Prepping for No Contact

[Fortuna]

My mom put on the last few straws that broke the camels back a couple of days ago. I talk about them over here: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=82119.0 We've decided to get through the holiday visit because the kids already had been told at this time she was coming and we essentially made a promise to them, we have let her think she won this round by backing off. If I have to deal with the rage that goes with enforcing a boundary, it's going to because I want to continue dealing with the relationship. So after her visit we're planning to sever contact.

Now I'm into the weeds of how to do that. I'm expecting when I text or email her the , for lack of a better word, announcement that I will no longer be in contact and that includes the kid's weekly video chats, she will hit the roof. As in most of the Midwest may see the nuclear cloud. So I'm figuring out what I need to do to minimize onslaught of what comes next. So far I've thought of:

• Blocking her number in my cell, my husbands cell and suggest blocking her number on all the cells in my local  in law family so she can't use them as a bridge to get to us. (Although, my Father in law may want to have a 'chat' with her first  )
• Blocking her on the home phone
• Blocking her on the video chat. not sure how to do that but I'm sure there is a way.
• Set up a special I never have to see it if I don't want to email folder
• Block on facebook. I never use it, but I should probably be complete
• I'm assuming the post office doesn't have the resources to block letters or packages from a specific address, so I'll have to be the one to get the mail and have a 'Return to Sender' stamp
• Get one of those video doorbells or a simple security system so we can have an evidence trail in case she does the 'Woe is me I'll just sit on the steps until someone talks to me. (Since when I commented she booked her flight for an extra day she said she's just spend the night at the airport, then switched it to say she'd spend it on my front steps. So the notion is already in her head.)
• She's already on the schools 'Do Not Let this Person Pick Them Up.' list, but I may want to let the school resource officer no of the change in status. Not sure.
• Then the hard part, formulated what exactly I'm telling the kids so they understand  that emotionally this isn't punishment for their grandma, and physically, to never ever go anywhere with her.

Does this look good as far as getting out of the PD infested waters?    I want to make sure, as much as I can, that I'm not blindsided by just forgetting something silly. She lives hundred of miles away and is notoriously cheap so the bulk of any spamming is going to be via long distance.

[p123]

Fortuna - I dream of going NC. Thats a good list there - a lot to think about.

One thing I've always thought my Dad would do. Would she do something extreme like call the police? Fake an emergency? Fake suicide?

All thing my Dad WOULD do I know it.

[Andeza]

I'll look for the fireworks. 

Looks good, I would deliver a copy of your most current picture of her to the school, ask them to put it on the wall of shame, or whatever they call it in their particular office.

If you're using Skype, I remember it does have a block feature. Or did a couple years ago. I'm not sure about others, but those accounts are so cheap it might be easier to set up a new one under a fake name and only give it out to people you trust, with explicit instructions not to give the info to your Foo.

You don't have to return to sender, you can just toss in trash. However, if you prefer to return, the stamp is best because it makes it look semi official, like you moved or something. Don't hand write on the envelope though, that just confirms to her that it passed through your hands and pds can be quite weird about that kind of thing.

Others will know better about telling your kids. I hope starboard song chimes in, he and his wife handled this with their ds admirably.

I'm not NC, yet, but my UbpdM is sticking her toes over the line that says do not cross, and she doesn't even know it. So this list you've got is one I've also got in my own mind. Sucks we even have to go there. Sending you strength and well wishes.

[GettingOOTF]

It looks like a good list. Beware though, a determined PD will find a way.

I have a crazy ex who I've been NC with for a few years and he tests the boundaries every now and again.

My family occasionally try through a public account I have. I initially made it private but it cut me off from things I wanted as part of my life. For the most part my family don't try too hard, and I live in a different country so I'm fortunate in that regard.

Going NC with family is hard. I felt a lot of guilt and hated myself a bit. It has gotten much easier and I have so much more mental energy and clarity now I don't have to deal with all of that drama.

[Psuedonym]

Hey Fortuna,

One thing I would prep for is that things may blow up before or during the holiday. a) Even though they don't care about what you're feeling PDs do have a weird ability to read other people's emotions/thoughts in a sometimes almost psychic way. b) if you've made the decision to go NC, you're at the point where you're done with her bullshit. The combination of these things could result in the nuclear explosion happening sooner rather than later.

The second thing I would prepare for is she may surprise you with her response. She may discover very quickly that rage isn't working and turn on the poor me/victim act instead. In that case I would be prepared for calls from friends/relatives who are 'concerned' for her welfare.

