Xmas is coming - part 2

[NumbLotus]

Yeah what your brother did to his daughter - and your father's larticipation in that - was UNFORGIVABLE. Holy moly.

[p123]

Well the meal was done yesterday. I tried to ignore him but honestly.... He moaned from start to finish. I drew the line when he started abusing the waiter (for no reason!). He got the idea in his head that they were too slow (they werent!) so decided to have a right go. It was awful...

He pretty much didnt speak to me. He was too busy bobbing around, wondering where his food was. We had a big argument about that.

He also decided to make sure I knew how ill he was. Had to practically drag/carry him to the bathroom 10 yards away. Then he said I needed to help him go to the bathroom! No way.
He walked half a mile across a busy road this week to get his hair cut. Yet I'm dragging him 10 yards across a restaurant.....

Apart from when he decided he wanted to go hes 15 yards across the restaurant with his coat on. I hadn't even got the bill (its a slow process in the UK - I much prefer the US where the put the bill/cheque on the table). I had to call him back - he walked fine then!

Brother kept up the pretence that he was away over xmas. Went dark on facebook. Didnt help when he did a pic xmas day that was obviously in his living room. His apartment is close to the dual carriageway (freeway) - you can see into his living room. Guess what I saw on my way up Dads yesterday am? Yep he was standing there  - supposed to be 200 miles away.
Of course, I mentioned it to Dad but he pretty much ignored it. Doesn't want to believe that the Golden Child and main provider (brother) is not perfect I guess.

Will I take him again next year? Well hes proved hes going nowhere near my family with his behaviour. I guess I'll have no choice....

Once again he had a dig that he hasnt seen my wife for ages.( Yeh get used to it). Cheekily also that I dont visit as much as I do and that he really wanted to go out this weekend. (No chance, my wife was working boxing day, we're both back in work next week, shes working new years eve - this is our only weekend to ourselves with the kids).

[illogical]

Glad you got through it and you're still in one piece!

Sounds really dreadful, though.  The part of your post that got my attention was when you said your dad noted you don't visit him as much as you used to.  He's catching on to you lowering contact.  I would be prepared for more antics and shenanigans on his part to try to rope you into more visits.  I would expect a "hospital visit" is also very likely on the horizon, given that he is trying to guilt you into feeling sorry for him being "ill".

Regarding you not having a choice but to take him out again next year, well, yes you do have a choice, p123.  You can say "No, dad, it's not going to work" and offer no apologies or reasons why. 

But next Boxing Day is light-years away.  Much can happen between now and then.  My humble advice to you is to work on your current situation-- keep limiting visits.  Have a plan for how to deal with him when he ups the ante. 

I would not mention your brother to your dad.  That is going to feed into the whole "triangulation" thing your dad is trying to do with you and your brother.  He wants to pit you into a competition with each other and sit back and watch the "fun" as you two go at it.  As the GC, your brother is likely seen by your dad as not ever doing anything wrong, whereas you, the Scapegoat, are seen as not ever doing anything right.  It's futile to try to change your dad's mind on this.  With my NM, my GC brother was a saint.  It wouldn't matter if I had a decree signed by St. Michael that he was a ruthless con, he would still walk on water in NM's eyes.  So I would let that dog lie, so to speak, and not talk about your brother at all to your dad. 

Hope you had a great Christmas with your FOC! 

[Outsiderchild]

What would happen if every time he requests your help in the restroom you respond with, "This is why I think you need to be in an assisted living facility?"  And every time he heavy handedly hints at more contact you say, "Yeah.  Right. Like today was so much fun?"

Would it shut him up or just send him into a rage?  Do you care which?  Would you feel better even if it did not change his behaviors in any way at all?

Of course, the easiest PD to deal with is someone else's, so feel free to ignore these ideas. 

[tob-ler-one]

Then he said I needed to help him go to the bathroom! No way.

