Living under the shadow of their suffering

[Duck]

I may not make 100% sense tonight but I feel I should reach out because I haven't felt this badly in a while. I read you should reach out when you are in true despair, and I find that it does help. So thanks for just existing out in the world as a forum.

I have been trying to maintain a semblance of a relationship with my enM. Recently, we went somewhere for a week alone to spend time together and try to get to know each other again.

I have been trying to balance having some contact with her while controlling the exposure I have to my pdF.

This weekend, I knew I would probably "have" to talk to my dad for Veterans Day. He is a Vietnam vet. On Sunday, he called and left a message even though it wasn't Monday yet. Then also on Sunday, my mom sent these super long texts about how I should call bc Vietnam and all his suffering and they were watching a program that brought up memories for him and he showed emotion. I find it very difficult to say no to patriotic calls because it seems more taboo than having no contact at Christmas. If you don't pay respect to veterans, you are the worst person imaginable.

I feel frustrated because I feel like the entirety of my life and everything in it, every sorrow, even my death, can never be as important as his war service. He is always throwing it in my face. Even during this call, he said things I believe were designed to make me feel like nothing compared to him, like any suffering, at his hands or another's, is nothing compared to his experiences. While I admit I do not have war experience and I know it is scarring and awful, I feel it is used as excuse for anything bad he has done, and I do not want to feel that I am nothing.

Also, I thought I was getting somewhere in terms of an understanding with my mom that my relationship with her is separate and that she will let me decide on my own how I will interact with him. She has always prioritized him over me and my sibling. She has never seemed to absorb that her relationship as an adult who chose him is drastically different than mine as someone who woke up on this planet with him as my dad without choosing him and experiencing his abuse as a growing child.

Someone in another forum was telling me that going no contact is not necessarily the best thing in a majority of cases. The thing is, I have been reading on this forum, and I'm not even sure it is possible to go no contact. Flying monkeys still bother you. They still call you. I block my dad's calls and one day, I realized my mailbox is full. It is because the blocked voice messages still existed as undeleted and I had to touch them and see how many of them there were to delete them. I couldn't just block them and never know about them.

I also feel sad because he is so manipulative, I am sitting here tonight feeling like no one really has my back. Even my husband can be persuaded by him temporarily. For example, I've seen him melting while listening to a manipulative poor me message before I snapped him out of it by pointing out the manipulation. He usually has my back, but I am sad tonight thinking of the times he has wavered. I either have naive friends who believe in the goodness of all parents or people my dad has manipulated or religious people who think parents must be honored forever.

[Spring Butterfly]

It's sad that your weekend of reconnecting did not turn out the way you anticipated. It's so difficult with the enabling parent and know they truly cannot separate themselves. It is a toxic dance they choose forever in most cases.

With both of them it may be good to take a timeout for healing. The reason deciding contact is so difficult and no contact doesn't work for everyone is because it depends on what you do with that time. Going no contact it does not ensure that you were going to do the necessary healing work from within. Having contact does do damage each and every time there is a contact encounter requiring enough time to do some healing and recovery.

This post might provide some insight
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=29251.msg568720#msg568720

It might be good to take some time to focus on your own healing and a good amount of self-care. The working on you toolbox topic provide some good tips. The book referenced above clearly outlines the steps needed to heal.

[Duck]

Thank you.

[illogical]

HI duck,

It is admirable that your dad served his country.  That said, I think you have to separate that from your relationship with him.  Not get caught up in the "he's a war hero and to be exalted" mindset.  Sure, he is to be admired.  But try to separate that from the abuse he has levied on you.  The two are not compatible.

It may not be possible to have a relationship with your mother separate from your dad.  They are both enmeshed.  They are dancing together in the "Dysfunctional Dance".  Your mother is, from what you posted, always going to side with your dad to your detriment.

Just because your dad is a war veteran, it doesn't vault him over you in terms of worth.  You are worthy, also.  Btw, I am a veteran.  I am also a victim of abuse. 

It's hard to break away from the brainwashing/grooming that was imprinted on you as a child.  But you are not a child anymore.  You are an adult, with feelings and value and integrity.  You are not NOTHING.  You are a person that has merit outside of your parent's evaluation.

[wisingup]

But try to separate that from the abuse he has levied on you.  The two are not compatible.

 

People don't get a free pass to be cruel to others, no matter what they've been through.  I think abusers will find anything in their past to justify their behavior - your dad just happens to have a story that sounds particularly powerful.  If he wasn't a veteran, he'd find another excuse.  Keeping good thoughts for you!

