I've had enough - I could just cry

[p123]

I dream of moving to another country and never having to deal with him again.

Its like a game and it doesn't stop. Hes pushing all the time. Hes roped in my stupid brother who's acting as his Flying monkey. Its incessant.
I'm constantly wound up by it (I try not to but I can't help it!). Im in such a bad mood my kids and wife are suffering too.

I've pushed and hes pushed back with a vengeance. I don't want this sort of relationship with my Dad anymore but he wont take it.
Its draining the life out of me and making me ill.

Hes escalating things. I can see whats going to happen before it happens. He seems as if he'll do ANYTHING to get his way. I just want to get away from him. He expects 100% of my time to spent on him.

He expects me to invite him Xmas day to our house. No change - it will ruins xmas. Wife will explode too. Btother has already made an excuse - Im on holiday. probably a lie. Its all going to kick off.

Awful to say but if he passed away tomorrow I'm not even sure I'd be sad. My nice Dad disappeared 10 years ago when he became like this.

[blacksheep7]

Oh gosh, I read your background story.
I'm sorry that you and your family are going through this horrible pain and frustration.  I don't know if you would feel any guilt by not inviting him for x-mas as WI said as it would not be a good idea at this point, to not take that chance that he might not leave.  It takes a first time, the hardest to break the ice.
As for the guilt, you probably do feel some as we all did,  groomed in the fog.  I know I did when I went nc with widowed NM but she has 3 other kids who took over to care for her and she even has as a surrogate daughter (an enmeshed relationship, of course).  I would get up every day thinking of her being alone instead of my pain....how sick is that?   It finally subsided with time, thank goodness!

Cry if you have to, it releases the tension.

[p123]

Oh gosh, I read your background story.
I'm sorry that you and your family are going through this horrible pain and frustration.  I don't know if you would feel any guilt by not inviting him for x-mas as WI said as it would not be a good idea at this point, to not take that chance that he might not leave.  It takes a first time, the hardest to break the ice.
As for the guilt, you probably do feel some as we all did,  groomed in the fog.  I know I did when I went nc with widowed NM but she has 3 other kids who took over to care for her and she even has as a surrogate daughter (an enmeshed relationship, of course).  I would get up every day thinking of her being alone instead of my pain....how sick is that?   It finally subsided with time, thank goodness!

Cry if you have to, it releases the tension.

Blackie - at the moment, the guilt I feel (on scale of 1-100 from when I started) ,with 100 being a few years. I'm at 2 or 3 out of a 100 now. I've realised that there is no helping him, he really is the biggest a-hole I've ever met. My conscience is clear - if he drops dead tomorrow it wont be my fault.

What I do struggle with still is not guilt but I'm too cowardly to escalate and deal with all the fallout that it will involve. i.e. WW3.

[blacksheep7]

Good as far as the guilt goes.  Cowardly, Please don't put yourself down like that.  It's our fear from way back when....being scolded even when it wasn't our fault.  I was afraid of my Mother at some point also, not anymore if I ever run in  to her on the street as we live in the same neighbourhood. 

And I understand as my girlfriend told me "you will have a sense of relief when your M goes". 

I guess you'll know when you'll be good and ready for that next step, escalation, when you've really had enough. That's my take on it.

We are with you!

[Thru the Rain]

I've read along with your posts over time.

You've really come a long way with this situation. The recent weekend where you didn't give in and visit was a huge victory.

You CAN do this. You CAN just not invite him for Christmas. And we all know that will be very hard on you - your Dad will make sure of it.

As far as WWIII, think about what he might do or say, and then plan for your responses/lack of responses. Keep in mind that you don't owe him (or anyone) an excuse.

Also keep in mind that the truth is an option, as in "I'm sorry Dad, you've made yourself so unpleasant that we will not be including you at Christmas". And in full disclosure, I also struggle with giving the truth as a reason, and generally I don't. But just thinking of saying that to him might make a simple "no" feel easier.

And there's also a "sneaky" way out. Go away over Christmas. Some hotels and restaurants will do a wonderful Christmas dinner, and no work or mess at home. (And now is the time to start looking and make a reservation. I already have my Christmas lunch reservations at a local restaurant.)

So then the line to Dad is "Sorry, we aren't spending Christmas at home this year."

