so lonely

[Unknown]

I do not mind being alone, and my personality type is (almost) anti-social. I am not sure if this is the way I was born, or due to my abusive upbringing. It's probably both, I suppose. I fall on the far end of not really "needing" frequent social interaction. However, with that said, I am human, and do have needs like anyone else. I have a really hard time making friends, and really want a healthy, good friendship, but I'm in my 40's, and since being outgoing does not come naturally to me, I have an ambivalent feeling towards this topic. In the past year, I joined a gym, with my husband and nada. (I met 2 women at my new job this year, whom I thought were nice, and had hopes to blossom into a casual acquaintanceship (at the most)  until I soon realized were unhealthy and wisely decided it's best to keep a safe distance.) I soon realized after that, the whole workplace is toxic.  I am also a  busy, working mom and wife, and don't have a lot of time left over for "cultivating" a friendship. OTOH, I haven't met anyone that I've felt had potential either, in a long, long, long time . I don't really have hobbies that involve other people either, which is part of the problem. I like to jog, read, study,/learn,  watch documentaries, garden, I appreciate the arts and theater, and museums (which hasn't happened in ages,  but I do enjoy those types of activities hypothetically anyway) All of these activities are solitary ones, but that is how my "tank" gets filled up. That's how I recharge. I'm just wired that way. Problem is, two introverts probably never find each other because they both prefer being alone. Ironic, but true. So, although I realize I have a responsibility to this end, it's not like the universe is sending healthy people my way, either, which is what I believe, if you're healthy. I think I'm healthy. Healthier anyway. While I recognize I crave healthy people in my life, right now I am between a rock and a hard place, with no one besides my FOC. Being NC with my FOO has taken a huge toll on me, I am sad/grieving feeling like an orphan. I feel like changing my name from Unknown to Orphan Annie. I really struggle with trusting people. I am on high alert for any PD, any narc, and have become even more reclusive than I normally am. I also am really, really struggling at my work place in terms of it being highly toxic, and highly dysfunctional from the top down, and really do not have anyone to trust, in even the smallest, infinitesimal interaction. (This is based on tangible evidence of senior leadership, who I directly work with,  who are constantly back stabbing people left and right to get ahead.) The saddest part is, I left my last work place due to horrific, toxic conditions/behaviors, (same company just different physical location) which has caused much C-ptsd. I feel like I went from the fire into the frying pan, and didn't know it until it was too late....  Believe me, I tried to start fresh at a different company, and there were no offers except this one. I  am still shocked and awed at the unprofessional, uncaring , manipulative ways people of high rank behave. I wonder, if I leave, will it be much of the same elsewhere? Is this the norm in business?  It was a new role for me, and it has been extremely uphill and have been extremely disillusioned in this job this year. It's not like I can go "back" to what I was doing before. I don't want to, but I don't want this either. It has been immensely traumatic to me. (I often wonder if I have a bulls eye on my back, forever the scapegoat, because that is how I feel . ) I am feeling totally and completely lost in my career, which brings on more loneliness because I have nobody to talk to about it. This job alone, has been very traumatic to me, and very triggering, bringing up much of what I've experienced with my FOO, in many ways. (Last September , I did see a counselor  about all of these things, and saw her through April, but she really didn't "get it". She didn't help as far as career direction, and didn't seem to 'get" the FOO issues. I decided to end therapy based on not feeling she was even helping me. ) . I have found that there are not many therapists who truly get narcissistic family dynamics, C-PTSD and grief and loss. Anyway, between the NC with my FOO, and my toxic, unhealthy work environment, I feel so alone. I have only been in this role for a year, and it has been an agonizing, long, long year. I long to find a place where people actually care about the mission, in word, and deed, not just on paper. I long to have genuine camaraderie doing meaningful work, with others who share in that commitment and vision.  I long to work with people who genuinely want you to succeed, instead of wanting you to fail. I long to find a true mentor in my field, who I can look up to, and learn from and who inspires me with their work ethic,  success but especially, their CHARACTER.  I have not found that yet I long for that ideal. I realize this may be better posted in workplace section, or friendships, but I am NC with my FOO, and I really believe life's struggles seem to come back around to that common denominator. It just causes so much pain, and loneliness .  I'm sorry this is so long, I hate that I blather on and on...thank you for reading.

