Xmas is coming - part 2

[p123]

Update: Hes admitted his cousin invited him to his house (with his grown up children) for Xmas dinner. He said no. Thats Dad all over - turn down offers then moan he never goes out.

To be honest, I don't know them that well (I know his cousin well) but I don't think they realise how lucky an escape they've had lol. He'd go this one year and then he'd expect an invite every year. Based on how he behaves I think they may have regretted starting it.

Validated again.  At least now when he brings up being alone on Xmas you can point out he was invited somewhere he just chose not to go.

Oh yes. Happens all the time. I've noticed with EVERYONE if you offer he says no. Its got to be his idea.

Last summer I invited him out one Sunday for lunch and to watch the cricket (which he likes). He made every excuse under the sun and said no. OK up to you.
Then had a dig that he hadnt been out. He then expected me to cancel my plans to watch the cricket and visit him instead. I said NO DAD I told you I was going to the cricket and did invite you and I can't do both. So I went, he stayed home and watched the game on TV. Crazy or what?

[p123]

Well I was waiting and slower than expected it seems my dear brother has been trying to get in touch with me. I've blocked his number and on facebook so good luck with that one.

So instead he asked Dad to give me a message. Nice one that. Apparently, hes told Dad to tell me that hes disgusted that I'm leaving Dad all on his own on Xmas Day, that I should TELL my wife she needs to sort her work shifts to accommodate him. And I should do this because he told me months ago he as away over xmas (the "booked" holiday that wasn't) so I knew about this. Can't help thinking - if your so concerned about Dad why book a holiday at that time?

Not going to rise to it. His opinion. Not interested. That's the end of it. Dad is badgering now for me to contact him to "sort it all out". (Brother knew full well this would be Dads reaction!). Ignoring him for now.

As you know, I've decided, from now on I'm not justifying to anyone. He does what he wants for Dad, and I'll do the same. He has ideas I have mine. I am not interested in his excuses, reasons or opinions. Neither am I particularly interested in any sort of contact with brother to be honest.

Good idea?

[qcdlvl]

Excellent idea, I think.

[sarandro]

You know in your heart that it is...
I'm sending you some good vibes over the ether...have a stress and guilt- free holiday with those you love and who love you back XX

[nanotech]

This is the time when it's painful and it's hard not to get sucked back into the narrative. The hardest time is when they stop hinting and digging and they they begin to openly and cruelly criticise you. It's also the best time-masks slip and reveal, and you know that you are in the right path. 
The less you react, the freer you'll become.

[NumbLotus]

While I'm not at all suggesting your brother DIDN'T say these things, you also got the message from him via Dad. So I'm sure that was the gist of the message but don't forget, Dad likely slipped his own messages in there too. And Dad is the one who got brother worked up about it in the first place.

Good call on ignoring it all.

Perhaps you'll feel a switch flipped at some point, when it stops being guilt-inducing and gut-wrenching and starts becoming just plain absurd. Perhaps you'll start feeling angry about it. Because it IS absurd and they have NO right.

[lkdrymom]

Don't react.  If your father brings it up again. change the subject immediately.  Pretend like he didn't even say anything.

[nanotech]

Yes your dad could well have put a spin on it- that's a good point Numblotus has brought up.
Thank you- For me this relates to something my dad told me my brother said recently about a conversation we'd had, and which wasn't quite what happened.
Now I'm wondering which PD out of the two of them, actually put the spin on!
Lol.
Fun and games of the PD world. 
I ignored it and it fell flat anyway.
It does work, to ignore it, or give a medium chill answer then move on. It can feel a bit meh 😑 at first, because we are so used to being drawn into the drama, the circular arguments that at least give us some form of illusion of a bond, but it only feeds them their supply ( and never, EVER feeds us the so sought- after approval!). After a while of using the technique it can become quite satisfying to watch the firework sputter and go out.
They want the Big Bang of course, and will keep trying for it.
Changing the subject? Powerful. I've done this to dad a few times now. His look of incredulity wasn't lost on me. It disallows their dominance of the talk. Every time we grab the narrative from them and turn it another way we reinforce our individuality.
It holds back the bombardment of negativity and doom they enjoy so much- and it wrong foots them into a kind of shocked passivity.
At least for a while! 

