Xmas is coming - part 2

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sarandro

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2019, 12:52:41 PM »
The best thing to do out of all of this is....look to you and yours.

Keep yourself out of their business...it upsets you...you do what you want to do, let them all be...try to stop thinking about what everyone else does/says and try to stop being outraged at their behaviours.

Try to stop this circular thinking (I'm telling myself this while I'm writing it!) you are going round and round with this.

We all need validation from time to time and here we can talk about most things and gain some understanding.

From all the posts on this topic, I can see that most of the replies are telling you the same.

I wish you well for the holidays and hope you can step back from this X


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Fiasco

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2019, 04:31:18 PM »
The rules of this forum  are pretty clear that youíre not supposed to start threads just for venting or as a personal diary.

Hmm. We'd have a pretty quiet forum. One discussion and out.

Actually Iíve found the forum to be quite lively and responsive. We share and learn so much from each otherís experiences and questions. Itís a nice change from our personality disordered parents/siblings/spouses, BPDm in my case, who has no interest in any topic outside herself.

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illogical

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2019, 05:38:56 PM »
...Seems all this extra discussion of brother, SIL, and dad is a distraction beyond the original question. What to do about Xmas. Somewhere in the last thread of Xmas is coming, I believe you decided you aren't having Dad to your house. Your wife doesn't want him and you don't either. That's great! Don't have him, good boundary setting by you. All this other discussion doesn't really matter then. 

I have to agree with SunnyMeadow that all of the discussion about stuff other than your dad is a distraction.

You have stated in past posts that you are afraid of your father's reactions, that you don't want to upset him.  This is the inner child in you talking.  You may be "self-sabotaging" by creating distractions that reinforce your inaction.  Sure, you don't have to face your fear, but the end result is that nothing much is going to change regarding you re-claiming your life.

Maybe work toward being more assertive here regarding the Xmas situation.  Face your fear square on.  Make your decision based on what is right-- protecting you and your family from your abusive dad-- rather than what is easy-- i.e., going along to get along with your dad. 

Part of being assertive is being clear what is reasonable and acceptable to you, and taking responsibility for your choice (and your right) to not have your dad over for Xmas.

So my advice is to--

*Stick to your decision not to have your dad over at Xmas.

*Repeat your boundary as many times as it takes, and if your dad still refuses to acknowledge it, or plays the victim, end the discussion with "I've made my decision and I have nothing more to say about it."

*Work toward telling your dad that "It's not going to work you coming over this Christmas" (Period!) rather than "I can't manage it this year because my wife if working."  Maybe you can't do that with the Xmas situation, since you've already put out there your wife is working, but you will have many, many more opportunities to assert your boundaries.  Standing up for yourself with no apology or excuses will go a long way toward boosting your self-esteem.

*Follow through on your decision.  Don't JADE.  Don't justify, argue, defend or explain your decision to your dad or your brother/SIL.

*I know I and others have said this, but if your dad pulls out all the stops and pulls a medical emergency, let the professionals handle it and stay out of it.

The bottom line here is that you set a boundary about the betting shop and hell didn't freeze over.  Build on the confidence you acquired from that incident and use it to confront the Xmas situation head on. 

That's really all the advice I can give you, p123.  Know that we are all here to support you, and you can do this!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 06:33:58 PM by illogical »
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NumbLotus

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2019, 06:28:13 PM »
P123, have you thought about various scenarios that may happen on or right before Christmas and your plan to deal with them if (WHEN) they come up?

It will be hard to come up with a plan cold when it's Christmas morning and you get a call from the hospital, or your father reports he smells leaking gas, or whatever. You'll want to draw your lines out ahead of time as much as possible.

Will you take your phone off the hook/shut it off for the day? Block your father and brother's calls for the day? Are you emotionally prepared for a call from the hospital, and emotionally prepared to not come to his "rescue"? And emotionally prepared to let it go and focus back on your family for the day?

Honestly, putting myself in your shoes, I think I'd be able to cope better with the phone OFF starting Christmas Eve. Sure, you'll wonder throughout the day if he called or what is going on, but you can keep reassuring yourself that he's fine, and any manipulative hijinks he may be up to are his problem and his choice - than to hear of some "emergency," and spend the day trying to be present for your family while thinking about the upsetting phone call you had and the "emergency" you said no to, and all the little and big digs at you.

