THE LIST

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Flintridge

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2020, 02:57:05 PM »
I had to laugh at the "being a  weak/sickly baby/child". That's SO my mom,lol For years she would remind me over and over again what a sickly, little tiny, premature baby I was and how much she sacrificed to come to the hospital every day and see me. I think she finally got the hint after much eye rolling EVERY single time she would bring this up. Thank God she's actually stopped the past couple of years.

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pipchick

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2020, 03:47:27 PM »
Wow, these lists... I identify with you all, but I'm simulataneously so sad that you all went through it too.

I haven't written a list, but I did notice that for the girls among us, periods seem to be a thing that we suffer when it begins. I wonder if this is a common theme. When I was eleven we were given sanitary products at school. My mother took them all, and when it happened to me, I managed to hide it for a few days... then I told my Dad instead.

I just could not even begin to tell her. I don't know exactly why, even to this day, but I know that if I had told her, it would have been worse. She would have made it worse somehow.

This is troubling. Do our mothers resent the fact that we are women too?  :unsure:

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D.Dan

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2020, 05:23:03 PM »
Do our mothers resent the fact that we are women too?  :unsure:

Out of all my siblings, I'm the only one with my uPDmom's face. But I was the SG and sis was the GC.

It felt like I was my mom's doppelgänger, except instead of me being the evil twin... she was. I had come to the conclusion at age 12, that my uPDmom wanted to switch places with me and be the good twin. She wanted to be the good twin very badly.

Everything I did that proved I was me instead of her evil twin persona.... I think that is what my uPDmom resented.

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tob-ler-one

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2020, 08:14:47 PM »
I realised two things; one, that I probably didn't ever ask to talk to her about it because I just didn't want to talk to her about that stuff - and two, that she wouldn't have listened anyway. :roll:

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Brooke

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2020, 08:44:33 PM »

I think confiding such a personal (and at that age, often embarrassing) thing to a person you can't trust with your feelings is part of it.

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Gromit

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2020, 09:09:02 AM »
It wasn't red shoes, it was patent leather shoes that were disapproved of, but I only knew that when my friend got some. I wasn't allowed white shoes, because they would 'show the dirt'

When my sister was born she was wonderful, my dad said he wanted 6 more, when I was born, he said, 'no more' and wanted to throw me out of the window. This was said throughout my childhood.

When I was bullied, which was throughout school, 'you're shy' or your sister's friends said they didn't want to be her friend once. And? How is that helpful?

When I was bullied at work. Well, that is just what happens.

My mother didn't think my friend was suitable, especially after her Father left her mother for someone else.

Regular negative comparison to my older sister.

I fell downstairs and hurt myself but they didn't believe me, thought I was trying to get out of running an errand for them. I cried all the way back from the shop, it hurt so much.

Looking for a job for when I finished school, X has been offered several jobs, why haven't you? What are you doing wrong? Do you want me to come in the interview with you? Luckily she didn't.

If you don't get a job you could join the army.

Trying to leave home: don't take the first flat you look at.......then, a year later, why haven't you moved out yet? What are you doing? Do you want me to come with you?

Why are you going to university? Have you given up on men? (I went as a mature student, there were plenty of men there).

To my fiancé 'You will have trouble with her'

To me: 'you argue that black is white', 'you are too sensitive' 'I was on,y joking'

A mouse got in the house, I heard it scratching, they didn't believe me but did put poison down. They found it when they smelt the corpse and it became a story about how I brought a mouse home from school, which my mother would tell people, like my sister's boyfriends, who came to dinner.

Earrings and perms were 'common', although not when my sister had them. I have never had either.

When I had my 1st baby, we were invited for tea, my mother wanted him to stay, asleep, in his car seat. When he cried and I wanted to change him I was shown the bathroom where a chair had been placed so that I could feed him. She criticised my putting his carrycot on the floor, it would be too cold. She asked why I wasn't giving him bottles of boiled water. (I was breastfeeding, no need for water,  which is why I was supposed to feed him in the bathroom, obviously).

My OH gave me a spa treatment for birthday after the birth, 'you can't do that, you are a mother' also, 'you can't go out with friends, go shopping etc' for the same reason.

The city was without water for over a week but my parents had water where they lived. My sister was able to go there for a bath, to do washing, I got told, the road was still closed when it wasn't. When she couldn't put me off any longer my father rang to tell me that we could not go there.

When we were getting married my mother would not give an answer to the invitation, just made excuses, she had had an operation, she could not stand, sit etc, but she still could not say no. My dad got my sister to work on her and she finally agreed to come to the wedding but, days before my dad came to say she was in hospital with chest pains and she was diagnosed with angina.

