BM finally broke her silent streak, but it wasn't that bad (So far)

Started by athene1399, December 13, 2019, 09:08:45 AM

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athene1399

BM's been oddly quiet the past couple of months. We just found out she has a b/f so that's probably why. But that creates a situation I'm not sure if I should discuss with SD18. BM was complaining to SO that her kids won't watch her dog for her because she's been going straight from work to her b/f's (her older two don't live with her. One lives with his dad and the other lives on his own. SD was dorming). SD had originally planned to stay with us over winter break, but after I helped her move out of her dorm, her stuff is still in my car.  She did spend the night like she promised (becasue we had plans the day after Thanksgiving that I put in a vacation day for, but surprise surprise BM had last minute things to do with family so SD didn't' come over until after I would ave gotten out of work had i gone. So she promised she'd stay last night instead), but I think BM's convinced her to stay there so she can watch the dog. Should I say something? Or just let it go? Obviously it's speculation. But also very odd that BM broke her silence to complain about not having anyone to watch her dog. 

BM had other things to say (none about the real issue with the insurance about to end lol). Apparently BM's car broke (that she just bought last year and didn't pay off yet) so she is buying another car. While she doesn't want to give the old one to SD (she couldn't even trade it in), she wants to take out another loan to buy a car for SD (maybe she wants three car payments? IDK). She started that conversation with "SD already said no, but I think it's a great idea for all of us..." SO and I think she's just trying to trick him into giving her money to pay off the first/broken car because she still owes (and claimed she isn't paying off the loan). SO shot that idea down so hopefully she dropped it for now. SD doesn't have a license and is living on campus. She also didn't want to work while in school, but will have a summer job that is close enough to walk to.  BM has been hell bent on buying SD a car for a few years now. No idea why.

The other thing, and it's minor but happens a lot, a student passed away on campus recently. BM texted SO this morning telling him how upset SD was and how it dredged up BM's  past issues and that "must have been very upsetting" for SD. SD did call me as she was walking back to her dorm last night and did talk to me about it. I wouldn't say she was very upset, but she was sad that something couldn't be done to prevent the student's death (he died by suicide). Then she never brought it up again. SO did respond to BM to say that SD didn't mention it to him and was in a good mood last night. But now I'm wondering if we should just ignore texts like this and not respond. BM often says SD is very upset about something, but when we talk to SD, we wouldn't describe her as upset or very upset. And sometimes she doesn't talk about it at all. So I don't know if SD really is super upset and isn't comfortable letting us know that or if BM is blowing it out of proportion. Or is just trying to spin it around for attention (so we shouldn't be responding at all).

Penny Lane

She definitely wants money for a car, she's a super unreliable narrator of how SD is feeling, and if I were your SO I would 100% not respond to any communications he doesn't have to. And take a very conservative view of "have to." Like, only if SD is going to the emergency room or BM asks him to take care of the insurance. You're doing fine, trust your instinct!

Of course once your SO doesn't agree to pay for her new car, she will probably freak out. Then you REALLY have grounds to just ignore her.

And, enjoy the peace that comes with a new bf! I always really look forward to those times. Our BM is practically reasonable.

athene1399

I spoke to soon, but we took your advice, Penny, and didn't respond.

I guess SD was telling BM about a rapper who died from a prescription drug overdose, BM made a joke about loving pain pills or something, and SD said something like "no wonder people think you're a pill popper." So BM sent a ranting text to SO about how she wasn't going to start anything, but proceeded to blame him for what SD said. We thought about saying something like "We never discuss you with SD" but decided no matter what we said, it would cause an argument. So we didn't respond at all. BM also wanted SO to talk to SD about not saying things like this to BM. We decided to leave that alone as well. I'm not sure if we should address that though. SD never says anything like that to SO. And maybe SD meant it as a joke. We weren't there to hear the context. Although BM also said she was going to talk to SD about it as well. I'm assuming that won't go well, but we figured telling BM that wouldn't help either. Yesterday we took SD out for a bit to give BM some space, so maybe that helped. We really don't know what else to do, especially if SD wants to stay there with BM.