Remember, whatever happens is manufactured - he has a long history backing that up. So it's his choice, he can play his game alone. You're not a bad son for not making your life all about him. He's a bad father for demanding that of you.
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Leonor

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2019, 12:24:57 AM »
And I do feel for the little boy in p123, too, who just wants a dad who loves him and feels proud of him and wants to protect him.

Perhaps part of the resistance you're feeling to all of the responses here is a way to avoid the terrific pain and anguish of the fact that you don't feel loved by your dad, and the little boy inside is just so scared that if he does let go, if he does stop the engagement and worry and arguing, then his dad will abandon him and he'll be left all alone. So the little p123 will argue, and vent, and post a lot, because at least it's ... something. It's a way of staying connected to his dad.

That is just so, so sad. I have a bunch of little boys and their father is Mr Everything to them. He is their anchor and their lighthouse, and they would be devastated and lost and panicked if he were to withdraw or attack or push them away.

The little p123 deserves, like every child deserves, the bestest dad in the whole world. It's normal for him to feel panic that his dad is cruel *and* hope that maybe, just maybe, he will change.

You can be a father now, not just to your own children, but to little p123. In fact, you can't be present fully as an adult father to your own children if little p123 is running the show. Do you have a picture of yourself when you were a little kid? Maybe around a time you were feeling scared, or disappointed. Or even when you were around the age your own children are now. What would you, as an adult, say to him? What is it he really needs to hear? What would he like his dad to say to.him? Can you say that to him? What happens inside?

That's a tough exercise and you may be surprised at the feelings that come up, so if you think you'd like to try it make sure you have lots of time and good support. But I think that might bring some true clarity and relief for you.


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p123

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2019, 06:13:56 AM »
...Seems all this extra discussion of brother, SIL, and dad is a distraction beyond the original question. What to do about Xmas. Somewhere in the last thread of Xmas is coming, I believe you decided you aren't having Dad to your house. Your wife doesn't want him and you don't either. That's great! Don't have him, good boundary setting by you. All this other discussion doesn't really matter then. 

I have to agree with SunnyMeadow that all of the discussion about stuff other than your dad is a distraction.

You have stated in past posts that you are afraid of your father's reactions, that you don't want to upset him.  This is the inner child in you talking.  You may be "self-sabotaging" by creating distractions that reinforce your inaction.  Sure, you don't have to face your fear, but the end result is that nothing much is going to change regarding you re-claiming your life.

Maybe work toward being more assertive here regarding the Xmas situation.  Face your fear square on.  Make your decision based on what is right-- protecting you and your family from your abusive dad-- rather than what is easy-- i.e., going along to get along with your dad. 

Part of being assertive is being clear what is reasonable and acceptable to you, and taking responsibility for your choice (and your right) to not have your dad over for Xmas.

So my advice is to--

*Stick to your decision not to have your dad over at Xmas.

*Repeat your boundary as many times as it takes, and if your dad still refuses to acknowledge it, or plays the victim, end the discussion with "I've made my decision and I have nothing more to say about it."

*Work toward telling your dad that "It's not going to work you coming over this Christmas" (Period!) rather than "I can't manage it this year because my wife if working."  Maybe you can't do that with the Xmas situation, since you've already put out there your wife is working, but you will have many, many more opportunities to assert your boundaries.  Standing up for yourself with no apology or excuses will go a long way toward boosting your self-esteem.

*Follow through on your decision.  Don't JADE.  Don't justify, argue, defend or explain your decision to your dad or your brother/SIL.

*I know I and others have said this, but if your dad pulls out all the stops and pulls a medical emergency, let the professionals handle it and stay out of it.

The bottom line here is that you set a boundary about the betting shop and hell didn't freeze over.  Build on the confidence you acquired from that incident and use it to confront the Xmas situation head on. 

That's really all the advice I can give you, p123.  Know that we are all here to support you, and you can do this!

Well, I'm hoping Xmas is sorted to be honest. Easier than I thought it would be. Dad even talked last night about how hes ordered "meals on wheels".

