What does OOTF Mean to You?

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Whatthehey

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What does OOTF Mean to You?
« on: October 24, 2019, 01:38:54 AM »
As I was driving home today from my therapy appointment, I wondered when I would be done.  When would I be completely OOTF - then I wondered what defines OOTF and what does it mean to me?  This is a goal of course - to be no longer reliant on therapy.  I have other life goals that I am steadily moving toward.  But underneath all of those goals, is this thread of when is my egg cooked?

For example, I originally defined myself OOTF as the moment I realized there was nothing I could do for him that would change his behavior and he choose to emotionally and financially abuse me.  That moment when I realized my marriage was over and I could never go back.

But today I wondered if OOTF could be defined as when his behaviors no longer influence me and I am free.

I think that the definition will change as I grow.  So now I am curious, what is your definition of being OOTF?  When will your egg be fully cooked?

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11JB68

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2019, 03:01:01 PM »
For me personally I always say I am coming ootf. Not that I'm out. For me it's a process, much like recovery (e.g. from an addiction)....one is always in recovery rather than recovered.

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Spygirl

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2019, 11:58:12 PM »
I would say a process too.

 if i ever get to a point where i am confident about my own thoughts and feelings about things, not needing others' approval to know if i am doing something correctly, that would be big.
Asserting myself when i know i am being bullied or someone tries to manipulate me, would be another.
Most important would be shrugging off  negative things that come across me, and instead of trying to get involved and "fix it", just be kind and allow the universe to handle it.

I bet this takes a few more years.

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athene1399

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2019, 09:23:24 AM »
I agree with JB and Spygirl that it is more like a process or "recovery". It's not linear, but we move back and forth from acceptance to being upset/grieving over people not being who we want them to be. OOTF for me meant I realized not just how mean my parents were to me at times but the effect it had on me, the partners I was attracted to and why, my own PD tendencies (I consider myself a BPD in recovery), and my alcoholism (I am also an alcoholic in recovery). It's also about not believing the narratives of my parents that I grew up with. For example, I started getting depression symptoms when I was 8 or 9. M told me I had no reason to be depressed because my life was perfect. I believed this up to 2 years ago (I'm in my mid-thirties). Then I questioned it and started connecting the dots.  Part of it is identifying negative thoughts I had, labeling them as "something M would say" and not my own thoughts, then replacing them with something more positive, something that is mine and not hers (or not my dad's).

Part of the process of OOTF is realizing my own behaviors and reactions. Some days I am on top of that, stay mindful, and prevent myself from doing BPDish things. Other days I don't realize until it's already happening. But that's ok. I'm a work in progress (so it's also about learning self-compassion).

So I guess it's about understanding trauma and complex trauma, what it does to you, and how to work through it, learning and growing. 

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Whatthehey

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2019, 09:31:23 PM »
Thank you 11, Spygirl and Athena,

You are right.  It is a process.  It is three steps forward and two steps back.  Slow and steady progress.  Understanding self and the PD.  That is comforting because it explains the high/lows and winding path.

But at what point did you realize that there was even a FOG around you?  What precipitated that event? 

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11JB68

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2019, 12:02:23 AM »
I think the first time I really realized something was very wrong with my uPDm was the day my ds was born. Shewas upset that she was not present at the hospital, and that she was unable to find out what was going on (emergency c section, privacy rules etc). She came rageing into my hospital room (me on morphine drip), and I thought, WTH?? if I had been in better shape I might have demanded that she leave.

With uPDh, despite years of bizarre behavior, the thing that finally pushed me was when he raged about my getting my hair cut short. I starting researching controlling spouse, cane across the book invisible chains, and one of the first examples was exactly that....I felt chills.

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Spygirl

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2019, 07:50:34 PM »
I chocked alot of his bizarre behavior and alcoholism  to his high pressure job, because he blamed it on that.  I also believed alot of the stories about phone calls being listened to by the government, bugs in the hs, and that he was watched because of his job. He does have a security clearance. :stars: until it stopped adding up. None of his prophecies ever came true, and youd think the bad behavior would stop if he was going to get in trouble :blink: it occurred to me that he was scaring me.into silence to protect not his job, but protect his IMAGE.

It was a frog in a heating pot for me. It was really insidious. I feel like a recovering cultist.
It wasnt until i got a shrink after fleeing the hs that i realized i was brainwashed. That started me really Out of the FOG.

Sooo glad i am out.

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SparkStillLit

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2019, 01:02:47 AM »
I'm not really out. It's just starting. I guess the stories have gotten too bizarre? This has caused me to look back and ask myself how many of these stories are false, and pick out some that I *know* are (and wonder how on earth I fell for that BS, I'm hardly a stupid woman!) Now I question sooooo much, and I'm trying to get MYSELF out of this kooky paranoid mindset! Maybe that will be more out, when I stop thinking like that! I don't want to believe all sorts of bizarre things. I don't want that to be my default thought style. I caught myself at it today, and I said to myself, WTF are you thinking! That's not how things are! Then crazily I tried to backtalk myself into it, but no. I wasn't having that weird thinking. (But I WAS having a weird back and forth with myself in my brain!!! I'VE GONE CRAZY BECAUSE OF IT!!!!! IT'S TOO LATE!!!!)

