BPD and Alcoholism

[rlainfrank]

I have lived with a diagnosed (and treated) BPD before and am well aware of the condition.  Fast forward, I got married 1.5 years ago (with little courtship), and about 6 months into the relationship it became apparent my wife was an alcoholic.  I also drank socially, and probably drank too much from time to time, but my wife CRAVED alcohol and drank to excess...becoming a very different person.  We had physical altercations...she would throw things at me, and I would try to keep her from doing that by physically restraining her and I certainly didn't do well when I was drinking.  She would also hit me without warning, which I did NOT return that action.  She blamed me for all of the actions, and said I was a controlling abuser and held her down all the time.  I take responsibility for my part for sure.  I thought the problem was alcohol and quit drinking, and asked her to do the same.  A couple of times she would start to, but only after a night of absolute abuse.  I mean the worst, Jekyll and Hyde stuff.  Sometimes with physical violence (and at this point I knew to never do anything but retreat and escape).  The next day was always full of regret and apology.  It took a few days but we would enter a new cycle. 

OK, so we work together, and she is not very good at stress with her job.  I help her all the time, but she is often frustrated at me when I don't do it exactly as she likes it.  But I continue to set my work aside to help her, then play catch up with mine. 

When she went to school, I found I was helping her with schoolwork a lot.  She finally quit that program.

There is a pattern forming...but I didn't realize it until I read the forum today.

Fast forward again in this cycle I am in, and all throughout, I hadn't seen the forest for the trees.  The BPD symptoms were all there masked by the alcohol.  She blames me for all her shortcomings.  Says I do the things that she is actually doing.  Tells me to go, then calls me 10 mins later to come back (and I have left when she is drinking).  She has self image and eating issues, but again, I always thought they were centered around drinking.

BTW, she has been on Ambien for years for sleep issues and abuses it from time to time.  And yes, she had a traumatic childhood that she has never fully explained.

She went on anti-anxiety medication (Xanax) a couple of months ago, and at first it seemed to help, but that was also while she was drinking.

Well, two weeks ago she got drunk and punched me in the eye, unprovoked, and I left...it was pretty bad.  I stayed with my sister.  Said I would not come back unless she got help and quit drinking.  BTW, she had a DUI a few years ago and went through AA before.  She begged me to come back and committed to quit and go to AA.  I returned.  That is the second time she has done that...and as before, the latter has gone to the wayside, but this is the longest she has quit.  I told myself that I would be able to deal with anything if she just quit drinking, but I didn't realize the deeper issue.  OMG, I wanted to throw up when it clicked.

This led me to the forum, the absence of alcohol has magnified her symptoms of BPD.  If she has ever been diagnosed, she has not told me that, but I think she may have.  BTW, she has a psychology degree (and doesn't practice in the field).  I am 100% sure she has it, and it is crystal clear, especially after this weekend.  I walk on eggshells more than ever before, we have a financial plan to get out of the hole we were in when we got married and now she want to just impulsively spend.  When I disagree with her choice on something like a rug, she says "you are just controlling!!"  I offer an alternative, she says "you just want it your way!".  Her mood swings, but in a weird way, and she is explosive.  And she is suspicious of everything (and when she was drinking it became paranoia).  She does randomly ask all the time, in a childlike voice, "do you love me?"  "will you always love me?"  and "you will never leave me, right?"  My answers have always been yes.  But today, I just don't know about the last one.

Maybe this was more to vent to someone, or maybe for a sanity check.  She still won't admit she has a drinking problem, so i know she will never admit to any mental health issues.  She tells me I am crazy all the time, or that she "won't participate in this crazy that is you!" to me.  I am a pretty good even keeled guy with a few faults, but am very relaxed, calm and laid back.  I  have found myself a caretaker i this situation...first I realized it was today.  I love her, and I failed my first marriage (which I was not married to a BPD...that was a woman after the marriage), so I don't want to screw this up. 

Thanks for "listening"  Better to type than to cry...which is what I want to do most days...which I can't do in front of her anymore.