I am sort of wondering why its gone so quiet and waiting for it all to erupt. I did honestly expect it all to go off when brother found out I wasnt having Dad Xmas day but it hasn't. Hes not the sort to let things go. I'd be amazed if nothing kicks off.

BUT, I'm ignoring it all. Xmas day sorted. Let them get on with it.

A minor battle is boxing day. There is NOONE at my house that day. (OK apart from my teenager but he will be on his pc playing games and wont speak). Wife is working, daugter will be with gran down her uncles. Pointless me driving 50 miles round trip TWICE to bring him to my house and then have to cook food. POINTLESS.

I fully expect he will INSIST because, in his head, hes got to visit at least once over Xmas. I've got a local restaurant lined up. Much better option. He wont like  the idea. Not sure how far to push it? Xmas day battle one, let this go, let him come and we'll both sit on the settee and no-one else there while I cook some random meal. (It wont be xmas dinner!)

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Adrianna

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2019, 07:57:52 AM »
Boxing Day if you want to take him out to lunch thatís fine. No need to have him over. If he doesnít want to go out to lunch so be it. His choice. Like I said before, you canít give them options. You say this is what I can do and thatís it. You have a right to decide who steps foot in your home.

Previous poster referred to inner child work and itís something Iíve worked on in therapy, as well as working through the anger. Are you in therapy? If not I suggest giving it a try. Itís helped me unlock a lot of things about myself. Mainly that I was groomed to be codependent  and surprise itís not my job to fix others or make them happy EVEN IF THEY THINK IT IS. Not my job. Never was. Your dad can be upset and thatís not on you. You have fear about him getting upset and I get that because I had the same fear. Quite frankly Iím realizing now I had been terrified of my grandmother for a very long time. She controlled me through fear, fear of upsetting her, Fear of how sheíll react if I said NO.  The fear is part of the fog. Fear, obligation, guilt. 
I think youíre at a turning point here but you have to stop worrying about him being upset, and not liking your choices. He can be upset. He really can. Itís not your job to make him happy. It takes great effort to let that sink in.


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Bloomie

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2019, 12:38:22 PM »
Hi there - popping in to direct us all back to the guidelines regarding long threads and some info about venting:

"Long threads are difficult for readers to follow and will be locked at 5 pages."

Going forward for anyone who has a question about a moderating decision - such as a thread having been locked for length:

"If you have a question or concern about a moderating decision or how the board is run you can send a Personal Message to one of the Moderating & Admin Team or ask about it on our Questions Forum.  Do not use the original thread or any other forum to question or debate moderating decisions as this is a further distraction from the original thread topic." 

Guidelines found here: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=30.0

And another helpful link to a discussion around venting can be found here:
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=61523.0
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illogical

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2019, 07:41:33 PM »
...Well, I'm hoping Xmas is sorted to be honest. Easier than I thought it would be. Dad even talked last night about how hes ordered "meals on wheels".

I am sort of wondering why its gone so quiet and waiting for it all to erupt. I did honestly expect it all to go off when brother found out I wasnt having Dad Xmas day but it hasn't. Hes not the sort to let things go. I'd be amazed if nothing kicks off.

BUT, I'm ignoring it all. Xmas day sorted. Let them get on with it.

A minor battle is boxing day. There is NOONE at my house that day. (OK apart from my teenager but he will be on his pc playing games and wont speak). Wife is working, daugter will be with gran down her uncles. Pointless me driving 50 miles round trip TWICE to bring him to my house and then have to cook food. POINTLESS.

I fully expect he will INSIST because, in his head, hes got to visit at least once over Xmas. I've got a local restaurant lined up. Much better option. He wont like  the idea. Not sure how far to push it? Xmas day battle one, let this go, let him come and we'll both sit on the settee and no-one else there while I cook some random meal. (It wont be xmas dinner!)

Meals on wheels?  Really?  That's great!  Sounds like you have made some real progress here.   :yes:

I understand your need to "pick your battles" on Boxing Day.  I think picking your battles is very important with a N, because otherwise you will find yourself in constant conflict.

