and has she done anything like that before?  You want to minimize the drama and heated encounters for your children's sake.

I had the first conversation out at a restaurant because I knew he wouldn't cause a scene in public. To make sure I was being 100% clear with him I had a second conversation alone with him in the house, the kids were not around and I said I was moving to my sisters.  He didn't put up any fight or argument. He lamely offered to move out, but in the next breath said he had nowhere to go. 

As far as telling your kids. Be honest but DO NOT say anything bad about your wife. My ex is a uNPD person and the drama would of been off the charts in front of them.  Since they are adults they chose to stay in the house with him and I left.

Your spouse bashing you to your children, that's the hardest part as you don't have a lot of control over it.  All you can do is keep presenting yourself as the stable one.
I told my kids emphatically if you need to ask me something that is upsetting for you about the divorce process, or you don't understand or feel confused I will tell you as honestly as possible what is happening. I'll never lie to you, you will always have a home, and we both love you very much.  My ex has told my daughter they will be out on the street if he can't buy me out of our house....his drama.  And he's told her out right lies that I had to clear up.
Its going to be a difficult road, just stay honest and don't bash. Be someone they can rely on. Good luck to you!

[ChevyChase]

Kat54,

Thanks.  Great point on trying to minimize the drama.  I will have to work on logistics as my wife works part-time from home.

And no spouse bashing, so true!  I sincerely hope when I am out of the house my kids will see that I am stable and finally happy. 

[Lotus8]

I agree with everyone here. Do not have the conversation alone with her or in your home with your children.

I told my children (10, 15, 16), separately beforehand. But i made the mistake of telling my uBPDh at home, while my daughter was home. I asked my babysitter to come and watch a movie with her because I thought he would not react if someone else was in the house. Unfortunately, he flipped out. Screaming, calling me every bad name in the book, threatening me, punching walls, and chasing me around the house. My sitter called the police. My daughter and I stayed in a hotel that evening.

He later told the children that I am crazy and it's my fault, among other horrible things.

Sounds like you are preparing as best you can. It's not an easy road, but keep thinking of a "normal" life ahead. Good luck to you!!

[ChevyChase]

Thanks Lotus8.  Really helpful.  I will have to think about how to tell the kids first.  Maybe I take them out to breakfast and then show them my rental (house in the same school district a mile away) and tell them, then drop them off in a safe location (friends house) and tell my wife while outside on a walk or something. 

I didn't think about telling the kids first because I didn't want them to have a secret they had to keep from their mother, but this way they can process the news for a bit away from her while she behaves the way I anticipate she will behave.

[Poison Ivy]

I have adult children.  I told them after I told my then husband.  They don't live at home, and I knew they might be upset but wouldn't be surprised at the news.  I called them on the same afternoon but in separate calls to tell them.

[ChevyChase]

Thanks Poison Ivy.  I think the kids will also be upset but not surprised. 

[pushit]

My kids are younger than yours, (8,6,3) at the time of the divorce earlier this year.  Too young to tell them about it beforehand.  So, my story is a little different but I'll share it.

My exPDw was really ramping things up and getting crazier than ever near the end.  There was no way to have a discussion about it.  My lawyer advised me to stay in the house as long as possible after I had her served with papers.  The night before she was served, I woke up at 3 AM because all the lights were on.  She was standing over me like Cathy Bates in the movie Misery, then she proceeded to go off on me about a number of things.  (The gist of it was that she emptied our bank accounts for something she wanted and filed her taxes separately and took all our deductions, then blamed her reasons for doing this on me...geez, thanks honey!)  That morning at 6 AM she got physically abusive with me when I tried to come upstairs and make my coffee.  She said I wasn't allowed to leave the basement, which is sadly where I slept during the last three years of our marriage.  I mitigated that situation by telling her I was going to call the police, then I waited until she left to take the kids to school.  I packed my few remaining items, and left for work.  I called my lawyer on the way to work and told him I'm never sleeping in that house again so we went to Plan B.  I got a hotel, then a rental house a few days later.

The point of all that is this:  Even without telling them, my kids are doing great now and I think they understand on some level even at their age.  Things were brutal in our house and now we're all doing much better.  We were able to settle the divorce with 50/50 parenting time (I would have gone for more but it's impossible to prove her emotional abuse of everyone).  I think the biggest thing is that I'm a much happier person now, and I can be the dad I want to be during my parenting time.  The kids and I have a MUCH stronger connection now, because she's not around to interfere.  And...it's only been 7 months since I left. 