[athene1399]

I am so sorry, p123. The holidays are stressful enough without adding a dysfunctional parent to the mix.

Don't let your brother bother you. If it was that important that dad spend Christmas with family, then your brother wouldn't be out of town IMO. With a lot of what you say, it sounds like your bro says "p123 should be doing this for dad", but he never helps out himself (aside from coming up with the idea and trying to guilt you). I'm glad you don't feel as guilty anymore. Our society says we need to respect our elders, and there's a lot of pressure in always including family in things. There's not a lot of light shed on what to do in dysfunctional, abusive, one-sided relationships. Society will make you feel that you have to invite dad to Christmas, but you don't. There is no reason to keep toxic people in your life if you don't want them there, regardless of who they are. You have a right to boundaries.

I like Thru the Rains idea. "Sorry, Dad. We are also on holiday."  Or could you pop in to visit him on Christmas on your way to somewhere or your way home from somewhere? I don't know if this would work. Just an alternative idea I'm throwing out there.

[PeanutButter]

I love what womaninterrupted always says: that at this stage in our lives all our elderly pdParents have are words to try to control us. They really have no power at all except for what we give them.
I agree with thrutherain about wwIII. Ask yourself what is the absolute worse he will do. Is that worst so terribly scary that you are willing sacrifice yourself and therefore your family in order to avoid it?

[p123]

I've read along with your posts over time.

You've really come a long way with this situation. The recent weekend where you didn't give in and visit was a huge victory.

You CAN do this. You CAN just not invite him for Christmas. And we all know that will be very hard on you - your Dad will make sure of it.

As far as WWIII, think about what he might do or say, and then plan for your responses/lack of responses. Keep in mind that you don't owe him (or anyone) an excuse.

Also keep in mind that the truth is an option, as in "I'm sorry Dad, you've made yourself so unpleasant that we will not be including you at Christmas". And in full disclosure, I also struggle with giving the truth as a reason, and generally I don't. But just thinking of saying that to him might make a simple "no" feel easier.

And there's also a "sneaky" way out. Go away over Christmas. Some hotels and restaurants will do a wonderful Christmas dinner, and no work or mess at home. (And now is the time to start looking and make a reservation. I already have my Christmas lunch reservations at a local restaurant.)

So then the line to Dad is "Sorry, we aren't spending Christmas at home this year."

I just CANT do that. i.e. tell him hes been unpleasant so hes not coming. He has been but I just can't.

It will kick off though, brother has already tried to say hes booked a holiday xmas day. Hes done this a few times - waits for me to offer to have Dad then the holiday never transpires. There is NO WAY hes coming Xmas Day though - my wife would divorce me - honestly.

I do have a ready made excuse.  Did it last year. My wife is a nurse. She works over xmas a lot. Shes not working xmas day but it xmas eve and boxing day. (Another reason why hes not ruining her only day).

So what I say is we're not doing xmas dinner since she's not there and we're just popping down her brothers (lives 5 mins away) for dinner then coming home. LAst year he moaned and said "yes but you can still pick me up". 30 mins drive each way - I said NO its not fair to drag my 6 year old out on xmas day. He couldnt see why I couldnt do that. Very selfish is Dad.

[PeanutButter]

I just CANT do that. i.e. tell him hes been unpleasant so hes not coming. He has been but I just can't.
There is NO WAY hes coming Xmas Day though - my wife would divorce me - honestly.
Very selfish is Dad.

I am sorry that you will not disconnect from this toxic enmeshment with your dad and brother.
YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN MAKE THIS END!
Proof of that IMO is that when your wife was pushed past her limit and considered divorce, you DID put a stop to the xmas visits. YOU are in control of this. You can stop it ALL at anytime!
IME your family is paying a heavy price.

[p123]

I just CANT do that. i.e. tell him hes been unpleasant so hes not coming. He has been but I just can't.
There is NO WAY hes coming Xmas Day though - my wife would divorce me - honestly.
Very selfish is Dad.

I am sorry that you will not disconnect from this toxic enmeshment with your dad and brother.
YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN MAKE THIS END!
Proof of that IMO is that when your wife was pushed past her limit and considered divorce, you DID put a stop to the xmas visits. YOU are in control of this. You can stop it ALL at anytime!
IME your family is paying a heavy price.

