Helping perfectionism

Started by athene1399, November 12, 2019, 06:39:32 AM

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athene1399

I'm not sure if this is the place to discuss or if anyone else has this problem. SD18 is a perfectionist. SO and I try to tell her that we are proud of her no matter what, but it still seems that she obsesses over being perfect.  As in she's terrified to get a bad grade (anything below a 97) so spends a lot of time doing home work or studying. No matter what grade she gets, we tell her she did a good job, even if it's below her standards. We also try to tell her as long as she does her best at something that's all that matters, but I don't know if that is sending the "you must study hard or else" message. She just puts so much pressure on herself and it causes a lot of anxiety.

Does any else's kids or step kids feel the need to be perfect all the time? How do you help to relieve some of that pressure?

Penny Lane

Maybe this is unhelpful. But I really identify with your SD. And I have to say, if her college experience is anything like mine, she will HAVE to learn to let go of perfect. Eventually she will have three papers due and a test all in one week. And she will really learn the value of "good enough." The best thing you can do is be there, be supportive and remind her that a 96% isn't a negative reflection of her worth as a human.

athene1399

That is helpful, Penny. Thank you. I like your idea of grades not reflecting self-worth. SO didn't get high grades in school, so maybe if we say something like SO is still a good person even if he didn't get the best of grades. I failed a class once, so maybe I can tel her that too. It was a hard class and I had a lot going on so failed, and that is okay.

I've also suggested counseling on campus if she feels she needs it and left her with a pamphlet. Right now the only T she is working with is a friend of BM's. I feel that SD's perfectionism is driven by BM and that therapy will help her to sort it out, but that doesn't appear to be an option at this time. The T has been suggesting coping mechanisms, but I feel it's a deeper-seated issue. But maybe SD's not ready to go there.

But my other conflicting thing is I read somewhere to help kids not grow up to be narcissistic, you praise them for their hard work and effort and not their "skills". BM is entitled and narcissistic at times, so I've made sure I praise SD "correctly", but now I'm wondering if praising her for her efforts is adding to the pressure. We've also tried to make it clear that we love her no matter what and it's okay to take breaks and she doesn't have to work so hard all the time. And she's said to me before she tries hard to make us proud. I told her we are already proud and we will be proud no matter what and that she should be doing good in school if that's what she wants to do, not because she thinks that's what we want.

Whenever SD gets the 96% and is upset, I tell her that is a great grade even if she isn't happy with it. I also remind her that some tests will be harder than others and that you can't get that perfect grade all the time and that's ok. She is aware of her perfectionism, so I guess that is a start. She's been working on it since last year. She's even had teachers tell her that she puts too much pressure on herself. SD knows she does as well, but doesn't know how to stop the pressure.

Maybe I could help SD figure out what drives the perfectionism and just ask her a bunch of open ended questions. Like "why do you think you feel that way?" And just let her sit with it. Maybe when the semester's over so I don't add to her stress.

I guess my fear is that in trying to help, we are making it worse. And I have a problem with this as well. I know my parents made me feel defective, but I don't know where to go from there either. It's like that line in the Matrix, you can't see past the choice you don't understand. Maybe me not fully understanding my own perfectionism adds to my confusion on how to help SD. Maybe one day I will take my own advice and go into therapy. lol

GettingOOTF

Anxiety often manifests as perfectionism. Most people think of anxiety as "panic attack"-type behavior. But things like working long hours and perfectionism are also signs of anxiety.

Is she in therapy? I realize she's your SD so your options are limited here, but there is a lot of literature on anxiety so even if you can't get her in to therapy, you can help her through this. She's lucky to have you on her life. Most people see perfectionism as a good and admirable trait.

Stepping lightly

Hi Athene,

We deal with this as well.  DSS got all A's and 1 B on his report card and he's upset about it.  The B is in a class that he is taking that is a full grade level ahead, and we try to remind him of that.   I think it's important for kids to understand that they will be good at somethings, and not good at other things.  None of us are good at everything.  Trial and error helps us find our path on what we are good at and what we aren't.  I don't think praise for hard work and skills is mutually exclusive. 

I think talking about it with her is a great thing.  Sometimes knowing we aren't the only ones that feel a certain way can be a game changer.  Stress and anxiety are helpful emotions in limited amounts, they drive us to work hard and do better.  But uncontrolled can cause burnout and anxiety issues.  She's still really early in her college career, and like PL said, she is going to learn that sometimes, you have got to prioritize and just make it through.  Life is not pretty and orderly or a straight line to completion.  There are lots of bends and curves, successes and failures....it's life. 