Sorry that the day wasn't good for you. And you probably don't need to help your Dad to do that. :/

[NumbLotus]

Boxing Day sucked as much as you feared. Sorry.

But can I assume Christmas Day was a success??!! I don't see anything about "emergencies" or him blowing up your phone or anything?

[PeanutButter]

Yes i was also wondering how you did on christmas day. Did you keep up your pretense too? Good for you if you did! Im glad the going out to dinner thing is over for you now. Maybe you can do some very peaceful relaxing FOC time to ring in the new year.
You are doing great. Youve got this now. Now you just have to as someone on here always says 'wash, rinse, repeat  wash, rinse, repeat until you are ALL the way Out of the FOG and finally FREE!

[DreamingofQuiet]

It sounds like it went about as well as it was going to, p123, with your PD dad. But as others are saying, I think you've really turned a corner and there's no telling how far along you will be Out of the FOG come next holiday season.

In the meantime, it's OVER!!!! Congrats, you made it!!

-DoQ-

[nanotech]

I find that my UNPD dad is better when there's someone else there. I'm thinking, is there a friend who could come to one or two of these meals?
They usually behave when non family are around?
Waiters and the like have to 'serve' and can't be rude back, so they see them as fair game for their complaining and sarcasm.
My dad gets like that with waiters too, and he's sometimes outwardly rude about other tables 'making noise' (usually babies or children) .
Just wondering.
It honestly might be worth paying a care  assistant to moonlight for a couple of hours,  and just pose as a friend of yours ! haha.

I know how it is if my dad gets me on my own. I can be a real target.

They don't change. They don't mellow. In fact their attitude/ responses get worse as they age.  But IME they do behave more moderately in mixed ( as in blood with non -blood)!company.

Christmas Day went well for me with dad,  because there were other people around who weren't blood family.

[p123]

Glad you got through it and you're still in one piece!

Sounds really dreadful, though.  The part of your post that got my attention was when you said your dad noted you don't visit him as much as you used to.  He's catching on to you lowering contact.  I would be prepared for more antics and shenanigans on his part to try to rope you into more visits.  I would expect a "hospital visit" is also very likely on the horizon, given that he is trying to guilt you into feeling sorry for him being "ill".

Regarding you not having a choice but to take him out again next year, well, yes you do have a choice, p123.  You can say "No, dad, it's not going to work" and offer no apologies or reasons why. 

But next Boxing Day is light-years away.  Much can happen between now and then.  My humble advice to you is to work on your current situation-- keep limiting visits.  Have a plan for how to deal with him when he ups the ante. 

I would not mention your brother to your dad.  That is going to feed into the whole "triangulation" thing your dad is trying to do with you and your brother.  He wants to pit you into a competition with each other and sit back and watch the "fun" as you two go at it.  As the GC, your brother is likely seen by your dad as not ever doing anything wrong, whereas you, the Scapegoat, are seen as not ever doing anything right.  It's futile to try to change your dad's mind on this.  With my NM, my GC brother was a saint.  It wouldn't matter if I had a decree signed by St. Michael that he was a ruthless con, he would still walk on water in NM's eyes.  So I would let that dog lie, so to speak, and not talk about your brother at all to your dad. 

Hope you had a great Christmas with your FOC!

Yes fully expect more drama. Hes got a MASSIVE thing about my wife never visiting him at the moment. Why should see?

Yeh I know the brother thing. To be honest, it entertains me when I catch him out to see the look on Dads face sometimes....

[p123]

Thanks all. Yes Xmas day was GREAT. No sign of him......

Boxing Day meal didn't go well. Hes proved once again that he can't be trusted when out of the house. I knew it would be challenging but I'm not taking him out if hes going to be rude to people. Neither am I being fed the "Act" for the duration. He was sat there moaning, bobbing up and down, trying to call the waiter over and I said "What exactly is the rush? Are you going somewhere later?" Of course, the answer is No. So hes stops for 10 mins. Back doing the same.

