Making you feel unattractive

[Jsinjin]

It's hard to be in a relationship especially for decades when you have zero validation that you're attractive.  Does your PD significant other have zero interest in you physically or sexually and has been that way from the beginning?  I have always thought I must be completely unattractive to women and that all women must find men in general to be unattractive.   

If I described me for a personal ad I'd say late 40s Caucasian male, blue eyes, longer messy brown hair, strong legs, arms and back and in great shape.   I have good hygiene.   On the professional side I have a really good career at a big firm and we have the house in the suburbs with late model vehicles and no wants for food, clothing or shelter.   No first class flights but can take a vacation and go out to dinner.

But I can't even get a hug.    One time last summer I was helping her with a backpack in Colorado and my hand grazed her breast.   Joking I said, "I wasn't trying to do a boob graze I swear" and she said "that's completely inappropriate"   

I always thought that married couples would be attracted to each other intimately and emotionally.    That joke above is about as crude of humor as I would ever have and looking back on it now I was ashamed about the anger she displayed and me thinking I had been inappropriate.   I now feel angry that a nice and caring husband can't find his wife to be attractive and want to cherish her intimately.

It's been like this our whole life.  I've tried having the washboard abs, reading men's health about how to treat her and be with her and there is nothing but a cold shoulder.  In this case it's literal:   if I or one of our kids go to hug her she turns defensively and pushes her hip out and pulls her head back while pushing away with her arms.   It's like what a woman would do to a drink in a bar if some lecherous pig came to hug her but it's every time.

Put only intimate relations in 27 years have been to have children.

Is this a commonr or unvommon trait in PDs that their spouses or significant others feel unattractive because of their actions?

[SparkStillLit]

It wasn't that way in the beginning, not at all.
Now I get all the put downs about my looks. In the bedroom I feel very much used as a prop. NOT because I'm attractive, but because I'm live action.
I get told all the time about all these women who "hit on" him or make suggestive or flirtatious remarks to him.
I can't imagine, because men never do that to me, or if they are, I'm COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS.
Yet he likes to accuse me of boyfriends and make "jokes" about it. Believe ME I wouldn't have another. HELL NO. I'd love to be ALONE.
It's like pulling crocodile teeth to get affection, let alone signs of attraction out of him.
But anyway, I do feel like I must not be very attractive anymore. I was quite so when I was young, and my dd wears my face, and she is now.
It doesn't matter, because I no longer care. I keep myself decent for my own health and so I can do the stuff I like to do. Everything else can eff off.

[SparkStillLit]

Also? I think you don't have to fish and beg for scraps in a regular relationship.
With the incidental boob and butt grabs I'm usually teasing around and trying to egg my h on, but it's just a crapshoot what reaction I'll get. Sullen dead-robot no response or tease back.

[Spygirl]

This is such a terrible thing to do to another person. I am so sorry all of you have suffered this bit. You date and get all the good feelings and physical attention and then it goes away. You blame yourself, or it is insinuated that it is you. Its not. Imo, pds learn how to control another aspect of a person this way. To devalue you so you beg them for scraps of normal intimacy, and feel unworthy of it by anyone else, which also serves them. My expd used to smirk at me. I am a very passionate person and essentially was forced to celibacy within 2 years of marriage. I was frustrated for a couple years, and then just shut down. Stopped caring about my appearance, stopped trying to get physical love. This also served my expd.

He became more focused on porn and helping himself out. Classic narc. No one could love him more/better than himself! Very vain. It was literally like he had an aversion to being romantic/physical unless he was in need of something. He already had me, so no more attention. He turned his focus back to strangers, with his dowdy wife ( who was a short time ago a hot commodity) in the shadows being quiet.

Soooo, what now?

I know who i am. I am attractive enough still. I am pretty ruined for romance though. Perhaps someday, if i ever trust my judgement again. I promise you all you are attractive people! If you were not , a narc would never had zeroed in on you.  Self care in every possible way. It will help your journey back to wholeness.

[Lauren17]

jsinijn, I am so sorry to hear that you're going through this too. From my research, I'm learning that sexual difficulties are a pretty common experience with PDs, but no one ever talks about it.  Myself included.
When we were dating, uBPDh stated that he didn't like to be touched. I thought  then that didn't apply to me, but know better now. The first 15 years of my marriage, touching was for sex only.
Years ago, I tried to communicate my desire for physical affection (cuddling, holding hands). He nastily said that I had no idea what affection meant in a marriage.
Now there's no touching or sex at all. If we pass on the stairs, he will flatten himself up against a wall so we don't accidentally touch. I'm sure this is meant to hurt, so I just ignore.
Hugs?  H says that they "suck the life out of him." As I came Out of the FOG,, I realized me trying to give him a hug was providing him an opportunity to manipulate me. I was so surprised the last time he voluntarily hugged me, I wrote it down. Oct. 2017.
My heart goes out to your children. When my kids try to hug their dad, he just drops his arms to the side and holds completely still. I don't know how to intervene so I don't.
I can't imagine how hurt a person must be to turn away affection from their children. 
I'd like to applaud you for having the courage to bring up this topic. Hoping we can all find some healing.