And SO decided to continue dropping off food for SD. I told him I don't agree with that so am not going to help buy food for SD to stay with BM. If SD needs food, she can stay with us. Maybe he changed his mind after BM chewed him out, but I doubt it. I just know I am not going to worry about that. I told SO I felt dropping off the food just enables BM's irresponsible behavior. Like she knew SD was going to stay with her, yet didn't buy food. SD spent one overnight with us and I made sure she had snacks and food for lunch to make while we were at work. Oh well.

Stepping lightly

Hi Athene,

Wouldn't it be great if you could just respond "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" ...haha!  I know you can't, but sometimes I have to think of these responses and let myself chuckle a bit. 

athene1399

 8-) That would be awesome, SL.  She actually had this bizarre way of "proving" it was SO who must have said it to SD. I wanted to quote Spock from Star Trek and say "Your logic is flawed" lol

In reality, we don't know if SD heard it from someone or just figured it out on her own. All we know if she didn't hear it from SO or me (regardless of what BM's flawed deductive reasoning leads her to believe). Looking back, I wonder if she was trying to get SO to argue he had nothing to do with it just to start a fight. I am so glad we changed our minds and didn't say anything.

Part of why we used to respond to stuff was the judge told them they need to communicate more. I think SO feels pressure to respond for that reason. But if it's nothing important (like serious emergency room visit) or doesn't have to do with them splitting what is court ordered, then I don't think we need to respond anymore, especially becasue of SD's age (she's almost 19).

athene1399

Sorry, guys. I am extra anxious this time of year so am doubting everything I do. I have another question about not responding to BM.

So last night BM texts SO. [paraphrase] "I guess I was out of line the other day when I accused you of influencing what SD said. Thank for not responding to me."

I advised SO not to respond to that, but now I'm afraid I'm giving him wrong advice. But also, what BM said feels to me like she's trying to get him to say something specific back. Like she's trying to get him to admit she was out of line or to defend her and say she wasn't. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. I just wanted to make sure that not saying anything again is probably the best course of action. Ultimately, SO wants to never speak to her again if he can help it. Obviously, if he needs to communicate to her about SD he will, but due to SD's age (she's almost 19) I don't think anything needs to be said to BM that can't directly be resolved by talking to SD (unless we are sending BM medical receipts that she won't reimburse us for lol).

Stepping lightly

Hi Athene,

I would maintain no engagement....it seems like she wants engagement. 

I am surprised at the amount you/SO actually communicate with BM at this stage.  SD is in college, so really there should be basically no need to communicate (aside from the insurance issues of course).  My SKs are in middle school and we have almost no contact.  I literally have not spoken to BM in about 3 years, DH hasn't spoken to her face to face in that time either.  He checks/sends email at most every 2 weeks (before exchange).  I think if you do respond, it will potentially cause an avalanche of communication. 

Penny Lane

NO reason to answer that, she doesn't even ask a question and ostensibly she's thanking him for not answering her last ridiculous thing. Great, keep it going.

The underlying manipulation, though, is that she desperately wants his attention/a response. She tried wild accusations, that didn't work. Now she's trying being nice. Next she'll try something else and it'll go back and forth between awful and nice. You NEED to set the boundary that you won't engage with ANY of it, because otherwise she'll learn that she just has to keep trying strategies and eventually one will work.

Your SO doesn't want to ever talk to her again? The best way to do that is just ... never talk to her again. I know it's not that simple but also it kind of is. Don't respond to anything and voila, you're never talking to her again.

On the pill popping thing, if SD did in fact say that, I would say that sounds an awful lot like a young adult trying to grapple with her mother's real addiction and bringing it up in a way that feels "safe." Is it possible BM does have a prescription drug problem? You don't need to do anything about it but it does give some insight about what SD goes through at her mom's house.

athene1399

Thank you, SL. You have eased my mind a bit. I was thinking it's clear she does want communication. We would respond to her more in the past to keep her happy. And I think some of the had to do with the judge telling SO he needed to communicate more. But I hear that happens a lot from others on this board, and I would say in their cases that is bad advice. So maybe that goes for us too. 