The third thing I would prepare for is your reaction. If you are raised anything like I was, with a ton of guilt and responsibility for her happiness heaped on you, it may feel overwhelming at times. I highly recommend Dr. Les Carter's videos and Pete Walker's C-PTSD book. Having those to refer to has helped me a ton.

I had to go NC last December and know what you're going through. It is really, really hard, but as time passes, I'm learning more and more how necessary it was.

[illogical]

Hi Fortuna,

I read your other thread, in which you discuss how your mother decided to set her own schedule with no regard or respect for you, or your kind invitation to your house for the holidays.

I would call your mother's hand on this RIGHT NOW, and tell her that you are not going to be available for the extra two days she is trying to commandeer for herself.  Then I would make other plans for those two days.  Even stay in a hotel if I had to, leaving your mother no choice but to find other accommodations.   I absolutely would not let her have "one last victory". 

As far as the promise you made to your kids, explain to them that there has been a change of plans because grandma is not respecting you or your invitation to visit.

If your mother flies into a rage or gets waify like she did on your last phone call, I would cancel her visit altogether.  I would tell her "I'm sorry you feel that way.  I think it's best you make other plans for the holidays."

This is a power struggle between you and your mother.  If she tramples your boundaries, you let her feel the consequences.  At this point, there are no consequences for her plowing through your boundary.  So she is going to get the message from you that it's perfectly okay to trample any boundary you set.

If you let her actions slide and host her over the holidays for 5 days, whose to say it will go well?  She could very well ramp it up and rage on, waif on, give you backhanded compliments and snark and a whole other host of things that might make your holiday a living hell.

So I would bring things to a head now.  And if that results in NC, so be it.  You are already prepared for NC after the holidays, so there's not a lot of preparation you have to do.  And it would serve to tell yourself that you are no longer going to put up with your mother's bullsh*t-- not one more minute of it! 

Just my two cents.   

[p123]

Hi Fortuna,

I read your other thread, in which you discuss how your mother decided to set her own schedule with no regard or respect for you, or your kind invitation to your house for the holidays.

I would call your mother's hand on this RIGHT NOW, and tell her that you are not going to be available for the extra two days she is trying to commandeer for herself.  Then I would make other plans for those two days.  Even stay in a hotel if I had to, leaving your mother no choice but to find other accommodations.   I absolutely would not let her have "one last victory". 

As far as the promise you made to your kids, explain to them that there has been a change of plans because grandma is not respecting you or your invitation to visit.

If your mother flies into a rage or gets waify like she did on your last phone call, I would cancel her visit altogether.  I would tell her "I'm sorry you feel that way.  I think it's best you make other plans for the holidays."

This is a power struggle between you and your mother.  If she tramples your boundaries, you let her feel the consequences.  At this point, there are no consequences for her plowing through your boundary.  So she is going to get the message from you that it's perfectly okay to trample any boundary you set.

If you let her actions slide and host her over the holidays for 5 days, whose to say it will go well?  She could very well ramp it up and rage on, waif on, give you backhanded compliments and snark and a whole other host of things that might make your holiday a living hell.

So I would bring things to a head now.  And if that results in NC, so be it.  You are already prepared for NC after the holidays, so there's not a lot of preparation you have to do.  And it would serve to tell yourself that you are no longer going to put up with your mother's bullsh*t-- not one more minute of it! 

Just my two cents.   

Yeh I agree with this. As we say in the UK ,her adding the extra day when she knew damn well what you said is a "p@ss take" lol

Might as well let it come to a head now...

I guess its complicated with the kids though. How old are they? And I guess they get on well with her?
Im saved from that one - the miserable git pretty much ignores them so they don't even care he exists to be honest- his fault.

[gettingstronger1]

Fortuna,

I am sorry you are in this unfortunate situation with your mother.  It is complicated and painful to deal with.  If I am understanding you correctly, you said that you are going through with this visit with your mother because you feel like it has already been promised to your children that their grandmother will come.  I understand how you could feel this way, but I wonder if it would be better to tell your kids that there has been a change of plans and grandmother will not be coming to visit at Christmas.  There are two reasons you may want to cancel this visit immediately.  One reason is for the benefit of your children and the second reason is because of the boundary violation and the importance of enforcing your boundary immediately.   It is highly likely that your mother is going to cause arguments and conflict during her visit with you and your family.  I can't predict her behavior but her past behavior shows she behaves in dysfunctional ways.   You need to ask yourself, do you want your children to be exposed to this dysfunctional behavior and learn the message that it is okay to act this way because grandma does it.  Do you want your children to be exposed to this inevitable conflict with your mom and possibly ruin your children's holiday.  I don't know if your mother's inappropriate behavior is mostly covert or behind closed doors and not in front of your kids, but remember children are perceptive.  They know when there is extreme stress and problems going on around them.   Obviously your kids well being is your first priority, or you wouldn't have worried about their disappointment in not seeing grandma, but maybe the bigger concern is grandmother ruining your children's holiday with her behavior. 