I suspect that your kids are well aware of the dysfunction in your home.  If you're already planning to leave (and it sounds like you are) then just do it however you need to do it.  The kids will get it pretty quickly, and you will change into a better dad and have a better relationship with them.

One last thought - My lawyer pushed me to be very assertive with parenting time in the beginning, and it worked out well.  It didn't allow her to control things.  Don't ask to see the kids, tell her you are their father and you deserve your fair share of time, and they need you.  Heck, I took my oldest to a hockey game the day after I had her served.  She complied.  Why?  Because there were lawyers involved, it's all public now.  Man, thinking back - She pulled all kinds of crazy stuff while I was stable, and she ended up on the defensive while I was the one that "manned up" and took care of the kids.  If your lawyer understand PD then you're in a good place.  Be assertive, don't back down.

Funny this specific talk is not well covered in all the BPD books?

Interesting you mention that.  I bought the book "Splitting: Protecting yourself while divorcing someone with NPD or BPD".  I thought the same thing.  I felt that book was very basic, and was written more for someone that didn't know their partner was PD at the time of divorce.  There should probably be more written about how to leave someone with PD.  It ain't pretty...

[ChevyChase]

Pushit, thanks for sharing.  I especially appreciate your experience with the kids.  I think I am not giving them enough credit, and that they will want to leave and spend time with me.

[ChevyChase]

Update -

I took Friday off of work.  I told my wife I was moving out on Friday morning (we were out on a walk in the neighborhood).  She held it together for about six hours before she really lost it, not surprisingly about when the kids were then home from school.  I told the kids Friday late afternoon, mom was there with me crying.  There was a lot of crying by all of us, not going to lie.  Telling my kids was the hardest thing I have ever done.  The first two hours were horrific, the pain they felt, but they seem to have calmed down much better than my wife.  My son even went with me to pick up dinner that evening, for example.

There was a lot of begging on her part for me to stay, saying I didn't give her a heads up, I had to hide my keys, phones, wallet so she wouldn't take them, incessant grovelling on her part that I stay while we try to work it out.  I would be woken by her constantly through the night with her crying, screaming, begging, threatening, the whole spectrum.  There were some calm conversations at times that highlighted how much pain we were each in.  She said there were some things she couldn't share with me (after 22 years of marriage what can't you share with me I am thinking).  I stayed certain in moving out, but agreed to see a marriage counselor with her while I was out.

I moved out Sunday while wife took kids out to dinner.   I took my daughter to her lesson Sunday, and  I took my son to his meeting last night , and will be at the house on Thursday for dinner.

The pain was much worse than I thought with the kids, and I have had a couple "WTF am I doing moments" in the rental house, but one day at a time.

It's not easy but I have taken the first step to being happy and setting a good example for my children.

[Penny Lane]

That's great progress! Proud of you! A very hard step but ultimately I think it will lead to a better life for you and the kids.

[ChevyChase]

Update-

The manipulation to get me to move back home is overwhelming.  Today the text was "I am so pained that our children are in crisis.  They are feeling so terribly hurt and the only thing they want is you to come home."    Using the children to get what she wants (to move back home). 

I don't doubt that the children are hurt, and I make sure to tell them and text them that I love them and that I am here for them.

It's really tough to hear this - when my wife and I talk on the phone it's constant how I've ruined the family, how I've permanently damaged the kids, how I have done all this because I chose to move out.  No recognition that she may have responsibility in the state of our relationship. 

I have decided to limit conversations and mainly text.  Mainly for the legal record. 

[pushit]

Good for you, I know how hard it is!!  Especially if your wife is laying on the guilt about "what you're doing to the kids".  It's great that you recognize the dynamic there, that she is blaming everything on you while taking zero responsibility for her actions. 

I would suggest just concentrating on the kids.  Make sure it is crystal clear to them that it's not their fault and you're always there for them.  Sounds like you're already doing that anyways.  I've found it important to make sure I show up for everything I can.  Every crazy little school activity that I don't have time for, I'm there.  Even if it sounds silly to us it means a lot to them to see you care.