What does she do to maintain stress levels?  I talked to DSD about this recently, how little things can make a huge difference.  I gave her the list of things I do, taking a walk, smelling lavender, drinking a cup of tea, a hot bath etc. Small habits that can recenter her might be helpful.  I have my morning routine where I get up a bit earlier, and I sit with my coffee and look at news/facebook for a little while before I dive into work (I work from home so that makes it easy).  That little bit of time to roll into my day in a controlled way, helps set the pace for the rest of the day.  But maybe she can routinely meet a friend for breakfast, and that can set her tone.

Whiteheron

Quote from: athene1399 on November 14, 2019, 07:58:07 AM
But my other conflicting thing is I read somewhere to help kids not grow up to be narcissistic, you praise them for their hard work and effort and not their "skills". BM is entitled and narcissistic at times, so I've made sure I praise SD "correctly", but now I'm wondering if praising her for her efforts is adding to the pressure. We've also tried to make it clear that we love her no matter what and it's okay to take breaks and she doesn't have to work so hard all the time. And she's said to me before she tries hard to make us proud. I told her we are already proud and we will be proud no matter what and that she should be doing good in school if that's what she wants to do, not because she thinks that's what we want.

I think this is perfect. Be consistent with this message.

My DS is also a perfectionist. When stbx was at his worst, DS's grades dropped drastically. He learned that it was ok. The world didn't end. We still loved him.
You can't destroy me if I don't care.

Being able to survive it doesn't mean it was ever ok.

athene1399

Thank you everyone.

Getting Out of the FOG, I've never realized the connection between anxiety and perfection, but what you said makes sense. SD does have a lot of anxiety. We try to help her with that too. I suggested counseling on campus (it's right by where she dorms). I don't think she want to go there yet. BM sets up appointments or calls from this other counselor now and then. This counselor SD was seeing before and she is BM's friend from high school. SO and I don't like or trust this counselor. SO and I feel this is a conflict of interest that has affected this counselor in the past. 

SO and I also have anxiety and try to discuss with SD how we work through it. My other issue is my parents always minimized my anxiety, and I don't want SD to feel we are minimizing it. I try to lead with "I know this is stressful, but it will be ok. You can get through this." LIke I try to validate her feelings first, and then share what I do when anxious or remind SD that things will be ok and that good grades aren't everything. Honestly, part of my problem is my own anxiety over not wanting to repeat my parents' mistakes. It makes me so afraid I don't know what to do sometimes (so then I pop on here.  :) Thank you guys so much for the years of advice!!). I should probably look up more ways to cope with anxiety. Different things work for different people, so maybe I can find something we've not thought of.

SL, I like the reminder that people aren't good at everything. She knows I am good in school, so I think maybe talking to her about my F might be helpful. Like I didn't have to retake the class, I just had to take a fun summer course to get the 3 credits to graduate. I still got my diploma. The other thing I was thinking of telling her is that when she graduates, no employer is going to ask what grade she got in English 101 or whatever. Like that may help alleviate from of the pressure.

Also, while I do encourage her to take breaks from homework/studying, I don't think I've ever asked her what she does to cope with anxiety or shared things I do to alleviate stress. That is a good idea.

WH, thank you for the reminder with consistency. I think that is key when dealing with someone with a PD parent. I feel like the love with a PD parent doesn't feel unconditional, so reminding SD that our love is is helpful.

We took SD out last night for dinner and I think that helped her too. The counselor phone call appointment BM made the other night for SD was to help SD with stress/anxiety and loneliness. When SD told us of that, the loneliness threw SO and I for a loop. But anyway, at dinner last night SD was talking about maybe wanting to be a professor because she likes what she is doing. SO and I both said we could see that. I said "yeah, and you are always tutoring friends". Then she said "I forgot about that. I do do that a lot. I guess I'm not as lonely as I thought." (paraphrase). When we dropped SD off, she said she was feeling really good and happy, too. So I think part of the problem could be BM projecting how she is feeling on SD as well, especially with the loneliness. But I think maybe the only way to combat that is to do everything we are talking about and reminding SD of everything she already is doing.

Stepping lightly

I remember starting college, and there is definitely a ton of different emotions going on right  off the bat.  I loved college, but I was far from my family and  being on my own was a big adjustment.  It is such a massive change, living on your own and all of the sudden being responsible for getting to your classes, studying, and having/doing everything you need to care for yourself.  Living at home, all I had to do was say,  "hey mom, running low on shampoo" and voile! it was in the shower next time I looked.  These are small things, but they can compound when she is also trying to cope with difficult classes with expectations above what she is used to.

