Should I contact his ex?

CagedBirdSinging · October 15, 2019, 02:57:06 PM

I am close to making a decision on leaving UBPD husband. We have two very young kids. I cannot put up with the mood swings and manipulation any more. There is no conversation in my home. He has made it clear that my family and friends are not welcome. His temper can come out of nowhere, and the verbal/emotional abuse is brutal. He's currently trying to get a diagnosis of ASD, and is faking all sorts of symptoms in order to get this to fly with the doc, which is just unreal....

Two questions if anyone would mind helping me please:

He was married once before, and when we met he sold me this sob story about how she walked out on him 'for no reason.' I felt sorry for him. Now I know better. I have always wanted to hear his ex-wife's side of the story. He is so manipulative and sometimes has me questioning my own sanity, thinking 'is it me?' Recently I searched and came across his ex-wife's email address in a People Finder website. I am so tempted to contact her to ask her about her experience. If she's had the same ordeal as me, it would really help give me the confidence to leave. Should I reach out to her? The only thing is, I would be really frightened what would happen if it somehow got back to him that I'd contacted his ex. Should I wait till we have left? Or not go down this road at all?

Second question: he is so two faced, it is insane, and I am really worried about parental alienation. Already I can see how he turns on the charm with the kids. He is a completely different person with them to how he is with everyone else. I am scared he will continue to charm them (as he did when I first met him - I fell for it so why wouldn't they?) What if he turns them against me? Is there any way I can stop this from happening?

Thanks so much

GettingOOTF · October 15, 2019, 03:20:24 PM

I was married to a man with BPD.

1. If my BPDxh’s partner contacted me I wouldn’t respond. At all. I left him. It was really really hard and I don’t want the drama in my life again. Years later I am still working through getting over the awful things that happened in my marriage. I have neither the desire nor the mental and emotional capacity to deal with someone else’s fallout from their relationship with him.

Your experiences are yours. They are valid and the truth. You don’t need an ex to validate them. What happens if you find out he was worse to her? Will it make you doubt your own experiences? Will you be tempted to give him another chance? Trust yourself. I have been married to someone with BPD. I promise you that everything you think happened to you did and in exactly the way you think it did. You didn’t provoke or deserve it and there is better waiting for you.

And if I’m 100% honest there’s a good chance I would downplay how bad it was. I know that sounds terrible, but one of my biggest fears is that he breaks up with his new partner and starts in on me again. I need to protect myself. His ex may feel the same. I also would wonder if my ex somehow out her up to it. There’s is no way I’d support her in leaving him or be honest about my experiences. Just absolutely no way. It’s too risky.

2. Children need consistency, stability and to have their experiences validated. They need a stable presence in their lives. It doesn’t matter how fun and attentive he is to them now, he can’t sustain it. As they grow and start asserting their own personalities more, developing their own interests he won’t be able to sustain this behavior. There is nothing you can do except to be a stable, accepting and loving presence in their lives. Play the long game. Your kids will figure out who the safe, reliable parent is.

Hang in there. You’ve got this. Have faith in yourself and your relationship with your children.

CagedBirdSinging · October 15, 2019, 03:36:30 PM

Thanks, you're right. From her point of view I'm sure it's the last thing she needs. I suppose it's just my way of seeking validation and support for what is a scary decision. But you're totally right... I hadn't thought that one through.

I can probably guess what his previous marriage was like, based on this one. Hearing it from her would not neccesarily help, apart from showing him to be the liar I already know he is.

Thanks for your feedback about my children. That's the type of response I've read from lots of people on this forum. Children need stability in their lives. You're right, he can't keep it up. And when he flips the switch, at least they will have the refuge of my loving home to come back to. If I stay with him, they will have no refuge and no escape. I cannot tolerate that life for them.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it - and sorry if I brought up painful memories for you. I am so glad to hear that you were able to get out of your marriage. It can't have been easy but sounds like you're doing great.

Penny Lane · October 15, 2019, 04:18:01 PM

Hi again CagedBirdSinging,
I'm glad to hear from you again and to see that your plans are progressing!

On the alienation front, you are very right to be concerned about this and it's very common. The good news is that you can combat it. If you do leave, I highly recommend two books: Don't Alienate the Kids! by Bill Eddy and Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak. The first one is more about preventing alienation, the second about recognizing it and undoing it.

