Starting boundaries- does it feel good?

[p123]

I've started and, to be honest, I'm surprised (OK and I feel guilty).
Before I'd be terrified about not complying with Dads demands. I'd make excuse after excuse and justify everything.

Recently, I've started to say NO. OK I'm still not at the point where I just say one word NO. I do tend to make up little white lies like "I'm working". Yeh I know.
BUT, it feels good when I manage it. He tries it on, I say no, result achieved.

Xmas coming up is going to be a big one. Hes expecting an invite xmas day. Not happening after recent behaviour. Before I'd dread having the conversation. Now I'm scared but more like, "bring it on". Determined its not happening.

[newlife33]

You are normal in your feelings.  You were never trained to have boundaries, quite the opposite.  You were trained by him to be a doormat and an open book for abuse.

Now you are old enough to see the bullshit, and you are changing.  But years of conditioning dont go away overnight.  It's going to take practice.  My therapist said it would feel "foreign but good.", which is what I shoot for.  It feels un natural, but I know having boundaries is a skill and I need to practice and put a lot of effort into it.  It's been about 3 years NC and I am still developing my natural boundaries, and they are getting stronger everyday.  I wish you the same success.

[p123]

I'll be honest when he does something thats obviously wrong, it does empower me more to set boundaries. When hes acting ok, I feel guilty.

His latest. I've had back problems for a few weeks. Its serious but not massively. Its flared up this week - Im on max painkillers and still struggling to drive, to sleep etc. Im booked in for a spinal injection next week.

Told Dad all of this. "Oh, you're brother had that. Buy some of that stuff you rub on your back. It'll be fine in a day or two".
Umm no Dad, heat cream does not fix spinal stenosis -we're a bit past that.

So I tell him my wife is giving me a life to the office for a few days - I'd go sick but I dont get paid :-(
"Yes but you'll visit sunday to get my groceries wont you?"

To be honest, this is the first sunday in a month that my wife hasn;t worked. I could really do with NOT spending hours driving around doing his groceries either.
So what do I get when I say" "I'll see how my back is".

"Oh well, I hope you make an effort".

Thanks for the consideration for my health!!!!!

Im NOT going Sunday after that. No way.

[athene1399]

Starting to say no can be liberating IME. Your example of the back problems is exactly it, they won't take our feelings into consideration. What is important to us is not important to them, so they cant imagine it being important at all.

Hope your back gets better btw. And I wouldn't drive around in the car while you are trying to heal. Dont' feel guilty taking some time to rest. Physical things need time to heal. if you over do it, you'll hinder that.

I think giving reasons why you can't do something may fall into JADE, so be careful on what you say. This may be why he responded with "I hope you make an effort..." (which sounds like a guilt trip to me). So maybe try to come up with some medium chill/grey rock responses if you want to say more than just "no". 

I sometimes feel guilty for saying no, too, because I could make it happen. The old me would. But just because I can rearrange my schedule to make it work doesn't mean I always should. Especially if trying to rearrange what I have to do will stress me out. Over time, I feel better though and not as guilty. IMO, guilt is part of what's kept us doing what they wanted all the time. They trained us to do things becasue of guilt. I was taught my needs never matter, that everyone else's do. That's not fair to me.  When I think of my needs, I still feel a little selfish. It's difficult to break those old thoughts and learn new ways to see the world.

I am proud of you for starting to say no! 

[p123]

Starting to say no can be liberating IME. Your example of the back problems is exactly it, they won't take our feelings into consideration. What is important to us is not important to them, so they cant imagine it being important at all.

Hope your back gets better btw. And I wouldn't drive around in the car while you are trying to heal. Dont' feel guilty taking some time to rest. Physical things need time to heal. if you over do it, you'll hinder that.

I think giving reasons why you can't do something may fall into JADE, so be careful on what you say. This may be why he responded with "I hope you make an effort..." (which sounds like a guilt trip to me). So maybe try to come up with some medium chill/grey rock responses if you want to say more than just "no". 