On the other hand, I think Adrianna has a good point about giving your dad no options.  You have offered a reasonable alternative to majorly inconveniencing yourself by hauling him to your place on Boxing Day-- take him to a restaurant nearby.  IMO, that accomplishes the goal-- spending time with your dad.  You mentioned cooking a "random meal" at home, if you brought him there.  Wouldn't it be better for both of you to go to a restaurant and you not have the bother of cooking him a meal he likely won't appreciate anyway?  I know it got to the point with my NM that it didn't matter what I did, it wasn't going to ever be good enough.

So I would follow through with your plan to take your dad to a restaurant.  It's still a hassle for you, but not near the inconvenience of driving him to your house and then back again, and cooking him a meal and sitting in silence with nothing much to say, as you attempt to "entertain" him.  That brings back so many (bad) memories of me cooking Christmas dinner for my NM, taking it to her house, serving it up on fine china, waiting on her like a galley slave, only to have her pooh-pooh my efforts-- "Too much pepper on the leek-potato soup" and "I don't really like the turkey, it's too dry!"  and "I never cared much for peppermint ice cream"  Jeez Louise.  Get me the f**k out of here.
"Applying logic to potentially illogical behaviour is to construct a house on shifting foundations.  The structure will inevitably collapse."

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2019, 01:40:13 AM »
Yay, Meals on Wheels!  8-)

I agree - stick to your guns about the restaurant on Boxing Day, and offer no options - it's either a restaurant or nothing and if he chooses nothing, you'd be best to leave and go home.   :ninja:

IME, that's the only thing that works in trying to manage any sort of relationship.  This is what I'm willing to do, period.  Take it or leave it - there are no other options and no bargains or compromises to be struck.  :yes:

If I were you - and I was once   :wave: - I'd have responses planned for all "emergencies" that crop up on Christmas - like being summoned to take him to the ER, or getting a call that he's in the ER, come now.

If summoned - tell him to call an ambulance.  If he doesn't *want* to, tell him to call an ambulance.  If he says he wants you to drive, hang up and call an ambulance FOR him.  :ninja:

If you get a call saying he's at the ER or in the hospital - stay home.  You'll only be in the way, and they'll probably be running tests, or otherwise trying to figure out what's wrong with him - or if he's faking for attention.   :roll:

If he's admitted, don't visit.  He may demand you visit - ignore him.  You're an adult - you don't have to listen to demands made by others.

Don't drive him home - he can take a cab or shuttle.  He won't want to, to save money, but tough.  You have other things you need to be doing other than saving him a couple of quid!  :wacko:

If you decide to start the New Year out right with more boundaries, like having his shopping delivered from the store near him, remember:  don't offer him a choice.  Just DO it.     :yes: :ninja:

If he doesn't open the door, they'll just take the food back to the store and probably credit the account - and he'll have nobody to blame but himself if he runs out.

If he runs out of food and calls you - after refusing a delivery - do nothing but remind him he refused delivery of groceries, so he'll have to come up with his own solution.  If he can't or won't, tell him you'll call the store and have  groceries delivered, but that's all you can do - if he refuses, or doesn't like that,  say, "Well, I really can't help you." - and hang up.  :ninja: :thumbup:

I  think that would be a fantastic boundary to start the New Year with - but only you can make it so.  :)

 :hug:

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p123

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2019, 06:09:00 PM »
Yay restuarant boxing day it is!

I'm getting good now. Told him there was no-one at my house so there was no point in me driving a 50 mile round trip. He wasn't happy I could see.

Hes moaned about the cost (I said I'm paying and anyway its £25 for three courses which is good!). He moaned then that I should invite my teenage son too.
I thought here we go, his views are legendary. Basically, had another dig for leaving him home.

Sure I've mentioned before, 16 year old son is the the ASD spectrum. Hes NOT going to come for a meal with me and his grandfather. Hes happier at home on this PC so why force him? Dad never listens and his own opinions here.

BUT, bottom line its sorted.

There's an elephant in the room though that I see hes not going to let go - its going to come "I've not see you're wife at all this this year" or "I've not been to your house this year". At the very least he'd better get used to not seeing my wife for a bit..... BUT on step at a time. We'll see when that one pops up!