[NumbLotus]

Hey,

I'm no professional, but it does sound like BPD, yeah. I think you're onto it.

Alcohol helps them to cope somewhat, though it backfires. My H is BPD-ish and he drowns his pain in beer every day.

If you are thinking of telling her you think she has BPD, DON'T. She's not going to say, oh gosh, I guess that explains it. People who have coped with having a BPD diagnosis get that diagnosis from professionals, not loved ones, and only due to therapy THEY seek or EMERGENCY treatment, not because loved ones pushed them to see a therapist.

It's been helpful to me to learn about PTSD, specifically CPTSD. More than BPD info, CPTSD info has helped me to understand what is going on, the WHY.

I commend you very much for your evolution in your response to her ohysically abusive behavior. You are right to just physically remove yourself.

Here's your sanity check from someone else living in CrazyTown. What you've described is not normal and not okay. You are not crazy. I know what it's like to constantly wonder if I'm crazy. I'm really not, not at all, yet when you hear it 100,000 times, empatically, at top volume, etc, it starts to worm its way in.

[rlainfrank]

Thank you, and yes I don't think I will ever dare say anything about her mental health.  Shoot, one day I suggested she talk to someone about her (self described) depression and she went ballistic.  Oh, and she still won't admit to the alcoholism.

I realize I now have a choice.  Learn to live with it or leave.  I left my last long term GF because of BPD issues and the fact she wasn't a believer. Well, my wife is a believer in Christ.  But BPD issues weren't nearly as bad as as they are now, and it was never physical. 

[NumbLotus]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat - leave or stay.

I have a child with my H. I suppose it goes without saying you should be sure nothing gets more complicated, iykwim. And you may not be able to rely on her alone to ensure that.

[HotCocoa]

I'm so sorry, this sounds like more than one person can take on.  I can relate to living with an alcoholic in denial and there is nothing you can do to get her to stop drinking.  Nothing.  My first thought is, get yourself into an al anon program.  It is not for everyone, but knowing you are not alone is helpful.  It also helps to hear, over and over again, I am powerless against alcohol.  I understand feeling like a caretaker, you may learn some steps on how to handle not being an enabler.  However, I believe this has quickly gone into the area of safety and physical risk which is above all else.
I understand not wanting a marriage to fail after one failed marriage, however, nothing is worth your personal safety.  Good luck.

[rlainfrank]

Thank you, I did check into al Anon, and of course this enraged her that I even went.  But it was helpful.  At this point though, another drop and I am gone...don't even think I can handle a relapse.  Fortunately my sister lives close and has a place for me.  She is supportive, but also has encouraged me to leave.   My wife is committed to not drinking, but crazy how things were "almost better" when she was.  Day to day life was better, but certainly not the alcohol infused Jekyll episodes.  You wouldn't believe it if I told you how it was.   Ok, maybe this group would.  Lol.

[rlainfrank]

I have to add today was a classic example.  She has a task at work that is overwhelming her, and she has a migraine (she gets those a lot).  I had work to do this morning, but am always available if she asks.  This afternoon I offered to help.  She rebuffed my offer, said, "well it would have been helpful this morning, but now is useless," and became a real horse's behind about it.  Then she said, "you can move my stuff" (she is moving from one cubicle to another). I came to see what I could move and not disrupt her work, talked to her objectively about it, but just got ridiculed and shood away.  The entire evening will be about how I didn't do anything to help her. 

[sad_dog_mommy]

I am sorry you are in this situation but I am glad you found this support board.   I thank my lucky stars for the day I found it.

I lived with a man who was diagnosed with BDP and also had terrible drinking problem so I can relate to the chaos you describe in your post.   I think addictions are part of the way BPD people try to cope with their condition.  The thrill of shopping, the satisfaction of eating or the mind numbing of heavy drinking allows them to escape from the 'demon' of deep insecurity and self-doubt they feel.   Over the course of the almost 10 years we were together the 'good times' were less and less and the manic/rage times were meaner and more frequent.