Thing is he doesnt think he did anything wrong. He thinks they were slow and needed to be told.

And dont ask about the bill. I paid. He tried to grab it to "check" it, he did see it, wanted to know why it was this much? Tried to call the waiter over. OMG. It was awful. Moaned so about 5 tables heard that it was "daylight robbery". It was pretty cheap to be honest. Chain restaurant here in the uk (Harvester). £50 inc drinks for both of us.

Yes hes now set the bar for "more visits". Wanted me to visit this weekend to "take him out in the car". Jeez. I saw you Thursday and you want me there Sunday. No chance. Trying to start the new year off with what HE wants. i.e. visits every spare moment I get.

Not happening. This year I'm going lower contact. ITs going to be MAX once every two weeks now. Lump it or like it.

[p123]

And the bathroom thing was a joke.... It was 10 yards. At home he has to walk 10 yards, take his chair lift up one floor. etc etc.

Yet he leaned ALL his weight on me and pretty much had me drag him to the bathroom. When he said I'd need to help him undress for the bathroom. No way Jose....
Jeez you manage at home did u suddenly have a stroke in the last 20 mins I didnt notice.

Of course, this is all the "Look how ill I am, you need to visit me all the time" act.

[Adrianna]

Well I think by his antics you can rule out going out to restaurants too in the future. He's creating his own reality by his behavior. If he can't behave out in public, don't take him. Next year politely remind him of his when Boxing Day roles around.

You said every two weeks you'd visit but I'd suggest even less visits. Why not once a month? The more time you spend with him the more unhappy you will be. There's no rule that says you have to visit more often, or at all actually. Let that one sink in.

I'm glad Christmas was good!

[nanotech]

I know I saw dad Christmas Day and we looked after him, made a fuss and all of that jazz. He had a great time and was pretty well behaved.

Other siblings have no idea why dad isn't furious with me and refusing to speak to me.
Why?
Because I actually hadn't seen him since Fathers's day in June. We took him to a restaurant that day.

We've insisted he doesn't drive to us as he's 87 now. Massive stand off over the summer but he gave in and let us fetch him for Christmas. (Brother tried to intervene and invite himself too? See my other thread on the siblings section) 

The other siblings still 'dance the dance' for him, fawning and validating his pretend illnesses and join in with his negativity and passive -aggressive responses.

Older sis ( narcissistic) though, often angrily opposes his views ( to the extent that's she's never invited to his home now)
- but if you read' Toxic Parents ' this too is highly unhealthy.  If is just another way of 'dancing the same (toxic) dance'  back to him.
She think she's rebelling,  but she actually conforms too, by giving him valuable narcissistic supply (through conflict/ scapegoating).

Then, when she's not rebelling, she fawns too.   

Dad uses her when he needs someone to be angry on his behalf. When he goes to hospital on a whim, it's her that he gets to harass the nurses and doctors for treatment/ a bed.
She enhances the whole experience for him. He is always ever so glad to see her in the hospital. She is always ever so glad to go.
It's her most valued time and place! She becomes valued!
Effing hell no -one thinks about taxpayers money!
He tried to get me to do this once when I was at the hospital with him one time. He started  moaning about the hard chair.
There wasn't a lot wrong with him.
I told him that the room was full of people in pain, some were children.
😔
I don't fawn,  I don't rebel and I no longer point out where siblings have lied or misled him.
Nor do I remind him that some whom he never saw for years but who  are very attentive and fawning nowadays, may well be doing it for their own narcissistic and
financial gain.
I've got this forum for that. I've got my FOC  for that. I've got my therapist for that.
The narcs don't wish to hear, and what's more, they won't believe.
And what's more, the disbelief hurts.