And, when I did have contact with her she would regularly tell me how to do ironing, despite the fact I was ironing my uniform and clothes from the age of 11.

When my parents moved away it ws like my dad had died, she was the only person who rang, if I rang them he passed the phone to her or she answered. The only way I got to speak to him was by using the broken record, 'I want to speak to my dad' she always delighted in telling me he could call me whenever he wanted to but chose not to. Now they have found out one of their grandchildren is in hospital she was phoning my OH at home which I put a stop to as he is trying to work from home, I said they had to ring me, amazingly she lets my dad do that so I haven't had to speak to her.

Reading through the other lists is shocking but also reminds me of so much, I am sure there is more than what I have listed here. Minimising my injuries, opening my mail etc getting information out of whoever happened to ring when I was not at home.

G





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SparkStillLit

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2020, 10:38:56 AM »
I have new stuff to add.
So just quick, I got injured on the job, really bad sprain. I'm booted and on crutches and non weight bearing.  I have to see the ortho surgeon though it's not broken. I have the same healing time as broken, the damage is pretty bad.  Two days later my son shattered his arm at a crosscountry bike race. He absolutely has to see the surgeon, too. (What a family, eh???)
So my mom is bringing her auto transmission vehicle for me to drive. Mine is standard. She is also bringing blueberries so I can bake muffins for my son. My list addition is: refusing to understand that I have lost use of a weight bearing limb, and asking me if i need help, and then when i say i do, suggesting bizarre and scary ways i could help myself (and get injured worse in the process) and telling me stuff like "you just have to get creative!!" and pretty much trying to force me into carrying on like I'm not injured at all. Only my son's admittedly worse injury is of any consequence. Yes. He did break bones, badly. However, I am NON WEIGHT BEARING. I'm not, and I can't, stand in the effing kitchen and fiddle about with MUFFINS!!
Next list item: I'm always second, and in service to, males (in HER mind), even my own SON. We tease and call him King Henry because of how she is about him, it's so bad.
Like I always say, out of the frying pan and into the fire, that's me....

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MIB

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2020, 02:59:24 PM »
Well this is an interesting thread. Full disclosure, I wrote my list over a year ago as part of my recovery process, and have only shared it with my T. But now, here it is...

*Birthdays being made made to feel bad about wanting things (like cake)
*Being given the cold shoulder/open hostility for driving me to piano lessons that I didn't want to go to
*Not being allowed to use the bathroom after M cleaned it (and never told me she was going to, AND wouldn't let me use the guest washroom because she didn't want it to get dirtied up)  - who the F does that?
*Making me waste time each morning and tormenting me because my bedskirt (that I didn't want and no one saw) had to be perfect everyday
*Never knowing what I was coming home to, emotionally
*Having birthday / Christmas cards I got her crumpled or ripped up in my face (again, who the F does that do a kid??!!)
*Being choked on at least two occasions and being physically harmed/beaten on others, sometimes to the point of having to leave to protect myself (then having her tell my grandmother it was my fault)
*Being sworn at, belittled, told I was crazy, to "stop saying that" ( when I said I love you), to be told "good riddance" at night - WHO THE F DOES THAT TO A CHILD??!!
*Not being able to tell them if I was upset - my feelings are invalidated (Including when I was choked, "oh don't exaggerate, what's the big deal?"), being told she would lie if I called the police and they'd take me away
*Being told outright that I was resented for getting my MBA because it was money she could use - but never being allowed to have a job in high school and have my own independence
*Never having friends over - being made to feel isolated and weird
*Having to hide in my room or in the basement to feel safe and out of harms way
*Being tormented for going out with friends / having a boyfriend / getting married
*Being tormented for being in modelling or theatre out of jealousy - having my mother threaten to scratch my face
*Being tormented for dating DH (or anyone else for that matter)
*Always being told my decisions were bad and theirs were better
*Always being told that her behaviour was my fault when it clearly isn't
*Being constantly, CONSTANTLY emotionally dumped on when she was diagnosed with cancer and getting zero support or compassion when we went thru Dad's diagnosis - in fact, all she cared about was being angry with him about finances and tormenting him and me
*Wanting to leave the house as soon as I could because I hated being there
*Having to sew and re-sew ripped tights in high school
*Having to leave home to feel safe and peaceful so many times its hard to count (going to grandma's, staying in residence at Christmas, never coming home when I lived away, never coming home basically ever)
*Always wearing the same Halloween costume Every. Single. Year. and *not being allowed to eat the candy* (who does that??!!)
*Being given the cold shoulder/ ignored for interviewing abroad for a big promotion...WHEN I WAS UNEMPLOYED (and got no help financially or otherwise  from them)
*Being tormented and / or abandoned during the hardest / most important times in my life (Dad being sick, me losing my job, getting married, being pregnant) - WHO DOES THAT??????!!!
*Never being asked what I want or need for a gift for Christmas, birthdays, for my kids, wedding
*Being made to sit in the driver's side seat on a family driving vacation and having my defective car seat hit and kicked until she finally went to sleep, while my Dad drive beside and allowed it to happen
*Not being able to express my opinions openly - having to constantly coddle and compensate for them
*Not having close family relationships because they can't have people over or get along
*Being resented for going to grad school
*Being made fun of /criticized for my decisions, body type, who I spend time with, what I say, how I say it.