Basically you are perfectly within your right to cancel your mother's visit completely right now.   She has violated your boundaries over the length of the visit AND she has behaved disrespectfully towards you when you tried to talk to her about that. I understand you don't want to disappoint your kids, but not enforcing a boundary, and possibly ruining a holiday and hurting your kids is just not worth it.  I do agree with illogical in that it is probably better to cut your losses now. Obviously this is a very personal choice that only you can make.  I in no way want to tell you what to do especially since I am not there, but protecting your children from possible conflict during the visit may be another angle that you may want to consider.  Please keep us updated on what you decide.  Going NC is never easy but it does get easier with time.  Below is a link to an article about going NC that I recently found.  I found it to be very helpful and insightful and maybe it might be helpful to you or anyone else who is reading this post. Best wishes to you as you make difficult decisions.  We are here to support you in what ever you decide to do, because only you know what is best for you. 

https://womboflight.com/navigating-no-contact-when-estrangement-from-your-mother-is-the-healthiest-choice

[Fortuna]

Fortuna - I dream of going NC. Thats a good list there - a lot to think about.

One thing I've always thought my Dad would do. Would she do something extreme like call the police? Fake an emergency? Fake suicide?

All thing my Dad WOULD do I know it.

I'm not real sure what she might try. I've given up trying to figure where the bottom is in this particular cesspool. I could see her calling the police "Because she's worried about the kids" after she cant get a hold of us or my in laws. Her end goal always seems to be about getting my kids attention. So a call to CPS is also a possibility.  She's never threatened suicide in any way so I don't see that, but I could see a fake emergency, but I'm hundreds of miles away and there's other family much closer so even if she did, they'd end up being the ones she's have to call. I know after I've started this process I'm going to be jumpy just waiting for whatever she is going to do out of revenge.

[Fortuna]

Hey Fortuna,

One thing I would prep for is that things may blow up before or during the holiday. a) Even though they don't care about what you're feeling PDs do have a weird ability to read other people's emotions/thoughts in a sometimes almost psychic way. b) if you've made the decision to go NC, you're at the point where you're done with her bullshit. The combination of these things could result in the nuclear explosion happening sooner rather than later.

The second thing I would prepare for is she may surprise you with her response. She may discover very quickly that rage isn't working and turn on the poor me/victim act instead. In that case I would be prepared for calls from friends/relatives who are 'concerned' for her welfare.

The third thing I would prepare for is your reaction. If you are raised anything like I was, with a ton of guilt and responsibility for her happiness heaped on you, it may feel overwhelming at times. I highly recommend Dr. Les Carter's videos and Pete Walker's C-PTSD book. Having those to refer to has helped me a ton.

I had to go NC last December and know what you're going through. It is really, really hard, but as time passes, I'm learning more and more how necessary it was.

Thanks for the heads up. For the first thing: My husband and I already have a strategy in place if it happens during the holidays. (Keeping a sheet of hotels with vacancies and am wiling to giver her 15 to collect her things and for an Uber to get there, after sending my kids down to the in laws). And for the second thing since none of the relatives ever call me back or have visited (everything triangulated through my mom) I doubt it's going to be hard to dismiss those calls. The most likely FM would be her sister, a nurse. So all i have to say there is "In your professional opinion, when you find people have decided to stop having contact with a family member, do you think it might be for a reason?" I have no plans about talking about to anybody, but if they stick their nose in I will offer them up a question for them to ponder.
As for the third, I know I have serious work to do. Thanks for the suggestions.

[blacksheep7]

Hi Fortuna,

So sorry you are going through this.  I agree with illogical, the time is now.   I see that you are already set up for the holidays, good and ready.

As for what other people think, I had to stop thinking of that and talk about it, only to people who I completed trusted.