[p123]

While I'm not at all suggesting your brother DIDN'T say these things, you also got the message from him via Dad. So I'm sure that was the gist of the message but don't forget, Dad likely slipped his own messages in there too. And Dad is the one who got brother worked up about it in the first place.

Good call on ignoring it all.

Perhaps you'll feel a switch flipped at some point, when it stops being guilt-inducing and gut-wrenching and starts becoming just plain absurd. Perhaps you'll start feeling angry about it. Because it IS absurd and they have NO right.

Hmmm yes didnt think of that......

I just thought Dad didn't want us arguing to be honest but I can see how he'd benefit by brother being able to get me back in line. Hes proved in the past that all hes concerned about is my fitness to serve him.

Every single time I speak to him now he asks me how my back is. It was bad a few weeks ago not so much at the moment. Its becoming obvious that his concern is only that I'm fit to drive over to him. Nothing else really. I've got to remember to keep saying "oh just the same".

[p123]

Yes your dad could well have put a spin on it- that's a good point Numblotus has brought up.
Thank you- For me this relates to something my dad told me my brother said recently about a conversation we'd had, and which wasn't quite what happened.
Now I'm wondering which PD out of the two of them, actually put the spin on!
Lol.
Fun and games of the PD world. 
I ignored it and it fell flat anyway.
It does work, to ignore it, or give a medium chill answer then move on. It can feel a bit meh 😑 at first, because we are so used to being drawn into the drama, the circular arguments that at least give us some form of illusion of a bond, but it only feeds them their supply ( and never, EVER feeds us the so sought- after approval!). After a while of using the technique it can become quite satisfying to watch the firework sputter and go out.
They want the Big Bang of course, and will keep trying for it.
Changing the subject? Powerful. I've done this to dad a few times now. His look of incredulity wasn't lost on me. It disallows their dominance of the talk. Every time we grab the narrative from them and turn it another way we reinforce our individuality.
It holds back the bombardment of negativity and doom they enjoy so much- and it wrong foots them into a kind of shocked passivity.
At least for a while!

I just really cannot be bothered to get into it all to be honest. It wears me down. It does feel good that brother can't even get hold of me now I must admit!

I just can't be dealing with the pair of them. Its like we live in different worlds if I'm honest. They've proven many times that they're values are not mine yet they both try to force me to be like them.

Yep it was good last weekend when Dad said "you're brother is really upset with you". I just shrugged and said "up to him". The look of shock was great. Then it was "so did you see the cricket the other day?"

He did also tell me how his cousin invited him for xmas dinner. Managed to mention FOUR times how his cousin had said how its not right hes on his own for xmas dinner. Cousin probably did - hes the worlds worst FM to be honest. I expect my name is mud with him now. BUT, Dad seemed to think he HAD TO mention it that many times.

Again, I completely ignored it and then when Dad said "Oh I didnt like to impose so I said I'd stay home, probably won't see a soul all day, but it is what is I guess". So I just shrugged again.....

I'm past all the guilt now which I had for years.My MIL is 80 so only a few years younger. She comes to us for xmas day.

Don't get me wrong she has her moments and can be a right PITA but shes generally OK. Compared to Dad who, makes no effort to get along with people, ignores my kids because he can't be bothered, and generally, acts like its all about him.

He had chances for 10 years - I tried to talk to him - his answer was always "well I'm old you know me if I've got something to say". He just does not get it.

I tried to think to myself the other day. If he passed away in 6 months, would I regret leaving him at home on his last Xmas day. Do you know what I honestly think I can answer NO I WOULD NOT. For the reasons above.

[Adrianna]

You've turned a corner here p123! Great progress! I can feel it in your words.

Whether or not your brother actually said that to your father or not (you never really know with the pd person since their version of history is often not what happened), the result is the same. Result being a guilt trip forced upon you which you thankfully deflected based on your new knowledge.  I think once you finally let it sink in and see it all for the manipulation that it is, it is freedom. I went through an anger stage as well first once I realized just how emotionally abused and manipulated I had been. I'm through that now and sort of just disgusted by it all.  Disgusted that people can act that way and determined to avoid these people as much as possible. I don't want the drama or negativity in my life. We deserve peace and there's no peace with the pd person honestly.