Abuse is never ok.  And that includes the other kinds of abuse that people sort of gloss over 'because he didn't hit me" like financial abuse and verbal abuse.   If you wife is hitting you she needs serious help.   Promising to go to AA is one thing.    If she got a sponsor and a 90 chip that would be proof to you that she is taking things seriously this time.

Here is the thing I learned though Al-anon.  You cannot fix them.  They have to want to change AND they have to do the painful work to get to the root of why they abuse alcohol, drugs, food or gambling as a distraction from their problems.    Al-anon taught me to shift the focus to myself.   I was soooo co-dependent.  I actually kept him from 'hitting rock bottom' many, many times.   I didn't 'save him', I just postponed the next rock bottom incident.    My ex was so irrational he would say that Al-anon was just a bunch of old ladies who were teaching me ways to break-up with him.   In fact, they were teaching me ways to save myself.

When he was diagnosed with BPD after his 1st involuntarily hospitalization for attempting suicide I thought that it would be something that could be cured/controlled by medication.  (It cant).   Learn all you can about the manipulative patterns and other traits.   It is kind of spooky how there is a defined set of characteristics for BPD.

Writing in a journal is very, very helpful.   I had to hide mine at work because he had no boundaries and would snoop through my things but the physical act of writing things out on paper got them out of my head for a little while.  AND it gave me a record, in my own words of what happened if I forgot the details of one of his 'incidents'.  After awhile I could see his patterns by re-reading the journal entries.

You are not alone.   

((( hug )))

[DreamingofQuiet]

All of it sounds awful, but I am appalled that she has physically abused you. I know she's a she, and you're stronger as a man, but the fact that she will go to that length is worrisome, to say the least. Just because you're a guy and she's a gal doesn't make it any less problematic or dangerous than if the genders were switched at least to me.

I am glad you are going to al-anon. Your safety comes first. And you don't have to accept unacceptable behavior. Please take care!

DoQ

[notrightinthehead]

In addition to all the good advice you have received above, you might want to check out the book 'Stop caretaking the borderline/narcissist' by Fjielstad. It has some really good suggestions on how to protect yourself better and how to work on your own issues.

[rlainfrank]

Thanks for that advice on the book, and yes, it is tough being a male and abused.  Worse, I am the dirtbag in her kids eyes (we have grown kids from previous marriages), but I never take the low road and won't badmouth her.  Funny, her daughter in law even said, "it doesn't matter if she hits you, you should never put your hands on her!"   Yeah, I certainly had to defend myself, and when I was drinking that was sloppy at best, but I am not that kind of guy.  I was super close to calling the police when she punched me two weeks ago.  Just couldn't do it.  I asked God for the strength to give grace, and I also felt the guidance to change and do something different.  Here I am, right?

We are spending the weekend flying out to see said kids over Thanksgiving.  They are very good kids by the way.  I appreciate some new found tools that will help me  get through the weekend (3 Cs, Don't JADE, Med Chill, and Gray Rock). I realize I have to leave her.  I can't do this again...just don't want to ruin her Thanksgiving weekend.  Thanks for the support and virtual hugs all!!

[Adria]

rlainfrank,

I'm so sorry for what you are going through and your wife as well.  It sounds like adrenaline to me.  Adrenaline is usually the main cause of BPD and alcoholism.  There is a wonderful book written by Dr. Platt called "Adrenaline Dominance."  It may change your life.  It's an easy read, and a lot of times natural progesterone can fix these situations as adrenaline and high estrogen run hand in hand, kind of like a permanent PMS situation.  Many times, that is what causes alcoholism because it is the only way they may know how to medicate themselves.  I went through something similar with my dh, and this saved our marriage along with listening to Jerry Wise on Youtube.  Some very interesting stuff.

You can also call Dr. Platt, the author of the book, and he will explain the simplicity of it to you on the phone and what to do at no charge. He is an amazing man.  If this works for you, it will change your world.  I wish you the best, Adria.