Take care  hugs

[Call Me Cordelia]

I agree with others about just ripping off the bandaid now rather than putting yourselves through what’s pretty much bound to be a hellish Christmas. ESPECIALLY if you think she would stoop to calling CPS. If she is at your home for five days, she might dig up all sorts of “evidence” that she could use. Of course it would be fabricated after the fact, but if she was there so recently and so intimately as a houseguest, it adds plausibility to whatever BS she might serve up.

[Fortuna]

I would rip off the bandaid now if the flight wasn't already paid for. It practically means a 100% likelihood of her showing up at my door during the visit I cancelled already in an uproar because I didn't meet her at the airport. And if I don't open it then she probably will go off and the kids will have to deal with a 'grammy gone cray cray' situation.

She's usually better in a crowd. The phone calls she feels are 'private' so she thinks they are only said to me so she can backtrack and say I didn't hear correctly or was too sensitive, or I was only joking or whatever invalidating thing to justify or deny the behavior.  (She sound near in a panic when she realized near the end of the call that it was on speaker phone the entire time) My husband doesn't leave me alone with her and we don't leave her alone with the kids. I'm just trying to get through this with the least drama as possible so I can close the curtain on it. At this point trying to enforce the boundary when we are going NC after this seems like a bit of wasted effort, I'd rather apply that to the NC.

[p123]

I would rip off the bandaid now if the flight wasn't already paid for. It practically means a 100% likelihood of her showing up at my door during the visit I cancelled already in an uproar because I didn't meet her at the airport. And if I don't open it then she probably will go off and the kids will have to deal with a 'grammy gone cray cray' situation.

She's usually better in a crowd. The phone calls she feels are 'private' so she thinks they are only said to me so she can backtrack and say I didn't hear correctly or was too sensitive, or I was only joking or whatever invalidating thing to justify or deny the behavior.  (She sound near in a panic when she realized near the end of the call that it was on speaker phone the entire time) My husband doesn't leave me alone with her and we don't leave her alone with the kids. I'm just trying to get through this with the least drama as possible so I can close the curtain on it. At this point trying to enforce the boundary when we are going NC after this seems like a bit of wasted effort, I'd rather apply that to the NC.

Yeh I agree. If shes paid I can see her turning up either way. My Dad would do this. And of course the kids.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yikes. Could you change the locks and have the kids out of the house at her expected arrival time? If she pulled a stunt like that... Well granny gone cray cray and Fortuna DEFINITELY gone NC.

I'm a little worried about the thinking that it's wasted effort to enforce a boundary when you're going NC anyway. NC is the ultimate boundary. You don't just set it and forget it. She will fight and rage against it like nobody's business. You know your mother and what she's likely to do... that won't stop just because you decided on NC. Quite the opposite. I NEVER anticipated the antics uNF would stoop to when I said I was taking a break. That's common to many of us. If you're not willing to enforce your "lesser" boundaries, like no you don't get to dictate how many days I host you, no matter what shenanigans you pull, how are you going to keep to NC? If you give in at all to an N they think your boundaries aren't serious and they will be emboldened, not appeased. They think, with reason, that their tactics work.

[Fortuna]

I'm a little worried about the thinking that it's wasted effort to enforce a boundary when you're going NC anyway. NC is the ultimate boundary.... If you give in at all to an N they think your boundaries aren't serious and they will be emboldened, not appeased. They think, with reason, that their tactics work.

It's less a question of appeasement and more about getting through the visit where she thinks she doesn't have to pull the shenanigans because she thinks she' s won then deal with NC when there isn't a flight to my house already paid for. I never gave her a key so that's not an issue, thank goodness. Since she lives far away I think I'll find it easier not picking up the phone than have her pounding on the door screaming at me. We can make arrangements to not be around next year, just not this year.

[illogical]

Yikes. Could you change the locks and have the kids out of the house at her expected arrival time? If she pulled a stunt like that... Well granny gone cray cray and Fortuna DEFINITELY gone NC.

I'm a little worried about the thinking that it's wasted effort to enforce a boundary when you're going NC anyway. NC is the ultimate boundary. You don't just set it and forget it. She will fight and rage against it like nobody's business. You know your mother and what she's likely to do... that won't stop just because you decided on NC. Quite the opposite. I NEVER anticipated the antics uNF would stoop to when I said I was taking a break. That's common to many of us. If you're not willing to enforce your "lesser" boundaries, like no you don't get to dictate how many days I host you, no matter what shenanigans you pull, how are you going to keep to NC? If you give in at all to an N they think your boundaries aren't serious and they will be emboldened, not appeased. They think, with reason, that their tactics work.