Smart to not tell your dad any of your health issues. I stated doing that too. We are only valued for what we can do for them so us being ill or injured causes great anxiety to them. Then WE have to calm THEM down about our own illness or injury which is so backwards. Better to avoid any talk of anything personal whatsoever with them.

[p123]

You've turned a corner here p123! Great progress! I can feel it in your words.

Whether or not your brother actually said that to your father or not (you never really know with the pd person since their version of history is often not what happened), the result is the same. Result being a guilt trip forced upon you which you thankfully deflected based on your new knowledge.  I think once you finally let it sink in and see it all for the manipulation that it is, it is freedom. I went through an anger stage as well first once I realized just how emotionally abused and manipulated I had been. I'm through that now and sort of just disgusted by it all.  Disgusted that people can act that way and determined to avoid these people as much as possible. I don't want the drama or negativity in my life. We deserve peace and there's no peace with the pd person honestly.

Smart to not tell your dad any of your health issues. I stated doing that too. We are only valued for what we can do for them so us being ill or injured causes great anxiety to them. Then WE have to calm THEM down about our own illness or injury which is so backwards. Better to avoid any talk of anything personal whatsoever with them.

Thanks Adrianna. Yes I don't know what was actually said. Who knows? But it seems brother is as bad as Dad.

Yeh I still get really mad (see my rants on this forum!). I'm trying not to. I'm at the stage now where I look at the two of them and think "not interested, do what you want but leave me out of it".

The health thing I finally worked out. He got a bit obsessive about asking me what the doctor said, when I'm going back, asking me every single phone call. He asks how my son is (hes ASD Aspergers and its been challenging). Makes stupid comments but I've worked out that all he really wants is a status update and to try and work out if there is any danger of my time being taken away from him because of my son.

Its not consideration for my welfare, its a vested interest in ensuring I am fit enough and have no distractions so I am able to serve him....

I've always thought if I ever split from my wife and get divorced I'm not telling him (not happening though been married 23 years). He'd be a nightmare. He'd want to know the ins and outs, make stupid innappropriate comments, and basically, it would all be about how it affects him.

[Andeza]

P123 you said "They've proven many times that they're values are not mine yet they both try to force me to be like them."

It stood out to me and I just want to reflect on it for a moment. This is one of the ways in which you are "malfunctioning" in your father's eyes. He raised you fully intending you to be the dutiful son, take care of his every need, look after him no matter the cost to your own family, because he comes first and they'll "just have to understand won't they?"

In short, the brainwashing isn't working properly anymore and he's desperately trying to get it to.

My own pd mom has said something like "wow, you really are a different person now aren't you?" but with a very negative insinuation attached, like it's bad I don't agree with her every little whim anymore. Let me point out, it's not bad, it's just natural, but the pd cannot see it that way. It's very sad. Very sad that they want to stunt our individual growth and development just to serve their purpose.

Also, good work. So glad you get a nice, peaceful day with your little family for Christmas. Enjoy it! Try not to think of your dad at all the day of, he's not earned that right to your thoughts. For that matter, can you turn off your phone that day? Might not be a bad idea.

[lkdrymom]

I think you just took a big step in the right direction.  You finally reached the "I don't care what they think" stage.

[WomanInterrupted]

I think you've taken a huge step in the right direction!   

There's no way to tell if your brother actually said what your father said he said, and even if he did - so what?  It changes nothing.  If your brother is that damned concerned, he can cancel his holiday and invite your dad over.

Your father has refused another offer, and it's not up to you to fill the void.  Just because he *expects* it, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

You're definitely malfunctioning and neither of them like it.  They want the status quo, where you are responsible for your dad and your brother does nothing but put a shine on the bar with the sleeves of his coat.

Those days are  over - your holidays belong to you and your FOC, and not your father telling you to sort them or they'll have other holidays, or they'll just have to understand he comes first.

That's rubbish and you know it. 

Your dad is responsible for *himself* and seeing to his own needs.  If he can't do that, he can hire others to care for him, or go into a home - but he can't expect you to put your own responsibilities aside, just because he wants you to drive 50 miles so he can save a quid or two. 

Anger and indifference are healthy emotions because they help you put order to chaos, and make saying, "No" a lot easier. 