[Jsinjin]

Yes it's probably the biggest hit of all to my self worth and image.   I wanted to be a couple for many things and I've felt that she specifically builds walls to avoid dating, intimate time, or the appearance of being a couple.    Except in social media.   She likes to appear to be next to me and part of a marriage in the many outlets on social media but that's onlyt the few second pose.

I look around and I'm actually filled with jealousy of couples who sit together whet the wife holds the husband's hand at the movies or in church.   To stay nothing of a weekend away together for romance.

In nearly 30 years I think there have been five or six times of intimacy and those were all to have the three children we have.  I began to believe that this was completely normal for a married couple.    The questions go back and forth innmy head.

[SparkStillLit]

I don't think it's normal at ALL. I used to wish I could be in a relationship where sex and affection weren't weapons. 
I still wish that sometimes, that I didn't have to get on my guard when I am suddenly offered affection out of the blue. That it was just a normal thing. And yet a little part of me is all happy when I get it, because you know.....I'M HUMAN.
Yet I hate it too, because it has horrible strings attached, all my life, so I normally will not allow it from anyone. The person that SHOULD be able to is wicked nasty with it. My "picker" is broken.
Around we go.
This is just ordinary affection.
I'm not even getting into the other stuff. Way darker.

[SparkStillLit]

Jsinjin you wonder a few things, like do all women do that (no), and is this just how things are?
I think no. This arid desert of affection and intimacy with occasional drops can't be right. I know that I am capable still of showering someone with love and affection. I guess we wonder if anyone would still want to do so for US. I would venture to say.....yes.....? But we've been strongly conditioned to believe not.
The thing for ME is, as Spygirl says, I'm ruined for any other "romance". I wouldn't trust, and I wouldn't be prepared to deal with....whatever. I read, I think somewhere on here, that while recovering, one could say "I've just come out of a damaging and disturbing relationship, and I'll need some time to heal". Something very like that. I thought, if I ever get out of this place, I'm using that.

[D.Dan]

It wasn't that way in the beginning, not at all.
In the bedroom I feel very much used as a prop. NOT because I'm attractive, but because I'm live action.
I get told all the time about all these women who "hit on" him or make suggestive or flirtatious remarks to him.

This is pretty much what my uPDex did in the end.

He was also strangely jealous of the affection I gave our kids and was implying I was having incestuous relations with them  As a victim of child molestation myself, this both horrified me and made me feel disgusting.

I had to get confirmation from other people that my behaviour towards my kids did NOT look sexual but motherly. CPS was alarmed by his comments.

[Jsinjin]

He was also strangely jealous of the affection I gave our kids and was implying I was having incestuous relations with them  As a victim of child molestation myself, this both horrified me and made me feel disgusting.

I had to get confirmation from other people that my behaviour towards my kids did NOT look sexual but motherly. CPS was alarmed by his comments.

In a different way    when I was dating her in college I never understood it but she didn't like to hold hands or be kissed in public or have any pda in case the police saw us and thought I was molesting her.   I always thought that was weird but didn't put two and two together.

[notrightinthehead]

Seems like she showed you who she is from the very beginning.

[Upstream]

Hi Jsinjin,
My UNPDstbx knew that him wanting sex could put him at my mercy, could put him in a position of neediness which might give me a power edge over him.  And since everything in our relationship went back to feeding his insatiable need for power, he couldn't allow himself to ever be caught openly trying to flirt, or somehow wanting to get a sexual response from me.  A king does not beg from his servant.  It was a tricky thing for him to initiate sex in such a way as to never respond to my advances, because he should always be in control of when we have sex, and at the same time, never appear needy when initiating.  One routine, which I think was the basis for most of our physical intimacy pattern, was wrapped up in the following scene, which actually happened:  We decide to watch a movie in the living room.  I lean over to kiss him.  He responds by pretending to fall asleep. (Note the intended Narc message .. you are so sexually unappealing, that even when you are trying to arouse me, I fall asleep)  So then, I'd back off, feeling put off, and just start watching the movie with him.  Half way through the movie, he apologizes and then shows some tidbit of affection, which would lead to the sex he actually wanted all along, but couldn't let himself be put in the role of the weaker one.  Thus, he was the magnanimous man, initiating sex in an act of benevolence to a poor needy wretch such as myself who would love to have sex with a God like him, and although it might be hard to get it all up for me, he could do it if he really tried.  Mind you, I am, like you, pretty physically fit, and within normal healthy proportions for my height.  I know it has nothing to do with my looks, and everything to do with the power play of him needing to always be in the upper position, no pun intended

Upstream

[Jsinjin]

Seems like she showed you who she is from the very beginning.

