Toxic Guilt

[Psuedonym]

I know I don't have to point out that this is big one for a lot of us, especially around the holidays. I think is is a big one that I struggle with, as it was pounded into my head when I was a child (only child at that) that it was 'my job' to cheer Negatron up and make her happy. She also, unlike your ignoring type PD, would bombard with how important I was to her. Here's an awesome one to deconstruct: "I would kill mylself if something happened to you!"

Sooo, if something happened to me it would be a) still all about her and b) something I should feel guilty about – I guess from the afterlife, and c) my fault for making her kill herself.

Anywayyyyyy, so I was reading up on the subject and I came across this article: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/toxic-guilt-healthy-guilt_b_583f4a96e4b04587de5de6d0 and this part in particular hit me like a ton of bricks:

Fran WANTS to believe that she is causing others' feelings because it gives her a sense of control over how others feel about her. The ego wounded part of her, the part that wants to control how others feel about her, reasons that, "If I can cause others to be hurt or upset, I can also cause them to be loving and accepting. If I just do things right, then I can control how others feel about me and treat me." This belief in control gives Fran the illusion of safety. She does not want to know that she is not in control over how others feel about her and treat her. She does not want to know that she does not pull the strings on others' feelings and behavior.

While Fran doesn't like the feeling of guilt, she is unconsciously willing to go on feeling guilty in order to maintain her illusion of control. If she comes into truth about her lack of control over how others feel about her and treat her, her toxic guilt will disappear

I don't know why, despite  dwelling on these matters for way too long and people like my T telling me that Negatron never should have had children and didn't really love me, that these two paragraphs really got through to me. That the truth is: Negatron does not love or even like me–the real me that is, at all. She thinks the real me is selfish and awful and immature and ungrateful and overly sensitive and mentally unbalanced and defective. She said to my BF once that I wasn't anything approaching 'normal' until I was about 30. The only 'me' she has any affection for is the made up version whose only purpose is to make herself feel better about herself.

All of this really doesn't make me sad at all. I find it liberating to realize that it really is all about my beliefs. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Wow, my thoughts are that this quite real and is in fact guilt and shame that is misplaced. Someone had it and did not want it and threw it onto someone who was just there. It is not our burden to carry.  It was not our fault then, and it is not our fault now.         
What you said is so true about us not having any control over what others think of us or how they treat us. My mother used to say similar to me about not being able to live any more if something were to happen to me.  I carried the burden of her happiness and in the process gave up my own needs for her approval. It is a terrible thing to lay on a small child. I used to feel a rise of rage within me at the smallest slights, then I realized I was reacting to a lifetime of failed justice on my behalf.     
I think the silver lining is in your last statement. I agree it is so very liberating to get to this point of awareness. I think it happens when you really just let all that stuff go.  I also feel no sadness or resentments. I just feel so incredibly free and light. I have happiness in my life I never knew possible. 

[lotusblume]

Wow Pseudonym,

Thanks for sharing that. It is quite a profound understanding of the one holding the toxic guilt.

I've been feeling that way about my younger sister recently. It's been a lifetime of knowing she was selfish and would throw me under the bus over and over again, mixed with wanting to protect her, and guide her in how to be "better". I find this one of the hardest things to shake. I was parentified and had to take care of my sister, always. My parents often guilted me about our relationship, saying she missed me, wanted to spend more time with me, that she loves me and is protective of me. I always saw past her manipulations while they enabled her and her narcissism.

She was the ring leader in a smear campaign against me and my SO. I had the least difficulty going NC with her than the rest of my FOO initially. I saw past her rage and crocodile tears and pity ploys.

But I opened the doors to her again... And she apologized. She seemed to have actually changed. I think she has just learned better now to manipulate me. But part of me still wants to save her. Wants to tell her the honest truth, what I think of her and what she's done to me, and tell her that I love her in hopes that maybe that love and truth will nudge her to become a better person. I feel responsible for her. I feel guilty about being NC with her, despite all the damage she has done to me. I feel like I can control the outcome, if only I say this or that, she will see the light. I worry, what if she actually has seen the light and it's not just manipulation? Will my "rejection" of her push her more into darkness?

I recognize myself in the paragraph you quoted. I have always had the belief that if you loved someone enough, you could change them. I know now that that is codependency. People will change if they want to change, and they are the only ones who can do it.

I will reread that paragraph and keep it close. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm glad it has helped you too.

[Psuedonym]

Thank you lotusblume and Blueberry Pancakes for your replies! You know reading something profound is one thing, writing about it is something else, but having people say 'I understand this and have been through it' is really therapeutic. I really appreciate them and am at the same time sorry that you're so familiar with the feeling.

I'm just now listening to Pete Walker's C-PTSD book (which is as profound as everybody says). It really does take a long time (at least for me!) to realize that the feelings that you are inherently flawed/broken/wrong/disgusting/ugly/unworthy/etc actually have nothing to do with you and everything to do with how you were parented, whether or not you remember it. I really found it fascinating to learn that most of the damage that's done to you happens before you have conscious memories, and that the feeling of toxic guilt really started before you knew the meaning of the word.

[Psuedonym]

I just heard this other great quote from Pete Walker:

it is crucial for deeper level recovery  that we learn that feelings of shame fear and guilt are sometimes signs that we have done or said the right thing. They are emotional flashbacks to how we were traumatized for trying to claim normal human privileges. 

[Hellsbells]

That article was spot on. I've never looked at it exactly from that angle but it makes a lot of sense. It's definately a legacy of being brought up with personality disordered people that you accept responsibility for their feelings, good and bad. The Pete walker book is excellent, one part I kept going over again and again was the bit about silencing your inner critic. He was advising you to say 'I'm not scared of you anymore, take back your shame and disgust, I am disgusted at your shameful parenting'. (I'm paraphrasing so may be slightly inaccurate). I found that a really powerful statement.

[Psuedonym]

This is brilliant Hellsbells: 'I'm not scared of you anymore, take back your shame and disgust, I am disgusted at your shameful parenting'. Haven't gotten to that part yet. I'm excited to keep reading it. It's great. Thanks for the reply!