[NumbLotus]

I'm sorry. I really hear you.

I'm an introvert too, and also going crazy with this total isolation. I'm an introvert, not a rock.

I have found that people who seem well adjusted aren't looking for friends - they have their already fulfilling lives and are busy with their families and work. Maybe it's not 100% like that, but I am having that experience.

I also have lower tolerance for toxicity, even relatively mild versions of it. So whereas I used to be able to shrug off "Betty" who won't take no for an answer, and it didn't ruin my day either way, now I feel like I can't tolerate it. So the pool shrinks. And in groups - knitting circles, church groups, fitness groups - there's always somebody. Always.

I also relate to the yearning to do something positive and meaningful. So much energy on petty stuff, nasty stuff, one upmanship, things that don't matter and don't help. Shallow stuff.

I know people like us are out there but they are sure hard to find. Nobody can find me, that's for sure.

Sorry I don't have any ideas, but I hope it's a little good to not feel like you're the only one. There are people out there who do care about important things.

[Foggydew]

That is so familiar. I think there are probably lots of us with the same kind of problem ...I don't know any answers, either. At the moment I am making do with pleasant but superficial friendships (the kind where you don't even arrange to go for a coffee or drink together) and if I have enough, then I feel ok.

[Sidney37]

 

Yes!  I hear you!  This is exactly what I've been trying to talk to my therapist about and she says nothing,  other than to say that's just how it is with adult women.      I'm actually an extrovert and it's killing me.  I'm sustaining myself with interaction from a medical professional I see for an unrelated issue and the friendly college aged cashiers at the grocery store and a lunch place.  I'm lonely!

You said what I am feeling.  I'm not a rock.  I can't live in social isolation especially now that I am NC. 

Moms in my community (those seemingly well adjusted ones with full lives) actually say out loud to new people that they don't need new friends so don't bother trying to talk to them or try to become friends.  As a result I've managed to make friends with a PD and another mom with severe depression who is barely functional who latched onto me.  I just want friends - lunch, coffee, a walk, etc.  Am I expecting too much?

I hope someone pops on here to give some advice.  There must be a way for us.  I've tried the usual suggestions - church, the gym, an art class, volunteering, the PTA. 

[Unknown]

NumbLotus, - yes, I think sometimes even I give off that vibe that I "don't have time" for new friendships. In a way, it is true, friendships take work and time, and I don't have a lot of that, but it is disheartening in my community especially where the PTA moms are really cliquish and non-inclusive. I have tried joining the PTA when my kids started school here and you have to have so many ''boxes'' checked off to ''fit in'', and I realized I had none. LOL. But I am interested in having a casual friendship, a walk, a talk, meet for coffee or lunch here and there , with someone who is real, who is kind, and who is fun to be with, and lastly, who is NORMAL, (meaning, healthy) , albeit on a sporadic basis. (My PD radar turns on when I hear of enmeshment of girlfriends and "how they don't go a day without seeing each other or at least talking!!!". I couldn't handle that intensity, no way Jose.

Foggy Dew, - I concur. I am just looking to take the edge off the loneliness, not anything more.  I am pretty quiet, because I am observant. But once someone gets to know me, and I trust that person, I can be lively and pretty cool. 

Sidney37- Thanks for validating what I put out there. Yes, I am quiet, but I am not dead. I make friendly banter in line, (sometimes!)
I am friendly, but reserved. Maybe I am sending signals that I can't be bothered? Sometimes, it's intentional, (like to PDs) but most of the time, I just want to feel noticed, and spoken to. I want to feel like I matter to someone else. I really try to treat people the way I'd like to be treated. That's friendship 101. That's what friends are for, right? Anyway, thanks for responding, all of you. It helps me not feel so alone. When I hear of some mom's say they went over to their sister's house, or the cousins are coming over so they can't have a playdate, I feel sad inside. I wish I had a good relationship with my sisters. I wish it didn't come to NC. I wish the cousins weren't so dysfunctional and my kids had a relationship with cousins and extended family. It makes my heart ache and I feel a bit...jealous. But, OTOH, appearances are just that. Nobody knows what's really going on in a family unless you can pull that curtain back... So, I stop those wistful thoughts, and carry on.