She did    so many signs   

We are Catholic and met at the Catholic student center at college.    We got married after graduating and both had jobs but had the wedding back at the college.   Before the wedding she was very specific "don't kiss me passionately because I dont like that at the wedding"   but even stranger, as a Catholic the new husband and wife then and walk to place a rose at the statue of Mary.   It wasn't a major thing but instead of turning together and walking arm in arm she simply walked off leaving me trying to catch up.

Then on our honeymoon the day after she was jn charge of a 600 person conference.   We did not make love which we had never done before getting married and I was left kind of wandering the downtown business district alone while she was in charge of the event the whole time.    We didn't hold hands, fool around and she was specific that she didn't want to appear to be a "newlywed all touch and feely" in front of anyone at the conference. 

I began to assume that women simply did not like or want intimacy and men simply hoped for it and this was normal.

[SparkStillLit]

That's not how it goes!
But can I just tell you that I got discarded ON OUR WEDDING NIGHT???? I had signs it was going to happen, too. I just couldn't believe it at the time. I mean...REALLY???
Sure, I got all hoovered and made up to the next day. You know that tongue in cheek saying though, about "this is why we can't have anything nice"? Not even a wedding night.

[NumbLotus]

The touch issues may not be about rejecting you, though of course that is how it is turning out and you have a right to desire physical affection and intimacy.

I'm just thinking that my (non PD) mom has some touch issues, though not to that degree. But she mentioned or implied to me once that it is connected to her abusive childhood when she was never cuddled and the only touch she got was being hit.

I don't know if that matters because your needs are still totally valid and the touch issues are negatively affecting you. And maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's all 100% manipulative. But maybe it does come from something more understandable, I dunno. And maybe she was able to mask the issue behind Catholic values until that was no longer relevant.

[Spygirl]

Wouldnt you think if it had been any of us with the intimacy issue, and we were made aware of how it was hurting our spouse, that WE would had seen someone about it?

Most of us found professional help to attempt to save our marriages. I am unwilling to make excuses for people who knowingly intimately reject spouses. It is thier 50%.

[Akari]

I'm sorry your wife makes you feel unattractive, marriage isn't supposed to be like that. I hope this doesn't upset anyone, I think most of us would take an accidental boob graze. 😂

Sex was amazing in the beginning. Now it's only when and how he wants it. Usually his requests for intimacy come at a time that doesn't work; either the kids are downstairs fully awake, I'm on my way out the door or he berated me the day before. I get the feeling he's aware there isn't time when he offers and that's why he does it. It than becomes my fault. If I try to kiss him he turns his cheek, snuggle up to him at night he doesn't like to be touched. He often makes comments about not getting it enough and how I was different when we started dating and women always stop wanting sex after being in a relationship for a while. I've never stopped. It's just hard when it's only on his terms. He just wants a robot that he can turn on and off whenever he wants.

[Lauren17]

Sex was amazing in the beginning. Now it's only when and how he wants it. Usually his requests for intimacy come at a time that doesn't work; either the kids are downstairs fully awake, I'm on my way out the door or he berated me the day before. I get the feeling he's aware there isn't time when he offers and that's why he does it. It than becomes my fault.

Akari, I applaud your awareness.  My H did this regularly for much of our marriage. It took me years before I realized this was manipulation on his part not "something wrong with me."  I read one article that suggested it's the PDs method of creating a self fulfilling prophecy. He's worried that she will say no. This makes him anxious/angry. He creates a situation where she is guaranteed to say no. His worry/anger is justified!

[Akari]

Lauren17, thank you.

So their angry behavior is justified, once again, while we continue our day feeling like cold, selfish women or men. Their moves are so calculated. It hurts. Mine acts so stupid sometimes, like he can't possibly be smart enough to manipulate so many minor details.

[blunk]

When things were good, my BPDxh made it a point to tell me that I was beautiful...but to such a degree that it felt fake. "You ARE beautiful", knowing that I have some skin issues that make me somewhat self conscious.

When things were bad, I was ugly, fat, disgusting, and I should kill myself.

In some ways I came to trust the bad more than the good. At least what he was saying carried emotion and sounded genuine.