[rlainfrank]

Wow, thank you, I will read up on it!   The hard part will be getting her to recognize her issues.

Today was textbook on our trip to see family.  While on the plane she was making demands and statements about how something was going to be and wouldn't let me have input, but wanted to talk about it.  I stated my position, and decided to disengage and just sit quietly, and told her I would talk when she was ready to receive my input.   Medium Chill.  Well, she wanted a rise out of me, and when she didn't get it, she said and did things to me she only did when she was drunk before.  Really harsh words and pinching me hard (if we weren't on an airplane, she would have hit me).  She then said we just need to get divorced.  I offered to fly back when we land so she could visit her son peacefully for the weekend.   She was all for that.  For about 5 mins.  Then she said, well, I don't trust you, so you need to stay on the trip.  Then when I nicely told her that I would rather return home, she said she would just go back too.  Anyway, this kind of cycle repeated over the next several hours through luggage claim, and even the drive up to our destination.  Except she didn't do any more physical stuff after the airport because I put my foot down on that.  Then she gives me her, "do you love me?" In a sweet voice with the "you'll never leave me, right?" Question as well in between cycles.  But we are now running these cycles frequently all day.  I hate lying, but I am just trying to keep the peace to get through the weekend so her kids can have a nice weekend. 

I know they know about the alcohol, but I wonder if they have any idea about the BPD issues? 

Another question, would someone with BPD who loses all hope of getting their significant other back, tell everyone they are the devil (when it wasn't true)?  Just curious, as she is harsh on her ex (the kids father who she married twice).

Thanks for those who are reading.  Suppose this is just my way of trying to connect with someone somewhere. 

[Samuel S.]

I truly am so very sorry for the hardships you are encountering with your wife! She most definitely has a lot of issues that need to address!

While I can't give any advice, what I can share is what happened to a former colleague of mine. He was married. His wife divorced him. He got depressed. He started drinking. He had a couple of DUIs and crashed his car. Then, he went to a psychiatrist who gave him anti-depressants which seemed to help for a while. Then, he resumed drinking and taking these meds at the same time. Eventually, he had a major stroke and was in a convalescent home. After being discharged from there, he wasn't able to drive again. When I saw him several times when I was at a store, I said hi to him, and he didn't recognize me. He was a ward of the court with him living in a home by himself and with someone from the court coming to his home once a month to take care of his bills. As for food, etc., I don't know, but he must have had help. He was only in his mid 60s. That was some 25 years ago. More than likely, he has passed.

The reason why I am sharing this story with you is if you wish to share the above story with your wife, I suspect she needs to know this could be the result, if she starts mixing drinking and meds.

[Whiteheron]

Another question, would someone with BPD who loses all hope of getting their significant other back, tell everyone they are the devil (when it wasn't true)?  Just curious, as she is harsh on her ex (the kids father who she married twice).

Yes, absolutely. My stbxuPDh (probably a mix of NPD/BPD and dx bipolar II) has smeared me to everyone he speaks to. His work colleagues have been told I'm vicious and crazy, he's told them all I have mental problems. My in-laws, with whom I had a wonderful relationship for 20 years, now believe I am the problem and have demonized me (and this after admitting their son has some serious behavioral issues - it's as if these conversations never took place and I was making it all up). It's tough to hear these awful untruthful things about yourself.

Be prepared for a smear campaign like no other. A wounded PD can be vicious.

As for the repeated "do you love me", "you'll never leave me, right?" questions...stbx would do something similar. I would respond with "asked and answered" or "my answer hasn't changed." Because it got to the point where it would make me physically ill to repeatedly have to caretake his emotions like this. His need for constant reassurance after verbally abusing me was too much for me to handle towards the end.

[rlainfrank]

Thanks, yeah, She is in constant need of reassurance...over the top.  Gets mad if I don't do it right.  She Hoovered me in to an argument tonight, ugh. 

