Pick up artist vs narcissist?

[ohoh]

I've been wondering about this and looked it up on the internet. What are the differences between Pick up artists (PUA) and narcissists (NPD)? I don't get it since there are too many similarities. How to recognize one from another? NPD are made in early childhood unconsciously, but PUA is a chosen behavior in adulthood. Deep down, both are highly insecure, so how to distinct them by looking only outward actions that are pretty much identical in my observation?

Motivations vary in PUA and narcissists, so it can't be a factor of distinction. Also, in case where PUA falls in love, he /she can also demonstrate neurotic behavior when loosing a victim.

I'm asking since it's important to know who are you dealing with. Not to undermine anyone, but I believe many people label their ex as a NPD, while in fact he /she is a "high level" player made by culture.

I also noticed there are growing online and real life communities where PUA teacher (who may actually be a NPD or psychopath) is leading the way to shape young students to become PUA. So the lines are blurred again, IMHO.

I'm just wondering what are your thoughts on this?

[Hazy111]

Theres no such condition called "PUA". Just another label.  Theyre just narcissists. Narcissists demonstrate neurotic behavior when loosing a victim. (loosing supply).

Narcissists can choose to become PUA (as you call them) or not depending on their immediate needs. We live in a narcissistic culture ( the individual is cherished over the collective)  so narcissists are emboldened  to act out. Check out Sam Vaknin  "10 warning signs youre dating a narcissist".

[clara]

PUA is a behavior, but not a personality type.  It's deliberately learned and has very specific goals.  Granted, it might appeal to someone with a particular type of personality, but they're still seeking it out.  NPDs might learn PUA skills and might seek them out as well, but they have many other behaviors that aren't simply PUA tricks.

That said, I think it can be easy to label someone you don't know well as NPD when they're actually just a PUA/narc. 

[Spygirl]

Just my opinion,

Why is there a need for distinction? Is there a hope of "changing this person" into a better human?

I would not engage with either. Back away slowly actually .........

[StayWithMe]

When I think of 2 guys that I dated in the80s, I would agree that they were doing textbook PUA. But did they know that.

These days I know not to put up with it. The subtle put downs, the withholding of validation. As soon as I say, there's no pleasing you, I'm moving on, they would swear that they would change.

Some things I learned from that. Stop:
1. Asking for validation
2. Letting people know what I value so that they can't put it down
3. Thinking that it's my job to please a man / make him behave

Quite frankly, this is what I would do with a narc as well.

[treesgrowslowly]

When I think of 2 guys that I dated in the80s, I would agree that they were doing textbook PUA. But did they know that.

These days I know not to put up with it. The subtle put downs, the withholding of validation. As soon as I say, there's no pleasing you, I'm moving on, they would swear that they would change.

Some things I learned from that. Stop:
1. Asking for validation
2. Letting people know what I value so that they can't put it down
3. Thinking that it's my job to please a man / make him behave

Quite frankly, this is what I would do with a narc as well.

Agreed!

Two things you need to do to be a successful PUA would be to manipulate and deceive. I doubt that one can become a good player / PUA without being good at deceit and manipulation.

NPDs are also good at deceit and manipulation. If you stick around long enough perhaps you can detect someone as PD or NPD but when dating, hopefully the deceit and manipulations are red flags way before you've spent enough time to detect a PD or not.

My bet is that they (two PUAs who date) would attract and discard each other at lightening speed...the ones they can hook for longer are codependents who want to be in a relationship.

Social media is perfect for PUAs. Let's them deceive and manipulate with so much ease and convenience!

[StayWithMe]

I like trying to explain people's behavior as well.  I look at what I know of their situation and how it might have been influenced.

For example, with one of those 80s guys, I was trying to let him down easy.  Thinking that men are a lot like women, I offered friendship when I ended our dating.  These days I understand men and how they don't do friendship.  I was at least being sincere if ill informed.  Anyway, he decided to take a shot at and told me that he could do better, he could find a woman with a real job.  (I was underemployed at the time).

That's when I stopped returning his calls; immediately hung up when I hear his voice (no caller id then); turn my back and walk the other way when I saw him ....... that was when he stepped up the stalking.

It took me years to find some explanation as to why he would say what he did when he still wanted to date me.  The reason I came up is that as he was a teenager in the 70s, a time when divorce laws were in flux, he probably noticed in his poor neighbor that when women left a relationship, they left with barely the clothes on their or even with their kids.  So of course, if a man were to say "I could do better" under these conditions, he probably noticed female family members, female friends, female neighbors would stay put and "act right" and that most likely, this would work with every woman under any conditions.

[Hattie]

Ummm... Just to offer a slightly different perspective...

I do think a lot of the most famous "PUAs" are narcissists. But these days there are also a lot of well meaning dating coaches that teach how to maintain your self respect and safety whilst dating.

After leaving my relationship with my narc ex, I read a LOT of dating advice books. I figured I had no idea what I was doing and needed some help! I found it really helpful in terms of presenting myself as a "high value" person, and inspiring guys to step up to try to win me. Rather than chasing after narcisstic men as I had previously. It gave me a real sense of abundance, and as though I don't need to cling to dysfunctional relationships.

Perhaps slightly off topic but I just wanted to share!

[1footouttadefog]

So a PUA, male or female is am individual who objectified another human being and feels entitled to present a false identity to the target/prey to con them so the PUA can get what they want. 

Seems like someone has to have narcistic motivations and outlook to do this.

[StayWithMe]

When I think of a PUA, I think of someone who is trying to manage your emotions.  One minute positive, the next negative.  to the point where you will be depending on him for your self esteem. 

I remember things like "It's not what you did, but how you did it?"  Plus I found it interesting how the men dated acted like they were committed to the high road.  Any negative remark I might have made about anyone, even a celebrity that he or I will never meet, I am then treated like some undeserving bitch.  But oh boy, point out their negative remarks, and this time it's different.