Need Help navigating close friends group

[kenelevn]

Thank goodness for this site!
Here is the backstory. I live in a big city, and over the last 3 years, our friends group has grown to about 15. There are smaller close groups within that, and few couples. 5 months ago a girl that had recently moved met one of our friendliest guys and they started hanging out. They, and about 5 others, are all from the same state, including his GF. The new girl, quickly became friends with everyone, and we hit it off. There were a few single guys in our group interested in her, and she has gotten attention from them, but she was most interested in me. After playing it slow, we finally talked about us, and decided to go out on a date. We were going out for 2.5mo, openly bf/gf for the last 4.5 weeks.

Once the emotional weight increased, we started getting into fights. Not sure why they couldn't be resolved, I started trying to learn about manipulative and passive aggressive behavior. 2 weeks ago I realized that her mood swings were happening on their own, not because of my actions/words. And that led me to believing she is uHPD. Once I realized that, I have a hard time seeing her behavior as anything but. I felt like I was in-tune with both sides of our circular conversations for the first time, and could see the pointless struggle of reasoning with her. 2 days ago I broke up with her.

I have been going through the standard FOG, wishing she could just be better because there was so much about her that I liked. But I made the decision to break up because I felt it was better than accepting decreased levels of manipulation and abuse even if she was more aware of her disassociation, and of course I still fantasize about being with her, and worry I made a mistake. But now I am really anxious about how to approach everything moving forward.

Because our friends group is so close, I fear she is going to form an alliance against me. She has won over most of the women, and is besties with all of them. There were also some things that I said and did that she could hold against me. Most of it is just twisted to fit her perspective, but she would tell me that I am mean, insensitive, pessimistic, and said things to hurt her. I feel none of that is true, I have always tried to be aware of other people's feelings, and am the "trusted" guy with some of the women. They are comfortable talking to me about private matters. Yet a week ago, I was teasing my ex, and she was offended, she said "It's interesting that you are the guy that is considered to be the most respectful of women, but you are actually really cruel." I have my own anxiety, and fears, and I worry that she is going to spread THAT message now, that behind what other people see, I am a monster.

I have only told my two closest friends about the breakup, and am trying to study the NC/MC pages as best I can. I am going to try my best to play everything neutral to not hurt her, but not allow myself to be vilified. I was a really great bf in the beginning, and me breaking it off may come as an odd move from the perspective of our group. So I am hoping to prepare myself for the inevitable conversations with our friends.

How much can/should I tell them? I made the mistake of suggesting she see professional help when breaking it off, something that struck a cord b/c her last ex told her she was bipolar.  I don't know if I should come out and say she is Histrionic, or I believe she has HPD? I would only say this when confronted with why I ended it.

I also don't think that is fair for me to say. Should I instead explain the behaviors I saw? Seems like HPD is a tough one, because the surface of her behavior is so useful in social settings. But I've seen her steer the attention to her, interrupt stories, hold people hostage to be her ally. I can almost predict that she will try to make me out as mean, vindictive, and verbally abusive in private. And I fear that if I try to make our friends aware of her behavior, it will fit right into her narrative. But I also fear that if I don't, then it is just enabling her at the sacrifice of how others view me.

How much of my views/insight is it appropriate to share?

[Latchkey]

Hey kenelevn and welcome,

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Navigating friend groups is hard post break-up. Keeping things as on the surface as possible is usually the best. Also, taking care of yourself and not being around her too much is probably healthier.

I'm going to suggest in general, not using words like HPD or even PD but describing behaviors of anyone - and just leaving it there for others to name is best usually. Many times HPD as I've seen it is mixed with NPD or BPD and all 3 share some of the same behaviors. What is important is that you have an idea what is going on and you can navigate better knowing what you are dealing with.

Unfortunately warning people usually backfires as people with PDs are often some of the most charming and wonderful seeming people you will meet. So when you say things differently people don't want to hear. Of course if you believe someone is in danger or being taken advantage of or abused then it is ok to step in and help and be a good friend but focus on them not on what is seemingly causing them pain. Mostly though you are now part of a group of people that know what this person is really capable of and it's best to protect yourself.

Again, glad you found us and Welcome!

Latchkey

[pushit]

Welcome to the best site to hear from others going through the same thing!  You may feel alone, but you're not.  I'm certainly no expert, but I'll share my thoughts on this. 

The negative - If you think she has a PD, don't waste your time sharing it with her.  PDs will not accept any self responsibility, she may try to convince you that you are the problem.  If you're in the FOG, it will work.  Always someone else's fault.  If you think she might tell your friends things about you, she probably already has.  If you suspect she is building an alliance against you, she's already working on it.  If you've been vilified, there isn't much you can do about it, they are very charming. 

Here's the positive - If you're close with your group of friends, they already knew you before this new girl became "besties" with the girls.  From my experience, new best friends of a PD don't last long.  I saw my exPDw burn through a lot of friends that she proclaimed were very close.  If they truly know you and are worthwhile friends they will stick by you.  Just be yourself, and let things work themselves out.  Don't feel overly responsible for explaining yourself.  If you try too hard at that, the PD may have already polluted their minds and your explanations may make you look like the unstable one.