[SparkStillLit]

I'm working with a T right now to get some safe space for myself. In doing so, I am providing validation to updh. I am beginning to realize that's ALL. I. DO. It's like a black hole of needing validation.  And if I slip and fall into old patterns ...yow. I'm not getting anything but safe space out of it, either. It's a real eye opener, people.
Oh, yes, it "works", so to speak. It just....it really points up their priorities, I guess.

[GettingOOTF]

The issue with addictions is that even if you remove the substance the underlying issues are still there and may be amplified without that substance to damp them down. In general addicts use substances to damp down feelings they can’t deal with, removing the substance forces them to feel what they have been avoiding. It’s very hard work and not many are able to do it successful. The term white knuckling is used in the recovery community to describe and addict who has removed the substance and not dealt with the underlying issues. I find it a very accurate term.

I was married to someone diagnosed with BPD who also had a drinking problem so I know some of what you are dealing with.

I look back and I see I had a pattern of picking people who needed help and to be “fixed”. My sole mission in life was to save my ex from himself. This was not loving or helpful to either of us. You say you have been in two relationships with people with BPD. Is this a pattern?

For me I needed to take a hard look at myself and why I picked these people, I needed to focus on my habits and my own drug of choice - which was “helping” people and all the drama that entailed. I helped my ex in many of the same ways you are helping your wife - including with studies. I was more of an over-protective mother than a wife. It wasn’t healthy for either of us. 

I know many of us focus on what we can do for the PD in our lives. I did too but for me my healing really began when I turned my focus on myself and everything I’d been avoiding in my own internal life. I focused 100% on my ex so I could avoid having to look at my own pain.

My ex and I also had a very short courtship before marriage. There was no time to get to know each other. If you read around and speak to others you’ll see this is a very common pattern with PDs and their partners, it’s very common in Codependent relationships.

Codependent No More changed my life and I recommend it to everyone who is in a care taking relationship. It really allowed me to see my part in the dysfunction and how what I was doing was not helpful, it was controlling. Changing my behaviors did have a positive impact on my ex and our relationship. It also really dialed down the drama in our lives. I came to see that drama was a constant in my life to the point where it felt normal. 

In Al-Anon they talk about about the 3 Cs - I didn’t Cause it, I cannot Cure it and I cannot Control it. I have found this helpful in all areas of my life.

I ultimately chose to divorce my ex and focus on building a life that for most of my own life I didn’t feel worthy of.  He has found another Codependent caretaker who earns similar to me and can take care of everything for him. Her previous relationship was being married to an abusive man. They moved in together after only a few months. They are both repeating the same patterns. I am working on changing mine.

[rlainfrank]

Yeah, I found it alarming that I had two in a row like that, but they were both very different circumstances...the first helped me see the second for sure.  It sure makes me want to never be in a relationship again. 

I think I could write a book, LOL.  This morning she decided to make her hitting me my fault, that it was my "contribution" which is what led up to her "fight or flight" response to me.  So, not the truth, nor what happened.  Sadly, I forgave her, now she is looking for me to take responsibility...I refuse.  Sucked me in to getting upset...of all days.  But I think that was strategic for today. 

Thanks for the insight on the alcohol being removed...I see that playing out before my eyes.  She is dealing with feelings she can't handle. 

BTW, I have used a few terms with her I learned and she is keenly aware of them...either from previous diagnosis or her studies.  She likes to say, "your no psychologist".  I DO NOT DARE, say anything about being BP, just say things like, "I am not getting into a circular conversation", etc. 

Happy Thanksgiving all!!

[GettingOOTF]

It’s not our place to diagnose another person. This should only be done by a professional, and only if that person  sought out a diagnosis of their own free will.

A hard lesson for me was that not all of the behaviors I didn’t like in my ex were “PD” behaviors. Some of them were valid responses to my own dysfunctional way of relating to him - which was mostly trying to label and control.

As hard as it is it’s important to see the other person as a person and not their PD. I think many of us battle with that, I know I did and it was years before I was able to see that some of what he did and said was a direct reaction to things I said and did that I would now handle very differently.