I don't get competitive about my siblings. I don't bring them up and if he does, and it's judgmental,  I tell him not to. I never criticise them with him, nor do I praise them. If he praises them to me I tolerate that and grey rock, I give a one word answer that will suffice, then move on.
They don't concern me. Those people are separate from my relationship with my dad.
The illusion they spin is twofold

1. That we are in constant competition with our siblings. In order to be loved and appreciated, we have to strive to prove and to show that we are the better son/ daughter.

2. The more we see them and the more we do things for them, then the more they will appreciate us, and the more they will approve of us.

Number 2 is A MASSIVE MYTH.

I've cracked the top one. I've dropped the rope on the manic sibling fighting.

The second one - guess what? Dad values and respects me more since I've stepped back from reacting to his guilting about visits. I've stopped dropping everything when he says he's ill and ' needs me' .
When he tried this last I was firm but calm. I no longer get defensive with him. I don't bring siblings into it, I told him I couldn't come right now( no jading) and I didn't think he needed a hospital visit ( 4th one that week) and to  ring his GP.

And, rather than things being worse between us, they are much, MUCH better.
I'm getting some respect., even approval- not that o sought those things.
You have to be willing to lose your parent. But  I have got him to see that thing 's can't all be on his terms. And he's seen that he can still have a great time.
I love him but I do these things for my own sanity. Also I think it helps dad more than  the other siblings pandering to the self -delusion and magical thinking.


And of course, number 3
They will never change. They never give the approval sought, because that would mean that the fame would be over and their supply would dry up!

Ps I meant to write that the GAME would be over, but yep it's the spotlight they love so perhaps it's fame too that they don't want to lose!!

[NumbLotus]

His dad was hoping to foil the restaurant idea... because he wanted to be at p123's house.

I guess next time they can just hang at dad's flat and not go anywhere at all, maybe. P123 could grab some takeout on the way in.

[illogical]

Hi p123,

Sure sounds like with that bathroom stuff he's trying to audition you for his caregiver.  Yikes!  Glad you set him straight on that.   

[nanotech]

Yup I  think he x was trying to ' shame' you in the restaurant, so that you invite him to your home next year.
My dad's not like that and if he started that he would be in AL.
It's our job to care for them, not to do the caretaking ourselves. I know some people do, but it never seems to work out.

[illogical]

My NM tried twice to get me to assist her with her toileting habits.  Both times I was still in the FOG, but I could tell she was getting way too close for comfort!

The first time she was still living at home and I took her to a doctor's appointment.  She was walking with a walker.  She needed to go to the bathroom, so I got the key from the front desk and assisted her with opening the door to the hallway.  A short walk later, there was the bathroom-- a large affair equipped with safety "grab-bar" rails, etc.  NM wanted me to go inside with her.  I said "No.  I'll be out here.  When you finish, let me know and I'll open the door for you."  That was the end of that-- or so I thought.

About a year later, she was in an Assisted Living Facility and I went to her apartment for a visit.  She was in the bathroom when I got there.  I had a key and let myself in.  A short time later, the door to the bathroom cracks open and a roll of toilet paper comes flying out as if she had gone bowling with it.  She said "Illogical, I need you to get that toilet paper and bring it in to me."  I said "You have an extra roll right there on the shelf by the toilet.  Use that."  And I quickly shut the door.

Looking back on it, I believe NM was trying to get me to be her full-time nurse/caregiver.  The next step was going to be pressuring me into letting her move in with me, where I could take care of her 24/7.   She frequently hinted at that scenario.  It didn't happen, of course, but Geez Louise!

Run, p123, run!!!   

[tob-ler-one]

a roll of toilet paper comes flying out as if she had gone bowling with it

Andrex all over the place and a barrage of puppies comes through the door chasing after it.

Hope NYE is peaceful for you, Dad, and the whole family. 

[PeanutButter]

It is not an adult childs 'job' to care for their parent, unless you want it to be so you volunteer for it. Otherwise anyone who doesnt want or cant or whatever is completely off the hook imo.