Shortly after I left I had one phone conversation with my exPDw.  It was all manipulation on her part to try and get me to give in on a number of things.  I cut that phone call short and told her I would only communicate in writing from now on.  I haven't spoken to her on the phone in almost 8 months now.  I see her at kid events and such, and sometimes she will approach me to try and "coordinate" something.  It's always something she doesn't want in writing because she's trying to get her way.  When that happens I tell her I'll think about it and get back to her, then I respond with my side of things via email.  Just some other ideas you can try.  It really helps my sanity to create distance in our communications.

[Kat54]

Its amazing, yet not really, that the other spouse can't see what roll they have played in the break down of the marriage. Laying on the guilt about ruining the kids, yeah been there, its hard to hear. Kids are surprisingly resilient. So concentrate on them, not on your ex, that's over.

At the end for me, I asked my ex to try and see how what he does affects our family and how we treat each other. I was trying to have him accept some responsibility. He would not and insisted it was my fault and this was "my thing" and also said. "sorry I can't help you".  I accepted my responsibility, yep I gave up on trying to save the marriage and I walked out and hurt him deeply.

Keep contact with her to a minimum as it also helps you get Out of the FOG. When your life starts becoming your own and you have stepped back from the relationship, it becomes more clear. At least it did for my situation.  Continued good luck to you moving forward.

[capybara]

I am also feeling the pressure to reconcile and it is very hard. I agree, it is best to just minimize discussion of anything emotional, and focus on the kids. Their mother may be saying terrible things about you to them, that you have abandoned them, left them penniless, etc. Please be sure that you are seeing them often and they can get in touch with you if they feel unsafe with their mother.

[ChevyChase]

Update:

6 weeks after moving out, mentally happier and healthier than I was the past few years.

I cannot go into the house as I am subjected to verbal abuse, called a runaway dad, breaking up the family, etc.  I let the kids know I am here to get them and then wait outside.  If I go into the house and stay she gets all dolled up and tries to make it as if we're a family again - way too confusing and mixed messages so I don't go into the house.

I cannot talk to my stbxw on the phone, it's just about how much pain I have caused, do I know what I have done, how could one person have so much capacity to cause so much pain.  Except for the calls when she is crying apologizing that all the signs are there, she loves me and misses me and just wants to hold me and she will do anything to make this marriage work. I tell her politely but firmly that the marriage is over and that I will not be reconciling, and then she calls me a despicable human being in front of the kids.  Lovely.  The parental alienation and trashing of me is beyond description.

Filing the complaint to start legal proceedings because she refuses to get a lawyer or respond to my lawyer's request to set up an interim child sharing agreement.  Only way to see the kids is to go get them and take them out, even though they won't go to my house.  She constantly undermines every attempt to take them out, if we are going out to dinner she will make their favorite meal, etc.

I see her patterns much more clearly than ever before, but admit the pain of not seeing the kids is really tough.  But I remind myself that the long term gain of the kid's well being and my happiness is worth it in the short term.

[hhaw]

CC:

Why won't the kids go to your home?  You should be able to get in the kitchen with them, decorate for the holiday with them, let them pick out sheets, and have rooms they're comfortable and feel safe it, IMO.

Are the kids afraid of their mother's reaction?

It's really sad, and you're doing great, btw.  Just keep heading toward that exit door.  Remind your kids everyone's going to be OK.... even Mom.  Different, but OK. 

Don't ever say a negative thing about the mom,  or even true thing.... let the kids say those things, and they likely will share if they aren't feeling defensive.   You don't strike me as someone who would, but had to say it, bc sometimes the stbx pd torquing on our children can make us aaaaannnnnggggry, and rightly so, IME.

So sorry you're going through this, and I'll resist saying "at Christmas," which is when I filed too.

This too shall pass.

[NumbLotus]

I don't know anything but I feel like this "kids can't go anywhere with you or to your home" crap needs to be nipped in the bud. You have absolutely equal rights to YOUR children. IMAGINE you telling your wife she can't take the children anywhere except your house. IMAGINE.

If it's coming from the kids themselves, I think I'd ask them if they feel nervous. And then ask them how they feel about maybe driving by the new place and just seeing it from the car window - and then that's it, no pressure to look inside today. And then maybe next time just look inside for a  minute. And then maybe another time go grab some takeout somewhere, take it in to eat, and then leave.

I would hate to set a precedent like this, though, like you aren't their FATHER.