Dad did try to tell me brother is away Xmas Day. Not interested in hearing it. I've got a text from November telling me his wife was in the travel agent and booking that day, so hes forgotten that lie. Latest apparently is hes driving to a friends the other side of the country (This is wales remembers - its only 200 miles from north to south) and then driving home boxing day. This is another fabrication more than likely.
But crack on with it, if he wants to lie and Dad wants to believe it then I'm stepping back. Not my circus not my monkeys....



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PeanutButter

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2019, 07:26:41 AM »
BUT, bottom line its sorted.
Dad did try to tell me brother is away Xmas Day. Not interested in hearing it. I've got a text from November telling me his wife was in the travel agent and booking that day, so hes forgotten that lie. Latest apparently is hes driving to a friends the other side of the country (This is wales remembers - its only 200 miles from north to south) and then driving home boxing day. This is another fabrication more than likely.
But crack on with it, if he wants to lie and Dad wants to believe it then I'm stepping back. Not my circus not my monkeys....
Great job! You should be proud of yourself!
Again about your brother lying to dad ime if you lie to dad too in fact you tell a lie about the same thing 'what you and wife are doing for xmas day' can you see it is probably for the same reason 'nobody wants to be with dad for xmas but nobody wants to deal with his toddler tantrum if he knew the truth'.
Imo why is it you can accept the necessity of your lies to dad (and dad believes your lies too) but you cannot accept your brother is doing the same?
 I doubt anyone on this forum will judge you or your brother harshly for lying to get out of dealing with a pd person!
 Your brother is in the same boat as you but IMO you have been 'trained' to seperate from him instead of connect with him.
 That is what alot of us experienced: our pd parents working their children against each other. Its another example dysfunctional, abusive, manipulative behavior from our pd parents.
So which one of these statements complete the sentence truthfully:
Dad doesnt have any plans for xmas day because __________?___________
1) brother lied about what he and wife are doing so they wont have to spend xmas day being miserable with him
2) p123 lied about what he and wife are doing so they wont have to spend xmas day being miserable with him
3) dad has treated his sons and their families so poorly that this xmas day he will finally reap what he has sown and neither of his sons will allow him access to themselves or their families!
IMO and IME it is #3).
Dad doesnt have plans for xmas day because he has treated his sons and their families so poorly that this xmas day he will finally and rightfully reap what he has sown and neither you or your brother will allow him access to you or your families!


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p123

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2019, 08:46:09 AM »
BUT, bottom line its sorted.
Dad did try to tell me brother is away Xmas Day. Not interested in hearing it. I've got a text from November telling me his wife was in the travel agent and booking that day, so hes forgotten that lie. Latest apparently is hes driving to a friends the other side of the country (This is wales remembers - its only 200 miles from north to south) and then driving home boxing day. This is another fabrication more than likely.
But crack on with it, if he wants to lie and Dad wants to believe it then I'm stepping back. Not my circus not my monkeys....
Great job! You should be proud of yourself!
Again about your brother lying to dad ime if you lie to dad too in fact you tell a lie about the same thing 'what you and wife are doing for xmas day' can you see it is probably for the same reason 'nobody wants to be with dad for xmas but nobody wants to deal with his toddler tantrum if he knew the truth'.
Imo why is it you can accept the necessity of your lies to dad (and dad believes your lies too) but you cannot accept your brother is doing the same?
 I doubt anyone on this forum will judge you or your brother harshly for lying to get out of dealing with a pd person!
 Your brother is in the same boat as you but IMO you have been 'trained' to seperate from him instead of connect with him.
 That is what alot of us experienced: our pd parents working their children against each other. Its another example dysfunctional, abusive, manipulative behavior from our pd parents.
So which one of these statements complete the sentence truthfully:
Dad doesnt have any plans for xmas day because __________?___________
1) brother lied about what he and wife are doing so they wont have to spend xmas day being miserable with him
2) p123 lied about what he and wife are doing so they wont have to spend xmas day being miserable with him
3) dad has treated his sons and their families so poorly that this xmas day he will finally reap what he has sown and neither of his sons will allow him access to themselves or their families!
IMO and IME it is #3).
Dad doesnt have plans for xmas day because he has treated his sons and their families so poorly that this xmas day he will finally and rightfully reap what he has sown and neither you or your brother will allow him access to you or your families!