Yeh I know. It just makes me so sad I've got to be like this.

[1footouttadefog]

They say we choose that which has the biggest reward/payoff.  What payoff are you choosing. (Rhetorical questions here).

What benefit does backing down to your father offer that is larger than your family. 

Looking deep to find such answers may prove helpful.  Wisdom and self knowledge and understanding can be a great treasure.

[p123]

They say we choose that which has the biggest reward/payoff.  What payoff are you choosing. (Rhetorical questions here).

What benefit does backing down to your father offer that is larger than your family. 

Looking deep to find such answers may prove helpful.  Wisdom and self knowledge and understanding can be a great treasure.

This is true. Yes I have no choice - its got be my family who come first. I need to get my head around that I'm not putting them first and ignoring him - Im just not doing what he wants.

The hard bit is pushing past all the grief he gives me.

[qcdlvl]

p123, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Your dad's demands aren't simply about ignoring what's inconvenient/unreasonable for you and your FOC - that inconvenience is the whole point I think. It's a power play - it's not really about being alone on Christmas or about not liking taxis or home delivery or about placing bets - it's about showing he controls you, he can dictate to you. What better way of showing you have power over someone than making them do something they don't want to do, on their dime and in the most inconvenient manner possible? It's not about ignoring the inconvenience to you, the inconvenience is the whole point. My feeling is you were alone and lonely on Christmas, he'd keep you at arms length. Same reasons, I think, why he doesn't want to spend his own money, even though he's not spending it on anything else - because it wouldn't show power over others, but inconveniencing them and getting them to spend their own money does.
Here comes the worst part: I think part of that power play is that he wants to wreck your marriage and/or the relationship with your kids. He's plainly told you he thinks he comes first. Destroying your FOC would be the ultimate way of showing he does indeed come first, when push comes to shove. Intruding on quality time with your kids or angering your wife aren't side-effects he thoughtlessly would inflict, I think they're his actual goals, the actual point of demanding to be taken to place bets, etc. Getting a taxi, etc would take less time and effort than nagging you, getting your FM brother to help him, etc - if it were truly about the ostensible reason, he'd just get a taxi, sign up for home delivery, etc. But the real reason isn't that.
The good news is that he has no leverage. He has no power over you other than that which you choose to give him.

[p123]

p123, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Your dad's demands aren't simply about ignoring what's inconvenient/unreasonable for you and your FOC - that inconvenience is the whole point I think. It's a power play - it's not really about being alone on Christmas or about not liking taxis or home delivery or about placing bets - it's about showing he controls you, he can dictate to you. What better way of showing you have power over someone than making them do something they don't want to do, on their dime and in the most inconvenient manner possible? It's not about ignoring the inconvenience to you, the inconvenience is the whole point. My feeling is you were alone and lonely on Christmas, he'd keep you at arms length. Same reasons, I think, why he doesn't want to spend his own money, even though he's not spending it on anything else - because it wouldn't show power over others, but inconveniencing them and getting them to spend their own money does.
Here comes the worst part: I think part of that power play is that he wants to wreck your marriage and/or the relationship with your kids. He's plainly told you he thinks he comes first. Destroying your FOC would be the ultimate way of showing he does indeed come first, when push comes to shove. Intruding on quality time with your kids or angering your wife aren't side-effects he thoughtlessly would inflict, I think they're his actual goals, the actual point of demanding to be taken to place bets, etc. Getting a taxi, etc would take less time and effort than nagging you, getting your FM brother to help him, etc - if it were truly about the ostensible reason, he'd just get a taxi, sign up for home delivery, etc. But the real reason isn't that.
The good news is that he has no leverage. He has no power over you other than that which you choose to give him.

Yes for years I didnt understand why he didn't just take the easy option. Like you said sometimes he does things that gain him nothing and he doesnt really want to do - but he likes the power.

Yeh too. Me being split up from my wife would be the ideal thing for him. You may have seen my post about my brothers kid? Where Social services wanted him to take custody temporarily (long story) of his daughter. Dad was all over that telling him not to do it, he was too busy with work etc. - reason being a kid would be a barrier to him getting full attention of course.

No he has no leverage any more..... Its still a game with him though