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SparkStillLit

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2019, 01:18:38 AM »
Here, I'll tell you what it was. He never lets me take the car to the dealer for service because he says the dealers break your car worse and then say that has to be fixed. My car needs recall work. This must be done at the dealer. This is the 3rd recall item and he's blown up about this and says he'll never get another Subaru (never mind that this might have been a bad year. I still really like my car). Anyway I also need a tire repair and I started thinking they would make the tire worse and try to get me to buy a tire, or all new ones or something and then....WAIT A MINUTE!!!! Any place that performs that service could do that, I could be suspicious of anything, that's his kind of thinking and I'm NOT going to do that! I'm just going to get the damn tire repaired! It's just a little leak, it's not like I ran over a lag bolt, there's no need to start rummaging up a bunch of heavy weather!!! That's what HE does! Don't be suspicious of everyone and everything!

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Whatthehey

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2019, 01:24:33 AM »
SparkStillLit - I had to chuckle at your post.  :yeahthat:  I so identify!  I find myself giving myself pep talks (never thought I would write that sentence in my life.). Out loud when I'm alone and then there are times when the negative internal self talk starts and I out loud will say STOP!    It may be too late for as well.   :bigwink:

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SparkStillLit

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2019, 02:18:20 AM »
Guess what! Tire fixed for free! I felt all validated and proud of myself for making a decision and not letting my nutty brain conversation get the better of me!
Today I needed a new battery (don't ASK!!!!!) so I made ANOTHER decision!!! Nothing bad happened! Weird stuff happened with my prescription refill (STOP IT, UNIVERSE) but I kept my head and didn't freak out and didn't tell him ANYTHING and managed everything. I didn't feel guilty!  (Maybe a little bit). He won't manage anything anyway, he'll just get tantrum-ish and harp on me and bug me and tell me how I did it all wrong and ask me why I did it like THAT and all that malarkey.
ORRRRRR I can do like today and SKIP all that!

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livedit

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2019, 03:18:01 PM »
Spark StillLit. I fininally got my suby in for recall repairs. It went well. They have stanards to maintain. They are not going to hurt your car dooo it.

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SparkStillLit

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2019, 12:51:02 PM »
Oh I did it. All of it. Tire too. They did the tire for free.
It was so liberating to do things and have a positive outcome, like no charge tire repair, when I'm so used to the negative talk and the not letting anyone handle anything themselves or the overall idea that no one is competent to do their own thing.

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Whatthehey

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2019, 01:29:49 PM »
SparkStillLit,

 :applause: :applause: :applause:

Whatthehey

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Oscen

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2019, 07:38:44 AM »
Agreed, it's a process. I'm pretty wary of the online gurus saying they're completely free of it.

And remember, even "normal" people need to be living their lives like this - monitoring their thoughts to keep them clear & healthy, examining and re-examining their values, learning who they are, be willing to admit mistakes, show forgiveness, etc.

It's like cleaning your house - never-ending. We've just started with a house like one from Hoarders!  ;)

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Whatthehey

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2019, 01:51:47 AM »
Thank you to everyone who replied.  I find it helpful to know that there are others in the same boat cooking the same egg.

I am sitting here tonight reflecting on my draft separation agreement and dreading the trial next week - more like show up in court and agree to the paperwork and that is that.  All done.  Divorced.  When thinking of that, I had a thought/vision float up where I am yelling at him with a baseball bat screaming "Why can't you be normal?"  Of course, it didn't happen and wouldn't change anything.  But that is my feeling.  You say you are normal - but you are not.  NOT.

Sigh.  I am still half in the fog I guess.  He suggested that he will be no contact except for child care.  He even hinted that may be less.  Our son will be 18 in a few weeks and graduating in 18 months.  He even indicated he may leave the state.

On one hand I am shocked.  That he would leave his son like that.  On the other, I would be relieved to be free of him completely. 

Well, I answered my own question.  The fog will be there for quite a while.

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1footouttadefog

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2019, 11:58:29 AM »
F.O.G. fear, obligation and guilt.

Being in the fog for me is when these external factors of fear, obligation and guilt, are externally derived or pressed upon me and are the primary criteria involved in decision making and habit making.

Removing these emotional factors or at least the external, or another person manipulation of me via elements of them make we a for more internally and logically based decision making and habits.

We have a lot of control over what we fear, feel obligated to and are guilty about.  Taking that power back is coming Out of the FOG.


.





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Blodyn

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2020, 05:02:52 PM »
OOTF for me means that I am aware of when Iím being gaslighted, manipulated, being used or scapegoated, and that I can take the appropriate steps to set healthy boundaries without feeling any Fear, Obligation or Guilt.

It means that I no longer accept anything less than healthy individuals into my life, and it means that I am prepared to walk away from relationships that donít work because of power/control dynamics.

Iíve been lucky to have married and loved, and been loved in return, to a man who was my soulmate and best friend.  He knew of my PD FOO and loved me anyway, and without judgement.

Sadly, he died five years ago this Xmas.  But his love lives on through me.

Some people  think Iíve changed because of his death.  I take great pleasure in correcting them, because it was our life together that changed me.  He taught me that it was normal and healthy to stand up for myself by setting boundaries.  And by continuing to set these standards I feel I am showing the world what real love is about.

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Whatthehey

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2020, 01:03:01 PM »
My thoughts and prayers are with this holiday season Blodyn.  Thank you for sharing. :bighug:

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Boat Babe

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Re: What does OOTF Mean to You?
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2020, 01:48:35 PM »
I think there are some significant milestones when coming OOTF. Like realising they won't change, that I have codependency issues, that I am not responsible for other people's inner states, that I am responsible for mine etc etc.
But as said above, this inner work is in fact part of our life's work, especially if we had PDs in our childhood. It does lead to wonderful insights and the capacity to support others still in the FOG. I am a better person for having had to address this shit, so that's a plus!
Happy New Year to everyone.