[NumbLotus]

Reading this makes me more aware that I, too, am giving the same signals.

Not because I am trying to push people away but because I just am overwhelmed.

So for example, my daughter has a school friend whose mother seems normal and interesting. And she has been kind. But at school events I have felt so shy.

And when daughter's friends get dropped off at our house, I am so ashamed of my house and yard, and also often don't feel good (there is so much conflict) that I just want to hide. So instead of a wonderful warm welcome from me, "come on in and have some coffee!," they get awkwardness and shyness and soon they just drop the kid off without getting out of the car which is a relief.

I can't drive so I can't meet anyone anywhere, or do favors for other families (like rides to places), and I am ashamed and awkward that other moms have to do all the driving. It makes it worse since I can't really explain why my husband can't pitch in either.

So really, yes, my vibe must be GO AWAY. I am ashamed and not feeling good and incredibly shy and often stressed. It's hard to have a laugh when inside I'm going round and round in my head about the latest blowup, trying to figure out if it was really so wrong that I sighed or asked for a favor or whatever. I can barely smile, most of the time, and I wonder hiw forced it looks.

I also am remembering with some regret many years ago the wife of a narc I knew. We were sort of friends, not close. She was very shy and didn't speak much. I thought she didn't really like to socialize. And maybe that's true, I don't know. But I'm questioning hiw much of that was her natural personality versus being beaten down by her narc H. I know I couldn't really help her but if I went back in time I know I could have been more supportive. I just didn't know.

[Sidney37]

Are we trying to join the same PTA?  I don't wear the right shoes, carry the right purse, wear the right clothes or belong to the right social organizations/clubs.  I had no idea it would be so hard to volunteer at elementary school. 

I have kids with low levels of special needs - smart, quirky, ADHD and anxious.  Add to it dealing with a PD daily.  I'm sure I gave off anxious/frazzled vibes.  Now that the kids found their people and settled in, I think people remember the vibes I used to give off and aren't willing to give me a second chance. 

[Unknown]

Sidney37, perhaps we are! haha. Our PTA is so snobby, have to drive the Lexus, and the prada shoes, the gucci bag, or whatever is in style  at $600 a pop nowadays to "fit in". have to have the huge house, to boot. I gave up trying to volunteer at the elementary school.
You have to even bring the right "snacks." "gluten free, nut free, dairy free, GMO free, organic, sugar free, no ble dye,, yellow or red dye #5. " Finally, I'm like, can I just bring water? Is water good? ("No, because the bottles are not BPA free and have plastic contaminates".) haha

(I'm exaggerating to make my point.)  The irony is that one of my kids has an anaphalactic allergy to nuts, so if there is ever a mom who should be respectful of these types of issues, it's me. But, boy it gets way out of hand.

I've never cared about that kind of stuff. Have always gone my own way, never with the crowd. Good and bad about that,  but I'd rather be me.
(I just buy my purse at the local store! $30 max! I have absolutely no issues with that). Perhaps I send the "messy hair and I don't care" vibe.
I mean, I DO care, but not to the extent that is required to fit in .. so I guess I don't care. I, too, have another  child with rather significant medical health issues for the past 10 years, and that is consuming in itself. So, I must look frazzled because I am!
Nevertheless, I wish life wasn't so hard. Hard to fit in, Hard to make friends, even casual friends at that, hard to just survive.
I am just grateful that there is an outlet for my thoughts on this forum, to share, commiserate, albeit anonymously with one another.
It makes life less hard.  grateful for the small things.