I would say the general gist is that you shouldn't be too passive (ie let false statements go uncorrected) or to aggressive (telling the kids they have to believe you vs your ex). Instead you assertively correct falsehoods and you encourage your kids to develop their own critical thinking and problem solving skills. They both give some practical tips for this. Like, when you're watching a movie together, ask the kids critical thinking questions about why characters are doing something, whether it's a good idea, etc. Basically you can't stop him from being terrible but you can equip your kids with the tools to deal with it in a healthy manner. I'm not going to lie, it is HARD, and it's a marathon not a sprint. But you can create a situation that allows your kids to thrive, despite your ex.

On the contacting the ex: What if I just told you "she experienced the exact same thing as you did"? Would that help? I don't know the answer, obviously none of us does, but I think it's very likely. I think the fact that he describes it as her suddenly leaving makes it MORE likely. That sounds like the behavior of a victim trying to escape. I think GettingOOTF raises reasonable concerns about the idea of contacting her. But maybe you can get that validation you're looking for anyway.

Medowynd · October 15, 2019, 11:37:50 PM

I was the e-xwife that my PD exH (with a never ending ego) arranged to have his fiance speak with me. I spent two hours describing the hell I lived with for nine years. She thought I was lying! One year later, I hear from a friend that this #3 wife has left the ex. She tells this friend, that her life with ex was even worse than what I had described to her. Her last words to my friend were that she wished that she had believed me.

The ex went on to marry two more times. The last one has been 20 years of hell for him. I very rarely hear about his life, but it brings a smile to my face, when I hear about what he is living with now.

CagedBirdSinging · October 21, 2019, 02:41:35 PM

Quote from: Penny Lane on October 15, 2019, 04:18:01 PM
Hi again CagedBirdSinging,
I'm glad to hear from you again and to see that your plans are progressing!

On the alienation front, you are very right to be concerned about this and it's very common. The good news is that you can combat it. If you do leave, I highly recommend two books: Don't Alienate the Kids! by Bill Eddy and Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak. The first one is more about preventing alienation, the second about recognizing it and undoing it.

I would say the general gist is that you shouldn't be too passive (ie let false statements go uncorrected) or to aggressive (telling the kids they have to believe you vs your ex). Instead you assertively correct falsehoods and you encourage your kids to develop their own critical thinking and problem solving skills. They both give some practical tips for this. Like, when you're watching a movie together, ask the kids critical thinking questions about why characters are doing something, whether it's a good idea, etc. Basically you can't stop him from being terrible but you can equip your kids with the tools to deal with it in a healthy manner. I'm not going to lie, it is HARD, and it's a marathon not a sprint. But you can create a situation that allows your kids to thrive, despite your ex.

On the contacting the ex: What if I just told you "she experienced the exact same thing as you did"? Would that help? I don't know the answer, obviously none of us does, but I think it's very likely. I think the fact that he describes it as her suddenly leaving makes it MORE likely. That sounds like the behavior of a victim trying to escape. I think GettingOOTF raises reasonable concerns about the idea of contacting her. But maybe you can get that validation you're looking for anyway.

Thanks again for your support. It was a bit of a daft idea I guess, wanting to contact his ex. I guess it comes down to the gaslighting I mentioned before. I am constantly bombarded by his version of events. He thinks that if he keeps telling me his narrative then I will believe him. So for example at the weekend he went from being fairly pleasant (by his standards anyway!) to suddenly being sullen, not speaking to anyone, clearly giving me the silent treatment. When I pulled him up on it, he said there was no problem, and made out that he was doing nothing wrong and I was imagining things. I would love to talk to his ex to hear her say 'he did the exact same to me, you're not crazy!' But of course, as you said I can use my powers of deduction to work out everything I need to know. She left suddenly, went to sleep on her mom's sofa, bringing her child with her, just before a major holiday... you don't do that unless you are being put through hell. Luckily for her, the child had a different father so she didn't have to deal with my PDH ever again. Having the kids with him makes it harder for me.