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Duck, please know you are a valuable and worthy individual in your own right and that does not depend on your parents to validate nor do you need to meet certain criteria others set before you. Comparisons seem to illicit behavior where someone else jumps to prove their value, and that can  be a never ending cycle.  I truly believe just being connected to and aware of the goodness that resides within you is enough.  Let that be your unshakable truth.     
Trying to get the understanding of others is very difficult if they have not grown up in a dysfunctional family. Some of those with NPD can come across extremely gracious and friendly. You do not need the agreement of others to maintain what you know are healthy boundaries. I believe you owe it first to yourself to do what makes you emotionally and physically healthy.

[DreamingofQuiet]

I can really relate to your post, though neither of my parents were in military service during wartime (my mother wasn't in the military at all). But the title of your post says it all for me.

I have an unBPD mother and an OCPD enFather. He is singularly devoted to my mother. He did take care of my brother and I while growing up. He was an excellent provider and was always there to help with Dad type stuff, for which I'm very grateful. But he's emotionally pretty shut down, and I realized after a while in therapy that my mother's needs always come first with him.

The shadow of suffering I grew up under was my mother's. I've been hearing about her difficult childhood as long as I've had ears to hear. The message growing up was that she had suffered, no one else has suffered as much as her, and she had carte blanche to behave however she saw fit because of this.  My father seemed to agree. He never spoke up on our behalf when she would go on her tirades. Needless to say, I have some resentment for their behavior and choices. I worked thru a lot of it actually, and was doing better with them until my mother started going off thnodeep end again and lashing out.

The other thing I really relate to about your story is your mother heavy-handedly jumping in and telling you what you should do. I can't tell you how many times I've known I was going to do something difficult, like call one of my PD Parents, was feeling good about it, and then, seemingly out of the blue, I get a long, shaming message about how I should do xyz because...etc., etc. This then seems to contaminate my desire and will to take the difficult action. It's like they just can't step aside and let us make our own choices. That would be allowing us autonomy, which they can't seem to tolerate.

I'm so sorry about this episode with your parents. I feel infuriated on your behalf, because it is infuriating and it touches on some of my own issues. I am glad you are reaching out here. You are definitely someone. Your father's trauma does not take precedence over yours nor does it excuse any abusive behavior on his part. And while our parents' feelings are important and they have a right to them, they are NOT more important than ours. Your father is lucky he has a spouse watching his back (that's no accident). I'm not sure what kind of support you have in your life, but the posters here have YOUR back. I hope that it helps.

DoQ

[Sunny_day]

Duck, I'm sorry you're going through this.
You have a right not want to speak with dad. Full stop. Without having to JADE, convince others, explain. This is regardless of whether he is a veteran, religious person, pillar of the society etc. I agree with others - I found it really difficult to maintain any relationship with enM in separation to NF, but it took a long time for me to see that. I'll have your back on this one!

I completely get the 'taboo' thing, and perhaps a lot of us were faced with some version of it at some point of recovery - feeling like the worst person in the world for breaking cultural expectations. Just because you don't speak with your dad does not mean you're not paying respects to veterans; you may do it in a way that honors your needs and wishes. You have a right to look after yourself.

[blacksheep7]

Quote: People don't get a free pass to be cruel to others, no matter what they've been through.

Exactly.  Bottom line, it is a choice.  My NM told me that my NF had a very strict father/upbringing, abused is what she meant.  That was the only comment I was given when I spoke about the violence/abuse of our upbringing before going nc. That was part of my last conversation with her.

Nc is not an option in some cases.  It is to protect ourselves, especially our mental health which was my reason after decades of emotional abuse with NM.  When she pulled  a narc tantrum on me on New Years eve like NF used to do in my teens, c-ptsd kicked in.  I didn't know what it was then but my anxiety came back full force. 

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't.  For me nc was so freeing to live my life without all the negatives, drama and especially being told that I was the problem in the FOO.

take care

[Duck]

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I have read your responses many times in the last days to let them sink in. You really get my situation.

I think it is true that if my dad did not have Vietnam, he would use another excuse. That is insightful.

The true test is knowing that we all had bad childhoods and yet we spend all our time and effort trying to do what is right and do no harm. That is proof that a bad childhood does not necessarily result in an abusive person.

A phone call with my mom stands out in memory. She was basically comparing my childhood to dad's to prove why his was more pitiable. I'm not even sure if she knows all the time what she is saying, but it seemed to me she was putting a burden on me.

My mom is definitely the harder person to wrap my mind around. She was the "loving" one, the "safe" one growing up, so it is confusing to view her in a less flattering light. Thank you guys for knowing how hard it is to deal with the enabler.