NumbLotus, I feel for you. I read a couple of your previous posts... Having a troubled marriage darkens so much of life, and it is never in a vacuum! I feel for you and your daughter. Shame has a way of making something bad, become much worse. Don't succumb to the downward spiral of shame.  You don't deserve it! It I hope you find a way to self- care, bring yourself healing and peace. YOU matter, and it's important that you know that to start doing things to that end. I send encouraging thoughts your way!

[NumbLotus]

Hey, thanks, you brought a smile to my face.

Sorry if I made your thread too much about me. I just could relate.

I would have a hard time with the Kate Spade crowd. I am happy to live in a town where that isn't a thing.

[JustKat]

I definitely relate to the feelings of loneliness and isolation. I'm pretty outgoing but have always struggled with friendships. I do try, but something always goes wrong. I walk my dog around the entire neighborhood every morning and am very outgoing and friendly to everyone, but as NumbLotus said, most of the women already have social circles and will politely say hello as they pass by with their group of walking companions.

Other times I sabotage myself. I'll often have former colleagues or new neighbors ask me out to lunch or a show, and I'll decline because of my own insecurities. I feel that I'm not worthy of friendship and am afraid I'll just muck things up, so instead I push myself away until the person moves on, thinking I don't want to be their friend. I've been like this my entire life, but I was raised to believe I was stupid and ugly and everyone hated me, and it's just so hard to shake that.

I'm no longer in the workplace but also left several jobs due to toxic conditions. These were jobs that I never should have taken in the first place, but again, I was raised to believe I should be grateful for scraps and lacked the confidence to turn down a position working for someone who sent out bad signals in the interview.

I wish I had some advice on this one but I'm afraid the best I can offer is to tell you you're not alone. This isn't your fault. We were raised by abusive parents and things that mess with our heads at such young ages stay in our heads. I'm also getting by with "superficial friendships," which is kind of okay for me. It's harder to get hurt by someone you don't get close to.

I know this forum can't take the place of real-life friendships, but coming here does help. Everyone here "gets it." You're not alone.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Moms in my community (those seemingly well adjusted ones with full lives) actually say out loud to new people that they don't need new friends so don't bother trying to talk to them or try to become friends.  As a result I've managed to make friends with a PD and another mom with severe depression who is barely functional who latched onto me.  I just want friends - lunch, coffee, a walk, etc.  Am I expecting too much?

That doesn't seem healthy at all! Don't bother, I'm good? Sounds horribly cliquish. What happened to solidarity? We moms are all in this together, in my view. 

I don't think you're asking too much. But friendship has to have a basis other than, "I need a friend!" That takes time to build. The people you just say hi to now could be your potential friends, even if you don't see it right away. I relate to JustKathy and the self-sabotage due to feeling unworthy and being sure they all hate me. (I even had my NF tell me over and over from young childhood that I could expect everyone to hate me because I'm smarter than they are.) I think we expect friendship to be easier but really it is hard in adulthood for everyone. We don't see that but just assume the problem is with us like we usually do.

[Riggo199]

I am so glad for this topic!  I have gone NC with my FOO.  I wondered if I am just a loner or is it because of my upbringing....by NARCS.  I used to be life-of-the-party, THE social organizer.  Then, I developed spinal arthritis...had to retire early ....quit all alcohol and drugs and am a completely different person.  I, too, struggle with friendships.  I realized I had chosen my friendships that mirrored my Narc parents and when I got sick, they all fell by the wayside.  I went down a dark depression hole. 

Fast forward today:  3 years now....still retired.  I go to yoga 4-5x per week to stay pain free and off meds.  I really work on self-development and trying to stay in the moment.  Some days I can get down, thinking I have no-one but on those days, I start a new knitting project, or clean, or watch youtube videos:  sadhguru, eckhardt tolle, Adyshanti, Les Carter, Stephanie Lynn (life coach) and try and remember the sadness is just your thoughts....and tomorrow is brand new and you may feel like calling someone for coffee!  I just tell myself that I am working on getting stronger and some day, all the crap I went through will be long gone and I will be able to help alot of people.  I also started going to al-anon 4 weeks ago and that is really helping!  I didn't think this group pertained to my situation (crazy, abusive parents) but I found many people that have parents just like mine.  I am not ready to talk yet, I just listen and it helped me alot.  I FEEL the warmth of the group I am in....thinking (oh, maybe someday I will find a friend here)!  Anyway, hope this helps.  You are NOT alone!!