Anyway, thanks again. Things are becoming clearer for me.
Take care x

Boat Babe · October 23, 2019, 05:50:28 PM

Without meeting your ex's ex I would put good money on her having lived through hell as well.
I'm a real optimist and believe that, given the right circumstances, people can learn, grow and change. Many people do and it's a joy. However, the pathology of personality disordered people is such that they are unwilling/unable to look at themselves, which is the first, essential and unavoidable step in growth and maturity.
So, they don't change. And cause carnage wherever they go.
My ex was/is very promiscuous and it's a small town so I have had conversations with four of his exes and we all had a similar take of love bombing followed by insanity. They don't change. Tragic but true.
Trust your own story, and give yourself a happy ending.

Dear Abby · November 17, 2019, 11:52:33 PM

Caged Bird I wanted to share with you my personal experience regarding your question. In my journey through a few NPD significant others (I didn't know about Narcissism at the time, I just felt they were abusive) I have contacted the exes, the longest term exes and have found them more than happy to talk with me. They added clarity and clued me into some things I didn't know how they might play out.

Eventually it would come out that I had done this and my ex NPD boyfriend would have some choice words for his ex's behavior. Something cutting to negate her character. I probably couldn't wait to express my new damning information and ended up telling on myself long before the NPD found out otherwise about the conversation.

It was heart pounding to make that call. I'm thinking of one in particular and I was really nervous but we ended up talking for a long time. I think I had a goal in mind of something relevant to talk about and the conversation developed from there. I felt better having someone 'on my side'. You mentioned having her e-mail, the last time I did this e-mail wasn't as prevalent as it is now. If I were to do an e-mail today I would get totally comfortable with the idea that I will hear nothing in return. So no disappointment and if I did hear back it would be cake. Also you never know if the email is current .

It's easy for me to say all this in retrospect but in the heat of it is soo hard. I'm sorry you're going through this. It is agony.

CagedBirdSinging · November 19, 2019, 03:28:05 PM

Dear Abbey, thanks for your reply. Yes i was only going to email, then she could choose whether to reply or not. You're right, I just thought it might clarify a few things for me. My H is a narcissist too (diagnosed npd which I believe is unusual enough), and he can lie so convincingly that sometimes I think it's just me who has the problem... even though I know it's not.

I just thought his ex might help to clarify a few things about his past behaviour and his behaviour patterns, and might ultimately help me to find the courage to leave. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be more than happy to talk to someone and give any information that might be helpful. I know how hard my H is to deal with, how the abuse can be so subtle and so damaging to your confidence, and if some new wife came to me very upset and confused, with kids involved... sure I'd definitely tell her my side of the story. Hell I'd even meet her for coffee. I'd do anything I could to help.

More than anything I'd love to hear that his ex is doing really great and she's so much happier now. That would definitely spur me on to leave... but having read replies on here I'd now be worried about causing her offense. So I don't think I'll risk it. I guess i can just fill in the gaps and imagine her story.

Thanks again for sharing your story
X

GettingOOTF · November 19, 2019, 07:30:56 PM

His ex may not be doing the work you are doing. She likely ended up how most people do - in exactly the same situation she was in with her ex, possibly with someone worse.

You will do great! You are here doing the work and you have support from people on these boards who understand where you are and the steps on your journey.

Trust yourself and your instincts. You are strong enough to thrive without your ex or his exes validation.

NumbLotus · November 19, 2019, 10:33:47 PM

Quote from: CagedBirdSinging on October 15, 2019, 02:57:06 PM
'for no reason.'

This tells me all I need to know.

You know why the marriage ended. The dirty details don't matter.

Dear Abby · November 20, 2019, 10:16:11 AM

I hear you Caged Bird, about not wanting to deal with possibly offending an ex. That's a good point about the ex is probably in a similar relationship and you won't be because you're here now and starting a foundation to a sustainable recovery.

I am also like you, I would do anything to help. I have had a small number of opportunities when a girl will write me on social media or somewhere with query's about her boyfriend -- a guy I know. I always chat with them. It's awful to have to hit up a stranger because you don't know what your guy is up to. I have to say most every time I had no idea the guy even had a girlfriend.

I hope you're getting empowered from other's experiences on here!

CagedBirdSinging · November 20, 2019, 01:54:12 PM

Thanks NumbLotus, GettingOOTF and DearAbbey yes you're right... she didn't leave for no reason. I don't need validation from her. I need to trust my own instincts and validate my own experiences. Thanks for your support. I really hope you are right and I can learn to thrive without my NPDH. Being on this forum is so helpful. It's amazing to find people who actually understand what I've been going through.