And here's the thing - If that whole group of friends turns on you over this deal, then they were never truly your friends in the first place.  If they can be fooled by someone that is a facade, then they don't really know you.

I learned the above from a 10 year marriage with a PD that produced 3 awesome kids that I'm still trying to protect from her instability.  When I divorced her, some of my best friends disappeared and some lesser friends really towed the line.  It really changed how I view people.  You'd be surprised at the people who are truly your friends and who are not!

Cheers, Happy Thanksgiving, and good luck to you!

[kenelevn]

Thank you for the advice.
I have been thinking much of the same. Having more awareness of the full circumstances of our interactions, and somewhat of an understanding why I could never reach a consensus has really helped.

Because it is Thanksgiving, and she is home with family, same as with most of the friends group, it feels like a storm is looming. But I have been able to cut through the worry and anxiety with the confidence that I made the right decision for myself. And frankly, I feel beyond lucky that I was able to make an informed decision before things got more serious. I really sympathize with you both (pushit & Latchkey) that you are coming from marriages/kids.

I have been thinking that if I try to address the reasons, or causes for her behavior to our friends, then it is accusatory. I am not an expert, I can't officially diagnose her behavior. And wanting people to support me by suggesting she has PD feels like it comes from a place of anger and fear. If I can maintain control of my emotions and actions, then I agree, my true friends will not abandon me.

My empathetic side, and the part of me that still really cares for her is even telling me that maybe, just maybe, with more awareness, she will see it, and that can open a path for her to start shedding her burden. But I must let go of the fantasies, and instead focus on acting appropriately for the moment.

It's difficult to address my feelings and reactions, without pointing fingers at her behavior, but pointing fingers is her thing.

Thanks again, and Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

[Whiteheron]

My best advice to you is just tell them "it didn't work out" or "we're not as compatible as I thought we would be." That's it. If they probe, then it's up to you how much you want to disclose. In my case, I just gave examples of typical behaviors I was experiencing. I let my friends draw their own conclusions about his behaviors.

Let her make her accusations. Take the high road and stick to your "bland" non-inflammatory response. Her behavior will out her true nature to your shared friends.

In my experience, awareness does not help a potential PD see their behaviors are harmful. They know (in the case of my stbx) and they don't care.

Good luck to you!

[kenelevn]

just tell them "it didn't work out" or "we're not as compatible as I thought we would be."

Thanks. I was talking to my closest friend in our group about it. He was offering support, and wondering if I wanted to make amens. He was also pursuing her before we started dating, so it makes it interesting. But I realized after describing to him the FOG I was in, and the circular conversations we would get into, that keeping it simple like this is best.

I tend to over-explain, and get lost in details, which of course was infuriating to someone that wants to constantly interrupt to bring the conversation back to themselves. So just leaving it at "we were dysfunctional together" feels like a nice easy way to basically dismiss the question as it comes.

[pushit]

I tend to over-explain

This is something I suggest you think about, because this is part of your personality that makes you a target for a PD.

I was that way for a loooong time.  After going through my experience with my exPDw, I discovered that over-explaining everything I did and trying to justify my actions just made me look weak and insecure to other people.  The thing is, you don't need to justify yourself to others.  It's okay to say "I did that because I WANTED TO".  I'm still working on it myself, but now when people question how I do something I simply say "that's the way I want to do it" and they don't say much after that.  It's okay to have your own preferences - they don't have to align with how other people see things, and you don't need to explain why you see it your way.

Another thing I'll throw out there - In the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" the author talks about phrasing with the word "want" vs. "need".  In my past I would get caught up with arguing about how something "needs" to be this way when it was really my own preference.  If you rephrase that to "I want it to be this way" it is much more effective.  It's a great book, I suggest reading it.

The end goal is to become someone that is not a target for a PD anymore, so you have to look inward and fix some things.  You sound very much like an empathetic person, which is what I am, which makes us both targets for PDs.  It's a great quality to have, but it makes you susceptible to getting into another one of these relationships in the future.  Hopefully you can become more aware of your own traits that make you susceptible to PDs, and be able to identify a PD when you see one, and thus avoid the same type of relationship in the future.  It's really about recognizing what you deserve from a relationship and not settling for less.

[kenelevn]

I tend to over-explain

This is something I suggest you think about, because this is part of your personality that makes you a target for a PD.

.......

"No More Mr. Nice Guy" It's a great book, I suggest reading it.

Thank you pushit. This is something I have been wondering lately. As I think back to past relationships, I believe there could be a pattern I did not see until now.

The 50% rule has been a good reminder, that while I felt I was always trying to be understood and helpful to resolve our conflicts, the way I was approaching them was only making them worse. And I need to evaluate my behavior just as much as trying to understand hers.

I will certainly read "No More Mr. Nice Guy," I have always been very serving in my serious relationships, and as a result I believe I sacrifice my own needs. While there was not a long history between me and my now ex, it clicked together quickly. Once we made our relationship public, it escalated to fights. Now I am missing the good feelings when we were aligned, and not at odds. But I made the decision to break it off, knowing that there was no going back. It is difficult for me to remember how I felt when I believed she was being manipulative and controlling. But getting what I deserve, without those feelings, and without risking becoming codependent is the mindset I have to take.

Thank you for the advice.