[Adria]

Unknown,

Thank you for posting this. I'm sorry you feel this way. You said everything I feel every minute of every day.  I feel like the whole world is buzzing around me and everyone knows their role, and I'm left behind. I've been ghosted by my family for three decades, and can't seem to find anywhere to fit in.  I just wish I had another woman to go to coffee with, or even a walk down the street with.  I don't know why it is so hard to find.  My DH says it's because everyone is on social media.  I'm not on Facebook, never wanted to be as it seems somewhat superficial. I much prefer real life, in person, friendships. But, I guess that's not the way of the world anymore. 

I've also come across women who look to be a promising friend, only to find that they are running their agenda on me, and if it's not my thing, then they disappear.   Maybe it's signs of the times.  I don't know.  But, know this, you are not alone in this. Hugs, Adria

[hibiscus]

Hello Unknown,

Except for a few details, I could have written your OP.  I'm also in my forties, and I've been NC with my FOO for six years or so (I've lost count).  I also feel lonely -- increasingly lonely, in fact.  I'm also an introvert, and I can't say I have a practical need for friends, since my SO gives me all the companionship I need, but I sometimes think that it's a little strange, and probably unhealthy, for a member of society to be so alone.  Most weeks, my only human interaction is with my SO.  Over the past few years, I've lost several old friends, as I realized that they had never truly been my friends and were using me for their own purposes (to feel better about themselves by putting me down).  I no longer have any tolerance for the slightest disrespect, or for any kind of annoying behavior.  There are two or three people I want to be friends with, and who have shown interest in being friends, but I'm always so overwhelmed with my work that I have made no effort to meet with them in months.

I wanted to tell you, though, that it's not good for you to stay in a toxic workplace.  Every day that you spend in that environment is hurting you.  I was also in a toxic environment for a few years, and it took me a long time to recover fully.  I urge you to consider other options, even if it means a step down in terms of status and income.  Don't feel that you have to stay in your current career.  I got out of a field I had put over a decade and a half of passionate effort into.  It was painful, and I had to go through a lengthy grieving period, but in the end, it was better for my mental health and happiness.  That may or may not be the right choice for you, but always keep in mind that it's never too late to make a big change.

[JustKat]

Over the past few years, I've lost several old friends, as I realized that they had never truly been my friends and were using me for their own purposes (to feel better about themselves by putting me down).  I no longer have any tolerance for the slightest disrespect, or for any kind of annoying behavior.

Hibiscus, I'm so glad you mentioned this. It's happened to me twice now and both times I had to cut ties with the person. One was a female friend and work colleague who was having some kind of mid-life crisis and did nothing but tear me down all day. Ending that relationship was easy as she was too self-absorbed to even notice I was gone. The other is a male neighbor who my husband and I have been friends with for several years. He's miserable over a failed career and started taking it out on me. I used to walk by his house every morning so our dogs could play, but his behavior became worse and worse, constantly berating me so he could feel better about himself. I finally stood up to him, and of course, his response was that I was crazy and imagining it.

I'll no longer tolerate it either, but unfortunately, when it happens it really eats at me and I start to blame myself. I think there's something wrong with me, that I'm too sensitive, or that I don't know how to be a good friend. I see other people enjoying healthy relationships with their friends so I must be doing something wrong.

I hate hearing that this has happened to other people but am also relieved to know it's not just me. Sometimes I feel like I'm wearing a sign inviting this kind of behavior. I mean, really, how do these PD people find us?

[Unknown]

Hibiscus- Thank you for your response. Intellectually, I know that it is estimated that up to 50% of the population is an introvert, (that's 1:2)
but it sure feels like I am alone, most days. Probably because our society tends to over glorify extroverting and attention, but it sure does help to "meet" an introvert like me, albeit anonomously! 