You know, it was good to review this again. I'm glad we are VVVLC.

Blessings and hugs to us all for having endured this abnormal behaviour from the two people that were supposed to be responsible for making us feel loved and safe.

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sandpiper

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2020, 06:34:59 AM »
LOL the red shoes.
Perhaps she thinks they are the same make as Dorothy's and if your W clicks her heels together twice there will be a magical puff that will spirit you both away from her....

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UpDownSideways

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2020, 11:23:40 AM »
I'm new, thought I'd post my list given how helpful and how many parallels everyone else's were. Quotes are verbatim.

I sort of can't help but find myself defining my life with my father as before/after two specific extended incidents, both when I was 15, figured I'd start with those;

- Noticing an eating disorder had made me dangerously thin, saw light headed sway; reacted by removing me from school imprisoned me in house to 'deal with this as a family'. Without warning confiscated my keys when I got back from school, only informing me when I couldn't find them and tried to leave. Left alone approx 12 hours per day while at work. Disassociated for much of the experience.
Monitored eating demanding we eat together, weighed me, squeezed bony areas to check my 'recovery process'
Sent back to school, similarly without warning. Contextual memory of school year, weather etc places duration at approx three months, during spring.
AT NO POINT TOOK ME TO THE DOCTOR.

And

- Summer break in the same year (less than a month later) informed me of a family holiday to his home country for four weeks. The first and only visit. Family home is a compound in city suburbs with high walls and electric gate.
Functioned via displacement focus (keeping hold of my passport and ticket at all times) and factual knowledge (return plane ticket, his commitments in London) indicating at least he seemed planning to fly back. Rather than be driven insane by the genuinely held fear I might not be returning home and inability to do anything about it.


Aaaand the rest of my list, interspersed with fatherly claims of how he'll always care for me, that 'I will always be his daughter' and 'I can always count on him', we have;

- Nonspecific condescension and dissatisfaction, broadly seemed to be connected by my gender led to me ask at approx. 14-15 in semi-rhetorical exasperation and disbelief
Me: God dad, did you want a boy or something?!
Him: turns from desk 'Yes, actually' looong pause, eye contact 'Your mother miscarried a/my son before you'
Then without another word turns back to desk, dismissing me. Refused to speak of it ever again.

- Explicitly stating 'I am a reflection of him. Bad behaviour and impropriety reflect badly upon him. When someone looks at or sees me, they see him and think of him' continued to do so until I moved out.

- Refers to me as a 'financial investment'. Has sent me 'how much I have cost him' - to the penny.

- Denigrated enjoyment of 'feminine subjects' at school and beyond, dismissal of interest in art and literature as 'impractical and irrelevant'.
Initial failure to achieve as high in STEM subjects as in these framed as 'only being capable of soft subjects', raising those grades to match went openly ignored.
Me: I tried my best...
Him: Demonstrably your best is not good enough

- 'I didn't send you to school to make friends'

- Unilateral expectation of high academic achievement, oblique threats of punishment for failure, told failure would 'reflect poorly on him as a teacher'.

- Achievement of solid As and a single B at pre-university (A-Levels) exams - unbearably proud, I rush home with my results reaction is sneering anger  'You got a B?'. Pride efficiently punctured.

- Frustration and inability to accept a tomboy - onset of puberty accompanied by pressure to dress and act accordingly 'Since you're a girl you should look and act like one'.
His instruction 'Stop climbing six-storey scaffolding!' (the inner city version of climbing trees, evidently) was definitely good advice, though - indistinguishable from every other barked instruction, I ignored it.

- Reflexive 'No' to any request with irregular unpredictable changes of mind made 'No' mean nothing to a developing kid. Criticism and anger at disobedience, sneering dismissal to obedience made rules/reasoning similarly irrelevant to a developing kid - only whether I was caught. Only as an adult am fully aware how unbelievably dangerous a lesson that is to teach a kid...