Ha ha I'd say all three!
I know what you mean. Dad pretty much deserves all he gets to be honest. Sometimes its best not to tell him the truth.

Yes brother is in the same boat. I have no issue with brother telling Dad what he wants. Up to him. Do what you want. He texts me and says his wife cant visit Dad any more because of her own Dad. Yeh fair enough good plan, as we all do have other family. Dont need to make excuses to me.

BUT, hes lied and then dropped me in it. Leave me out of it.

The issue I had was the fbook message a few months ago telling me "heads up" he'd booked a holiday and I'd "have to have Dad over xmas day".  Then he told Dad the same that "he could go to mine". Hang on now.
Hes done it a few times with these "heads up" messages. I had one recently saying he wasn't going to Dads every Saturday anymore so I'd have to arrange it with my wife and I to take turns. No way. Again he told Dad the new arrangements.

I've had all sorts of abuse off him in the past as has my wife telling me how selfish I am. Blocked him now after he refused to leave my wife out of it. Hes got very strong views that I don't treat Dad right.  Thats what annoys me - he makes out hes perfect, drops me in it, abuses me. Leave me out of it.

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p123

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2019, 08:47:55 AM »
...Well, I'm hoping Xmas is sorted to be honest. Easier than I thought it would be. Dad even talked last night about how hes ordered "meals on wheels".

I am sort of wondering why its gone so quiet and waiting for it all to erupt. I did honestly expect it all to go off when brother found out I wasnt having Dad Xmas day but it hasn't. Hes not the sort to let things go. I'd be amazed if nothing kicks off.

BUT, I'm ignoring it all. Xmas day sorted. Let them get on with it.

A minor battle is boxing day. There is NOONE at my house that day. (OK apart from my teenager but he will be on his pc playing games and wont speak). Wife is working, daugter will be with gran down her uncles. Pointless me driving 50 miles round trip TWICE to bring him to my house and then have to cook food. POINTLESS.

I fully expect he will INSIST because, in his head, hes got to visit at least once over Xmas. I've got a local restaurant lined up. Much better option. He wont like  the idea. Not sure how far to push it? Xmas day battle one, let this go, let him come and we'll both sit on the settee and no-one else there while I cook some random meal. (It wont be xmas dinner!)

Meals on wheels?  Really?  That's great!  Sounds like you have made some real progress here.   :yes:

I understand your need to "pick your battles" on Boxing Day.  I think picking your battles is very important with a N, because otherwise you will find yourself in constant conflict.

On the other hand, I think Adrianna has a good point about giving your dad no options.  You have offered a reasonable alternative to majorly inconveniencing yourself by hauling him to your place on Boxing Day-- take him to a restaurant nearby.  IMO, that accomplishes the goal-- spending time with your dad.  You mentioned cooking a "random meal" at home, if you brought him there.  Wouldn't it be better for both of you to go to a restaurant and you not have the bother of cooking him a meal he likely won't appreciate anyway?  I know it got to the point with my NM that it didn't matter what I did, it wasn't going to ever be good enough.

So I would follow through with your plan to take your dad to a restaurant.  It's still a hassle for you, but not near the inconvenience of driving him to your house and then back again, and cooking him a meal and sitting in silence with nothing much to say, as you attempt to "entertain" him.  That brings back so many (bad) memories of me cooking Christmas dinner for my NM, taking it to her house, serving it up on fine china, waiting on her like a galley slave, only to have her pooh-pooh my efforts-- "Too much pepper on the leek-potato soup" and "I don't really like the turkey, it's too dry!"  and "I never cared much for peppermint ice cream"  Jeez Louise.  Get me the f**k out of here.

Of course. Its like a box ticking exercise with him sometimes.

1. Visited p123s home.
2. P123s wife served me dinner.
3. I went to someones house over xmas.

Just for the sake of it....

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lkdrymom

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2019, 08:49:29 AM »
Your father's insistence on coming to your house reminds me of my father. He is in assisted living in PA and I live in NJ.  When he was in better shape he would go out to dinner with us for birthdays. I would pick a place near his AL so I wouldn't have to drive so much.  Every time he would insist we should go to a restaurant in NJ not PA but he couldn't tell me why. (FYI since I was paying he did not get to choose the restaurant for someone else's birthday dinner).  I knew he just wanted to extend his time out. Did not care how much drive time or extra work  it was for me. Your father wants to be out for as long as possible. Going to your home could be hours....going to a restaurant is a finite amount of time.  Personally if he gripes as you are dropping him off I would think it would be the perfect time to tell him the truth....no one wanted to have him over because they are tired of him ruining the day.