98% of what BM texts SO is not necessary. So maybe if he only responds to the necessary stuff, the extra stuff will eventually go away. That's really what he wants. I feel more at ease about it knowing that you and DH don't communicate with BM. I feel BM tries to communicate with SO to get attention, so maybe if she stops getting the attention the texts will stop. Like she sends him snapshots of her FB page becasue she knows he has her blocked, but thinks he really wants to see her post so texts it to him. Stuff like that is what he gets a lot of. That he doesn't respond to. But other things he might give a one word answer or the thumbs up emoji. We'll stop that and see if her messages taper off.

PL, I was wondering it if was manipulation, but then I felt I was just being paranoid. I was probably spot on if you felt the same.  And I guess he could just never talk to her again. We've kind of been wondering if it is really that easy, and I guess if you boil it down it is. I think he's afraid she'll start raging via text again, but if we just don't respond or read it, who cares.

BM definitely use to. That's actually how SO got custody in the first place. She accused him of using and he said he'd take a drug test if she did, then next court date BM was in rehab. Last we heard from her, last spring her doctor cut her off from getting pain pills becasue she didn't check in with . She was not happy, but as far as I know she is not getting them legally. She claims she isn't taking them at all, but who knows. SO and I wondered if SD does know about it (we never mentioned it to her) becasue when SD got her wisdom teeth out, she was adamant she stayed with us. Maybe that is why. Either SD has seen BM's pill (mis)use or her older siblings told her about it.  I have talked to SD abut the dangers of prescription pain killers and she decided not to take them when she had her teeth out. Maybe she gets it more than I knew.

Stepping lightly

And on the pill popping thing, SD knows the truth and that's all that matters.  Who cares at this point what BM blames SO for, really?  She's going to blame SO whenever she can, just ignore it.  This is where not talking to BM really benefits you, because you can just say "we don't know what BM does" if SD brings anything up.  I really think you guys should go NC if you can, it'll be painful for a bit...she'll try to engage, just ignore it and it will stop or slow down exponentially.

athene1399

I think maybe BM did decide to discuss with SD the "pill popping" things she said, but we aren't sure. SD texted SO that she was sorry if BM was blowing him up and that she's not sure how lunch longer she can stay in that toxic environment. We decided we didn't want to hound SD with questions, so SO asked if she wanted to be picked up. She said that she was okay and out with friends. He then told her she can come stay with us whenever she wants and he will get her when ever she needs it. She said she was fine for now. Then I reread SD's message and noticed she was apologizing for her mom, so I texted her that she never has to apologize for anything her mom says or does and it's not her fault no matter what. That she shouldn't feel guilty over how her mom is acting. SD said she appreciated me saying that and that after being on her own she's sick of things she says being taken out of context and being accused of saying stuff she really didn't.

I think we handled it well, but SO and I really want to know why SD is staying with BM if it is so toxic. I'm thinking our best course of action is to leave it alone for now. But it is good that SD is telling us pieces of what is going on there. As you guys said, we're getting small glimpses of what SD has to deal with. That's kind of why we didn't want to hound her with questions of what was going on. We're trying to be her safe space where she can talk about things if she chooses to at her own pace. We just wish we knew why SD feels that she has to stay there if she's even admitting to us it's not a good environment.

Stepping lightly

Hi Athene,

I would totally leave it alone, it seems like she is opening up with you guys and you don't want to overwhelm her with questions.  It's hard not to know the "why", but IMO the fact that she is seeing BM's issues and being open with you guys is way more important than understanding the reasons she stays at BM's.  She may just feel like she has to take care of BM and make sure she is ok, who knows.   I think this is something that you could discuss if it comes up organically in a discussion, but not something I would ask her out of the blue.

On another note- seems like she has really grown up the last few months being away at college.  Letting her know you guys are there if she needs anything is great, and even if she doesn't call you to pick her up, I think just the idea that she can will be a big deal for her.