One of the things I've talked to DSD about is that as an adult you have past experiences that you can draw from to understand the impact/probability/how to manage the situation better.  For example, this is her first semester, so it's big and scary.  Next semester...she knows the drill, things are a bit less scary. 

Heavyhat

My SD8 is a perfectionist too. She also tends to criticize her step-brothers if they aren't doing something correctly (in her opinion). From what we can see it seems to stem from low self-esteem. She is looking for something/someone she can control and feel better than.

Lately I have started saying to all of them "who cares if you're good at math or good at soccer or can play the piano if you're unkind and unfair to people around you. Being kind and just is way more important than being talented."

They were a little shocked the first time o said it.

I think it takes far more hard work to maintain good relationships than to get an A on a test. And I want them to know that the ability to have self-compassion, work through disagreements and positively encourage their peers will determine their success in life much more than academics or talent will. In fact, I'd wager it will even HELP them with their grades and piano lessons!

athene1399

I don't think I've heard SD really criticize other for not doing things "correctly", but when she does get nit-picky (like "this cashier at the store sounded mean and she has no right to be like that") I try to remind her that you don't know what other people are going through, and even though that person shouldn't be mean to you because they are having a bad day, if you are mean back that is not right either. And SD sometimes picks up on people her mom doesn't like and she'll start talking about them too. I try to get her to see things from their point of view. Like "it sounds like you feel they were doing this to be mean, but what is x was really going on and you misinterpreted it?" She usually says "i never thought of that". That's going back a year or two. I haven't heard her say anything mean about people in a while.

At any rate, it's coming up to exam week and SD is feeling pretty good. :) It could be that part of it was this is new to her and new things make her nervous. Maybe she is realizing she can handle it. Also, a couple weeks ago she was talking about going to the gym on campus. It is right by her dorm. I told her working out helps me with stress so it may help her too. So I think she is figuring out how to manage stress. And if she does get anxious again, we can ask her what she did this semester that helped. It seems that if we get her thinking about things, it brings her out of her anxiety and calms her down. And it's not like she's having a panic attack when we see her, just she's so worried about everything I think she forgets about all the good things she is doing and how well things are going.

Call Me Cordelia

There's a lot of good advice here, but I just wanted to add a little thing. I'm also a recovering perfectionist. The "do your best" line is honestly a trigger for me. I'm sure you and your SO are not doing this, Athene, but my uNM used that line against me. They would deflect accusations of putting pressure on me with, "We only ask you to do your best." Because it's ALWAYS possible to try harder, the "best" my Nparents expected was actually perfection. And then when I did score that 100% or straight A's, well that's only what's expected because we know you're capable of it. No need to praise and give you a big head about it.

In reality nobody does their best at everything all the time. What I needed to learn was the idea of "good enough." Am I giving this thing the effort it deserves? Am I approaching my life and responsibilities in a balanced healthy way? Am I prioritizing what is actually most important to me? These are harder questions than am I trying my best. If your SD is a perfectionist, no doubt she's driven. But what is that drive actually aimed at? For me it's dealing with my internal sense of inadequacy. If I can do all the the things and do them perfectly, I prove I'm "good enough." Except that proof only lasts until the next assignment appears and then I start all over again. I needed to deal with the false beliefs instilled by my FOO. The perfection habit still pops up but I can recognize and stop it now.

athene1399

That is great advice, Cordelia. I think I have used the "do you best" line, although not in the way your parents have. But I did wonder if that's saying "you have to try as hard as you can no matter what or else". I like the "good enough" and will use that instead.

SO had to take an exam to get certified in something and was so nervous. His one friend said " no one is going to ask what you got on your exam. They just care you have the certificate".  I think next time she is anxious about an exam, he can share that with her. But then I get anxious becasue what if SD decides to drop out of school? I don't want her deciding that then feeling like a failure becasue we said  "only getting the degree at the end matters". We just want her to do what makes her happy. I don't care if she goes to college, I just want her to do something that brings her joy the rest of her life. And I don't want her to feel pressured into any parental expectations. As of right now she wants her degree, but what if that changes and she remembers we said "no one cares what your grades are at the end as long as you get your degree..." I'm probably just thinking myself into circles now. Some of my problem is my own anxiety. I'm so afraid that in trying to say the right thing I'm really saying the wrong thing.