In the last year of her life, Didi was absolutely mental to get me to install her in a hospital bed in our living room, and if not that, at least get an invite over here, so she could fake an illness and never leave.   

I'd banned her and Ray from the house for trying to get our pets sick (feeding them rancid lunch meat after I specifically told her NOT to), so that wasn't happening - but this did:

Right before Thanksgiving - she's in the hospital.  Out for Thanksgiving.  In right after for a few days. 

A few weeks later, she'd worked herself into a froth about not getting her way, so she spent several more days in the hospital, sure I'd come running. 

I hadn't for most of 2013, and I wasn't going to start so she was hospitalized right before Christmas.  Out for Christmas Eve and Day.  In again right after for a few days. 

In right before the New Year - at home for NYE and NYD.  Back in again for a few days on Jan 2.   

What did I do?

"Oh, you don't say.  Well, I'm glad you're getting care.  No, I really can't get away.  I mean, I'll see what I can do, but it's not looking good." 

I'd get the phone slammed down on me, but so what?  I didn't CARE - and no, I wasn't going to visit, invite her over, celebrate holidays with her, put a hospital bed in our living room, or any other damned fool thing except *lower contact and not get involved.*   

I did nothing while she imploded, knowing she had Ray  She also had a telephone that dialed numbers other than ours. 

If she hadn't died, I'd be NC.  There was no way to have any sort of relationship with somebody who just takes and takes and takes, and when you think they're done, they up their game and expect even MORE.

Once you get to anger and indifference, you start to see the realistic possibility of No Contact in your future - and the thought no longer worries you.  Instead, it gives you solace, knowing there will be peace and quiet after the inevitable Extinction Burst. 

If I were in your shoes, I'd block his number for all the upcoming holidays - from Christmas through New Years - and start your 2020 right by having his groceries delivered.  I'd only call to tell him to expect the delivery, and get off the phone ASAP.

He's not going to like it, but too bad.  This is as much as he gets - and he can take it or leave it. 

[p123]

P123 you said "They've proven many times that they're values are not mine yet they both try to force me to be like them."

It stood out to me and I just want to reflect on it for a moment. This is one of the ways in which you are "malfunctioning" in your father's eyes. He raised you fully intending you to be the dutiful son, take care of his every need, look after him no matter the cost to your own family, because he comes first and they'll "just have to understand won't they?"

In short, the brainwashing isn't working properly anymore and he's desperately trying to get it to.

My own pd mom has said something like "wow, you really are a different person now aren't you?" but with a very negative insinuation attached, like it's bad I don't agree with her every little whim anymore. Let me point out, it's not bad, it's just natural, but the pd cannot see it that way. It's very sad. Very sad that they want to stunt our individual growth and development just to serve their purpose.

Also, good work. So glad you get a nice, peaceful day with your little family for Christmas. Enjoy it! Try not to think of your dad at all the day of, he's not earned that right to your thoughts. For that matter, can you turn off your phone that day? Might not be a bad idea.

Thanks Adrianna.

Yes you may have seen the "brothers kids" thing a few months ago. Basically, he doesnt bother with his kids from previous partners. Social services wanted him to take custody temporarily (mother is a problem) and he said "no she'll have to go into a home because I'm too busy with work". Dad advised him to do this too.

When I found out I didn't know what to say. I just looked at the pair of them and couldn't speak. My wife wanted to take her on temporarily but in the end if was resolved and the little girl went back with her mother.

After that I've never looked at brother and dad in the same light. They're like strangers to me.

[p123]

I think you've taken a huge step in the right direction!   

There's no way to tell if your brother actually said what your father said he said, and even if he did - so what?  It changes nothing.  If your brother is that damned concerned, he can cancel his holiday and invite your dad over.

Your father has refused another offer, and it's not up to you to fill the void.  Just because he *expects* it, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

You're definitely malfunctioning and neither of them like it.  They want the status quo, where you are responsible for your dad and your brother does nothing but put a shine on the bar with the sleeves of his coat.

Those days are  over - your holidays belong to you and your FOC, and not your father telling you to sort them or they'll have other holidays, or they'll just have to understand he comes first.

That's rubbish and you know it. 