I feel I am "hyper-vigilant" for any kind of abuse due to my background and although it's helpful, it also sometimes gives me a phobia about it too. Thanks for your encouragement about work.. I am trying to leave.. They say finding a new job is a full time job. It ebbs and flows. I am trying to "pivot" in my'' chosen'' career and it is harder than it seems. A lot harder. ( chosen in quotation marks, because although I do take responsibility for choosing it 26 years ago, I feel like I really didn't choose it. My N family did. I did what they wanted me to do, and only now am I "waking up" to how bad of a choice that was for me.)  Some days I get so exhausted, and emotionally depleted "trying", (resumes sent out, no response, no interviews, re-vamping my resume again only to try again and still get nada) so I have to take a break, recharge. etc Also, networking is really not my strength, although I recognize its virtues and necessity, as in introvert, I'd rather "not and say I did" as the saying goes. But, that "putting yourself out there" gets exhausting as well. I keep thinking that one day, it will pay off, and I will find the right job, to just hang in there. It is so hard to keep encouraging myself though. An uphill battle every day. I have talents, skills, (that are transferable) but the trick is to convince someone else that they are. That's the hard part.  I so appreciate your personal anecdote, it is encouraging. Thank  you.
JustKathy- I have read some of your past posts and so much of what you write truly resonates with me and what I have experienced, It's uncanny. I also want to thank  you for sharing... makes me feel less alone, thank you. I shake my head almost daily, wondering if I have a bullseye on my back too. It's remarkable how PDs find us. I am going to start posting in future goals. I never have because I have been so focused on just getting by each day. But, I think it will be helpful because I truly believe (still) believe - that there are good, normal, people out there,  so I can find them, right? I have a lot to offer, even just a casual friend, taking a walk, coffee , sharing a laugh. Not asking for too much as my DH meets most of my needs, but cannot meet every one. We all need friends. 

[Whitesheep45]

Unknown
I really hear you in your writing..
It is so well put and I relate so much to it..
I just came on and this post puts what I feel and have delt with...
The loneliness is so hard... Grief
I'm going through that right now.. Letting go of my f is so huge for me 'the daddy dream'. Orphaned is a good way to describe it.. I've been through it once before yrs ago and now am going through it again... I feel destitute
I too had a lot of workplace issues I left my career a year ago..
I struggle with society a whole lot and yesturday at a post I volunteer at the women I was shadowing was hostile. I reported her and the women I reported her to was illusive.. I however was pleased I stood up and questioned her words and said I don't think I'm wrong to report it.. This is a first for me to calmly say my piece.
Workplaces are so full of power dynamics that's the issue...
Quote
` two introverts never find each other '
Yes it's a funny one isn't it.. And often introverts are drown out by the noisy ones in social situations..
There are meet up groups where introverts are found... Walking groups can be a good one or more mindful nature type activities...
I live in the UK and have found people but staying in contact is another thing.. But that's because I flit from activity to activity..
There is hope in this area.. Complex trauma is an attachment disorder but healing is possible every step of the way

[Whitesheep45]

Numb lotus
Thank u for talking about the lower ability to tolerate toxicity...
That is so where I am at but have been looking at it as I'm more defective rather than actually seeing it as a positive boundary setting...
Thank u

[Whitesheep45]

I've joined a house sitting service so I can go and stay in other environments time to time and be with animals

[JustKat]

JustKathy- I have read some of your past posts and so much of what you write truly resonates with me and what I have experienced, It's uncanny. I also want to thank you for sharing... makes me feel less alone, thank you.

I'm glad to hear you feel less alone. Forums like this one have been a real blessing to me for that very reason. It was a life-changing moment for me the first time I read a post from someone who had experienced the exact same things I had with my NPDmother. It really is uncanny. Sometimes I read posts from other people and feel like we grew up in the same house. I'm so sorry to hear that others have suffered the same way but it IS comforting to know we aren't alone in this.

Sending hugs to everyone....