I totally second what Call Me Cordelia said in the above post.

Having been through NC, I have to say that if your mother is giving you sh*t about enforcing a boundary, she won't go "quietly" after you go NC. 

Yes, you have a physical barrier there and that's going to mitigate NC.  BUT-- there is still The Smear Campaign, The Guilt Card, The FMs, The Gaslighting, The Raging, The Projection, The Chaos Manufacture, the basically pulling out all the stops because she will HAVE NO IDEA why you've gone NC after "such a nice visit".

So despite the physical distance, I think you have to expect there will be repercussions.  The reason I advised you to deal with the situation now, is that it seems like you are procrastinating the inevitable chaos that will likely ensue when you go NC.  I don't think that "appeasing" your mother is going to work.  And I don't think it will go towards alleviating guilt, since she totally won't get what you are doing and is likely to freak totally out when you block her.  Are you thinking that "I'll let mother have this one last victory, then I am justified in pulling the plug?"

Because you are justified in "pulling the plug" on the relationship whenever you decide to.  And any guilt that results will just be unwarranted because of the abuse.  Each of us are on our own journey though, and all we can do is advise you based on what we've experienced.  If you have done the work on yourself to go NC-- because it is a very difficult decision that, IMHO, has to be a measure of last resort-- then go for it.  Bite your tongue during the visit and then pull the plug.

You know your mother better than we do,  I wish you the best. 

[gcj07a]

I love the thought you are putting into this, but I would push back just a little and ask exactly why you feel like you need to keep this "promise" to let her visit for the holiday? If things are so bad you are going NC, then they are (IMO) too bad for her to visit you. You don't have to put up with this and I'm sure you can find a way to explain it to the kids. Basically, if Granny is batshit crazy today, then she will be tomorrow. And ain't nobody got time for that. Oh, and maybe this way you will actually enjoy your holiday!

[Yael924]

I don't know what you decided to do, but I decided to share my experience.

My first post on the welcome mat discussed how by February I was stressed about visiting my uBPD parent for summer.

I ignored my gut for the sake of the kids, family harmony, the FOG, etc.

I had good boundaries. Rental car, hotel, code words for the kids to leave the house in case things got out of control; I thought I had a foolproof plan....

...and my uBPD parent got enraged about the boundaries. She managed her emotions on the topic by trying to kill me.

A passing dogwalker heard me screaming and saved my life.

I've needed a ton of intense therapy to get over the PTSD. Now one of my kids needs help with dealing with the fact that grandma tried to kill mom. And I have to live with that.

I know my situation is extreme, but I share it with you in the hopes that you listen to your gut feelings.

If I had stuck to my guns, my kids could have at least kept some good memories. Now they are cut off from my side of the family. Aunts, cousins, parents, uncles...everyone.

Good luck. I'll be thinking of you...   

[JustKat]

Hi Fortuna,

I love that you're thinking ahead and think the list is great, though you may have some problems with the "Return To Sender" idea. There have been a lot of discussions on this one, and every situation is different, but in my case trying "Return To Sender" backfired. I did that with the first few hoovering letters I got, only to find out that my Nmother showed the returned letters to everyone and used them to play the victim. After that I decided that the best approach was to ignore anything that came in the mail. By ignoring it, she had no way of knowing if she had gotten to me or upset me. Heck, she had no way of knowing if I had even received the letters in the first place. Just be aware that a returned letter can be weaponized. If you do decide to return them, definitely use a rubber stamp rather than your own handwriting. It makes it harder to blame you if your handwriting isn't on it.

And I just thought I'd add that when I went NC it was right before Christmas and was brought on by holiday-related events. I had just moved into a new house that was very small and had asked N-mother if she would skip the gifts that year and give us a Home Depot gift card so we could make some needed repairs on the house. She lived for her annual Hallmark Christmas, with presents stacked to the ceiling, always stupid stuff like toys and gag gifts for her adult children, but I didn't want any more "stuff" as I didn't have any place to store it. She flew into a rage and started fighting with me over the phone, eventually going infantile and screaming for my father to come and protect her from my abuse. I hung up. The next day I got a box of gifts sent to me by overnight mail with a screed detailing what a monster I was and what a wonderful mother she had been.

That was my final straw moment and I went NC a week before Christmas, sparing myself the discomfort of one more family get-together. NO regrets whatsoever. I realize it's harder to do when there are children involved, but I think illogical makes a good point about just doing it now.

Whatever you decide, I want to wish you all the best and hope you have a peaceful holiday season.