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p123

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2019, 09:23:55 AM »
Yay, Meals on Wheels!  8-)

I agree - stick to your guns about the restaurant on Boxing Day, and offer no options - it's either a restaurant or nothing and if he chooses nothing, you'd be best to leave and go home.   :ninja:

IME, that's the only thing that works in trying to manage any sort of relationship.  This is what I'm willing to do, period.  Take it or leave it - there are no other options and no bargains or compromises to be struck.  :yes:

If I were you - and I was once   :wave: - I'd have responses planned for all "emergencies" that crop up on Christmas - like being summoned to take him to the ER, or getting a call that he's in the ER, come now.

If summoned - tell him to call an ambulance.  If he doesn't *want* to, tell him to call an ambulance.  If he says he wants you to drive, hang up and call an ambulance FOR him.  :ninja:

If you get a call saying he's at the ER or in the hospital - stay home.  You'll only be in the way, and they'll probably be running tests, or otherwise trying to figure out what's wrong with him - or if he's faking for attention.   :roll:

If he's admitted, don't visit.  He may demand you visit - ignore him.  You're an adult - you don't have to listen to demands made by others.

Don't drive him home - he can take a cab or shuttle.  He won't want to, to save money, but tough.  You have other things you need to be doing other than saving him a couple of quid!  :wacko:

If you decide to start the New Year out right with more boundaries, like having his shopping delivered from the store near him, remember:  don't offer him a choice.  Just DO it.     :yes: :ninja:

If he doesn't open the door, they'll just take the food back to the store and probably credit the account - and he'll have nobody to blame but himself if he runs out.

If he runs out of food and calls you - after refusing a delivery - do nothing but remind him he refused delivery of groceries, so he'll have to come up with his own solution.  If he can't or won't, tell him you'll call the store and have  groceries delivered, but that's all you can do - if he refuses, or doesn't like that,  say, "Well, I really can't help you." - and hang up.  :ninja: :thumbup:

I  think that would be a fantastic boundary to start the New Year with - but only you can make it so.  :)

 :hug:

Yes good idea. New year and all that!

I have an emergency plan for xmas. Pretty easy "I've had a glass of wine now so can't drive".

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illogical

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2019, 10:37:30 AM »
...There's an elephant in the room though that I see hes not going to let go - its going to come "I've not see you're wife at all this this year" or "I've not been to your house this year". At the very least he'd better get used to not seeing my wife for a bit..... BUT on step at a time. We'll see when that one pops up!

Regarding these statements-- "I've not seen your wife at all this year" or "I've not been to your house this year"-- they are passive-aggressive (PA) digs.  And also they are statements, not questions

My NM was the Queen of PA Jabs.  These statements were designed to goad me into a JADE response. 

When your dad says something like that, resist the urge to respond.  As I said, it's a statement, not a question.  The reason PA people phrase it that way, is that they are afraid of asking a direct question because they don't want a rejection.  So in your case, your dad could ask "Why hasn't your wife been to my house this year?"  but he risks you giving him a negative response, like "Because she doesn't want to take any more of your abuse."  So by saying "I've not seen your wife at all this year" he is hoping he will guilt you into saying something like "She's been busy this holiday, but maybe she can find some time after the first of the year".  I know it's a subtle difference, but by phrasing his question like a statement, he can play The Guilt Card-- pretend not to understand why your wife hasn't come to visit and look all sad and forlorn and hope The Guilt Card gets him the response he wants.

My NM loved to make these type statements around the holidays or her birthday.  If I dared to ask what she wanted for Christmas, she would say "All I want is a visit" in the most waify, orphany voice imaginable.  But she would never come out and ask me "Why don't you visit me more often?"  Because that would likely result in me saying "I visit as often as I can" and that would be the end of that.  Playing the guilt card was much more effective in trying to manipulate me into coming over more.