I sometimes feel guilty for saying no, too, because I could make it happen. The old me would. But just because I can rearrange my schedule to make it work doesn't mean I always should. Especially if trying to rearrange what I have to do will stress me out. Over time, I feel better though and not as guilty. IMO, guilt is part of what's kept us doing what they wanted all the time. They trained us to do things becasue of guilt. I was taught my needs never matter, that everyone else's do. That's not fair to me.  When I think of my needs, I still feel a little selfish. It's difficult to break those old thoughts and learn new ways to see the world.

I am proud of you for starting to say no! 

Yep Im terrible for falling into the JADE trap. Hes trained me well over the years I guess!

Yeh it does help when I've got a valid reason not to go - like this. I can see how little he cares about my health (i.e. none)

[Starboard Song]

I do tend to make up little white lies like "I'm working". Yeh I know.

We call them white lies because they are innocent. And white lies make the world go round: "Honey, you are as beautiful as the day I met you," or "Goodness no, sweetie! I think you were perfectly funny at the party last night!," and "I love your bald head!"

So I for one applaud little white lies, here and there, when it helps to grease the skids. Boundaries need not be mean, or hostile. They needn't be argumentative. And the opposite of JADE is not haughtiness, or dismissive distance. The opposite of JADE can be kind and loving.

Good for you! As long as you achieve your good boundaries, and as long as doing so doesn't include JADEing or self-abasement, you are doing great stuff, and I admire it. Christmas will be a challenge, but you are going to do it ever so well. Give us an update when that comes round. Promise yourself to be able to come and tell us that maybe it was hard, but you did it! You maintained boundaries, and your space to thrive.

[StayWithMe]

You should not feel bad about "making up excuses" when saying no.  IMO, the worst (social) crime is to make a commitment and not keep it.  And worse, not give me a reasonable heads up.

It's taken me a while to be able to say no and not waffle afterwards.  I have had to supplement those "no's"  with additional language.  For example, it was very easy to press me into service.  That is expect me to clean up after family events.  Before I would say "how come you're not asking anybody else there to help clean up."  I would get the don't compare / it doesn't matter what other people do .......  I didn't have anything to say after that.  now I say "If I had not been here, what would you have done?"  I've never been challenged after that.  I don't need a free meal any more so no one should expect me to perform housekeeping (exclusively).

another way to help say no is to ask questions and maybe you will get info to help you say no.  In college I was dating a guy for a couple of months when he asked for the keys to "the" (my) car.  That was when I had a hard time saying no.  and of course, essentially I didn't want to let him have my car because I didn't trust him.  I asked him he why needed it.  He admitted to me that he had loaned his car to his ex gf.  Because she had kids --none of them his, he told me.  That put a real dent in our relationship.  And it also made it easier to say no.

sometimes  it's good to anticipate.  What if someone asks me to do whatever?  What will you say? 

[p123]

Trouble is I do tend to JADE too much....

Reason I do the white lies is that I know the day I just say NO - world war 3 will start. I guess I'm just a coward there!

[StayWithMe]

You're not a coward.  You are wise.

[p123]

You're not a coward.  You are wise.

Well, I think if I stopped it dead and said NO it would work. I just can't face WW3 in between to be honest....

I know what I should do - I just don't have the mental strength to do it. Like everyone says, hes got me trained for YEARS and hes  so used to getting his own way. Its tough.

[athene1399]

Trouble is I do tend to JADE too much....

I do too and I never realize it until I post a conversation with my family here and someone points it out. It's funny becasue I do not JADE with SO's BPD xw, but with my family I have no idea when I do it. It just kind of happens. But the first step to not JADE is noticing when you do it, even when it's after the fact. It takes a while to undo all that programming. It's totally ok to JADE. We just have to practice not doing it, but even if we still mess up and do it, that's okay too. It's hard work. But the more we work at it, the less and less we will JADE.

I don't think you are a coward either. We learn to pick and choose our battles. We know how the PD will react if we say no, so sometimes it is easier to just do what they say (unless we choose to go NC, but that's a different situation). That doesn't mean you are a coward. And sometimes we will decide that it is worth it to say no and throw out that excuse or mumble "i got stuff going on..."