Your dad is responsible for *himself* and seeing to his own needs.  If he can't do that, he can hire others to care for him, or go into a home - but he can't expect you to put your own responsibilities aside, just because he wants you to drive 50 miles so he can save a quid or two. 

Anger and indifference are healthy emotions because they help you put order to chaos, and make saying, "No" a lot easier. 

In the last year of her life, Didi was absolutely mental to get me to install her in a hospital bed in our living room, and if not that, at least get an invite over here, so she could fake an illness and never leave.   

I'd banned her and Ray from the house for trying to get our pets sick (feeding them rancid lunch meat after I specifically told her NOT to), so that wasn't happening - but this did:

Right before Thanksgiving - she's in the hospital.  Out for Thanksgiving.  In right after for a few days. 

A few weeks later, she'd worked herself into a froth about not getting her way, so she spent several more days in the hospital, sure I'd come running. 

I hadn't for most of 2013, and I wasn't going to start so she was hospitalized right before Christmas.  Out for Christmas Eve and Day.  In again right after for a few days. 

In right before the New Year - at home for NYE and NYD.  Back in again for a few days on Jan 2.   

What did I do?

"Oh, you don't say.  Well, I'm glad you're getting care.  No, I really can't get away.  I mean, I'll see what I can do, but it's not looking good." 

I'd get the phone slammed down on me, but so what?  I didn't CARE - and no, I wasn't going to visit, invite her over, celebrate holidays with her, put a hospital bed in our living room, or any other damned fool thing except *lower contact and not get involved.*   

I did nothing while she imploded, knowing she had Ray  She also had a telephone that dialed numbers other than ours. 

If she hadn't died, I'd be NC.  There was no way to have any sort of relationship with somebody who just takes and takes and takes, and when you think they're done, they up their game and expect even MORE.

Once you get to anger and indifference, you start to see the realistic possibility of No Contact in your future - and the thought no longer worries you.  Instead, it gives you solace, knowing there will be peace and quiet after the inevitable Extinction Burst. 

If I were in your shoes, I'd block his number for all the upcoming holidays - from Christmas through New Years - and start your 2020 right by having his groceries delivered.  I'd only call to tell him to expect the delivery, and get off the phone ASAP.

He's not going to like it, but too bad.  This is as much as he gets - and he can take it or leave it. 

Yes. I just really CANNOT BE BOTHERED WITH ALL THE DRAMA any more......

I'm sure my brother and Dad think the same. That I've changed and that I'm selfish. Don't care at all what they think.

I never had a particularly high opinion of my brother anyway but thats nose-dived. I used to think of my Dad as such a great man but thats nosedived to rock bottom this past year as I've seen what hes capable of.

I realised the other day and its upsetting but I dont think I'd miss either of them if they weren't in my life any more.
All I can see for the future is Dad getting worse and worse, actually getting a real illness. Hes a complete nightmare when hes got a cold. Hes going to panic and expect more and more and more. Hes getting more stubborn than ever so I know hes not going to consider better living options.

I just DO NOT want to be involved in it all. I've got my own stuff to deal with.

[Adrianna]

Don't you feel lighter just knowing you are done with the drama? You don't need it, you don't want it, and you were not put on this earth to make your father happy, no matter what he or your brother think. Accept the anger when it comes and recognize it's a healthy response to recognizing you've been emotionally abused and manipulated for a long time. It was as bad as you think. It's not normal for people to treat others as servants. You aren't a bad person for putting your wife and children and YOU first.

[p123]

Don't you feel lighter just knowing you are done with the drama? You don't need it, you don't want it, and you were not put on this earth to make your father happy, no matter what he or your brother think. Accept the anger when it comes and recognize it's a healthy response to recognizing you've been emotionally abused and manipulated for a long time. It was as bad as you think. It's not normal for people to treat others as servants. You aren't a bad person for putting your wife and children and YOU first.

Yes I do. I just need to stop getting so angry at them now - just think "do what you want I dont care"

[illogical]

...You're definitely malfunctioning and neither of them like it.  They want the status quo, where you are responsible for your dad and your brother does nothing but put a shine on the bar with the sleeves of his coat.

  Well put, WI!!

p123, you know you're headed in the right direction when you get this type of reaction from them-- i.e., they are pissed that you are malfunctioning.