So my advice to you is to resist responding to any and all statements made by your dad.  If it's not a question, keep silent, and then switch the topic of conversation to something else, preferably something light and innocent-- like shopping or sports or the weather. You could offer a "Hmm" or "Well" or some other nebulous remark, but don't let him goad you into offering excuses for your wife not visiting.  He knows this is a sore spot for you-- so he wants to press you on this, hoping he will get you angry and he can offload his resentment for your boundary setting onto you.   :yes:



« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 10:42:04 AM by illogical »
"Applying logic to potentially illogical behaviour is to construct a house on shifting foundations.  The structure will inevitably collapse."

__Stewart Stafford

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p123

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2019, 11:00:47 AM »
...There's an elephant in the room though that I see hes not going to let go - its going to come "I've not see you're wife at all this this year" or "I've not been to your house this year". At the very least he'd better get used to not seeing my wife for a bit..... BUT on step at a time. We'll see when that one pops up!

Regarding these statements-- "I've not seen your wife at all this year" or "I've not been to your house this year"-- they are passive-aggressive (PA) digs.  And also they are statements, not questions

My NM was the Queen of PA Jabs.  These statements were designed to goad me into a JADE response. 

When your dad says something like that, resist the urge to respond.  As I said, it's a statement, not a question.  The reason PA people phrase it that way, is that they are afraid of asking a direct question because they don't want a rejection.  So in your case, your dad could ask "Why hasn't your wife been to my house this year?"  but he risks you giving him a negative response, like "Because she doesn't want to take any more of your abuse."  So by saying "I've not seen your wife at all this year" he is hoping he will guilt you into saying something like "She's been busy this holiday, but maybe she can find some time after the first of the year".  I know it's a subtle difference, but by phrasing his question like a statement, he can play The Guilt Card-- pretend not to understand why your wife hasn't come to visit and look all sad and forlorn and hope The Guilt Card gets him the response he wants.

My NM loved to make these type statements around the holidays or her birthday.  If I dared to ask what she wanted for Christmas, she would say "All I want is a visit" in the most waify, orphany voice imaginable.  But she would never come out and ask me "Why don't you visit me more often?"  Because that would likely result in me saying "I visit as often as I can" and that would be the end of that.  Playing the guilt card was much more effective in trying to manipulate me into coming over more.

So my advice to you is to resist responding to any and all statements made by your dad.  If it's not a question, keep silent, and then switch the topic of conversation to something else, preferably something light and innocent-- like shopping or sports or the weather. You could offer a "Hmm" or "Well" or some other nebulous remark, but don't let him goad you into offering excuses for your wife not visiting.  He knows this is a sore spot for you-- so he wants to press you on this, hoping he will get you angry and he can offload his resentment for your boundary setting onto you.   :yes:

Oh yes I know he does it all the time. Its his way of saying "this is what should happen in my head why hasn't it".

Remeber his birthday? For weeks he went on "so you're wife hasn't had time to phone me to wish me happy birthday then". Jeez it went on.

I just shrugged mostly. At the end when he realised it wasnt going to work he said "Oh well, up to her. But its OK I don't blame you". I nearly exploded to be honest - maybe I should have. It was like saying "you're wife is rude to me but its OK, I know you're not behind this!".

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p123

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2019, 11:04:42 AM »
Update: Hes admitted his cousin invited him to his house (with his grown up children) for Xmas dinner. He said no. Thats Dad all over - turn down offers then moan he never goes out.

To be honest, I don't know them that well (I know his cousin well) but I don't think they realise how lucky an escape they've had lol. He'd go this one year and then he'd expect an invite every year. Based on how he behaves I think they may have regretted starting it.

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lkdrymom

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Re: Xmas is coming - part 2
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2019, 05:06:09 PM »
Update: Hes admitted his cousin invited him to his house (with his grown up children) for Xmas dinner. He said no. Thats Dad all over - turn down offers then moan he never goes out.

To be honest, I don't know them that well (I know his cousin well) but I don't think they realise how lucky an escape they've had lol. He'd go this one year and then he'd expect an invite every year. Based on how he behaves I think they may have regretted starting it.

Validated again.  At least now when he brings up being alone on Xmas you can point out he was invited somewhere he just chose not to go.