- Confusing presumption whenever I was allowed out I was 'just out looking for a boyfriend', any display of any physical discrepancy (illness or tiredness) prompted 'You're not pregnant like those other stupid girls, are you?'

- Refusal to consider allowing a sleepover at a friend's house until I was 17;
Me: Can I go to a sleepover X is planning?
Him: No - where did you learn that?
Me: Uh, at school.
Him: No. I didn't send you to school to make friends
Me: Wha- It's a side effect.
Him: No. I don't know these people
Me: I have her parents' number for you!
Him: No, why would I call these people? Why would you want to sleep there?
Me: My friends invited me...
Him: No. I didn't teach you that, where did you learn that?
Me AT SCHOOL.
Repeat for over an hour until I burst into frustrated tears, at which point he deploys 'See, now you've lost control - why should I even listen to anything you say?'

- Frequently opened bedroom door without warning, made it clear my bedroom was magnanimous privilege 'Giving me his roof over my head'. Privacy was met with sneering anger.

- No friend was ever been allowed to visit my house.

- Took me to open my first bank account at 13, I was very excited -  repeated punishment became opening my bag and wallet, being made to watch, confiscating the card reminding me of the trip, and I should be grateful he even allowed it. When not being punished, the card was irrelevant - lost it more than once and managed to order a new one before his next performance.

- Refusing to allow me to use the home phone without specific permission when I lived with him. Specific permission means 'No'.

-Early broadband and computer in my bedroom was only connection to friends out of school and the rest of the world (pleaded for when he replaced his own in the living room, framing it as useful for homework no extra cost, as he had planned to throw it away) disconnecting it from the router (that I set up), leaving only his own, served as a frequent punishment for 'defiance'

- Refusal to allow me a PAYG mobile phone, uncompromising resistance to me saving up and purchasing it myself, halted pocket money as a roadblock, demanded to know 'Why I even needed one', accusations I wanted to 'go and get pregnant like that other stupid girls'.
Got myself a second hand one off eBay; before it arrived I'd 'wasted my money on an internet scam', after it arrived I was 'going to lose it to a mugger' - much like the card and internet only relevance was removal as punishment.

- Active discouragement of saving pocket money and learning to manage money; 'If you still have some left, clearly you don't need any more'

- Active encouragement of financial dependence upon him;
On second day of my first weekend job at 16-ish, waitress at a local cafe - confiscates my keys not allowing me to go, or use the phone to call in. I'm absent and replaced. Justification is distrust 'I doesn't know whatever this cafe is' pleas for him to simply come and see, it is 15 minutes away by bus are met with unilateral refusal.

- Insisting that university in London meant I was living at home rather than on campus despite it being on the other side of the city, around hour's public transport away.
Refusal to entertain the possibility of me living in a shared house unless he paid my part of the rent, part time work would 'compromise my education' - uses it to leverage me visiting every Sunday, threat of 'withdrawing his support' if I refuse.

- The weekly visits extend through university waaay beyond graduation and into professional life; consisted of observations about my weight, wearing too much make-up, being too scruffily dressed, choosing an inevitable failure of career, current relationship
As visits become progressively sparser, adds accusation of cruelly neglecting him to the list - if he makes me cry £100 appears without explanation in my bank account.

- So proud of my final year dissertation he openly cited it in his PhD thesis, in adulthood so condescending he's constantly so openly taken aback that I'm not an idiot, unable to hide it, even by phone - 'huh - you know about X, do you?', 'uh huuuh, and where did you learn this from?'
 
-Most recent surprises; basic knowledge in the subject area of his current academic paper, given it heavily overlaps with the undergraduate dissertation he is oh so proud of - as such he gently introduces me to the topic with basic vocabulary definitons;
Him: I'm writing another thesis you know
Me: That's cool, what subject area are you focusing in?
Him: weary sigh 'Well, do you know what is meant when I use the word X?',
That a skilled proficiency in my chosen bloody profession was apparently unexpected with 'Oh, you're actually quite good at that'.

- Months into therapy and medication, only sought out 2-3 years after university - I decided to admit my looong term depression to him. Tearfully and hesitantly trying to get the words out, he interrupts with 'You're blaming me for this? Why don't you climb the stairs go and jump off the roof then!'

- When called on inexplicably cruel reaction closer to it occurring, is mortally offended that I would think that of him and tells me it's 'a joke I misunderstood',
More recently when reminded as an example why we have no goddamn relationship claims 'IF it happened at all, it's a joke I misunderstood. He is still hurt I think that of him' - how silly of me!

- Called once specifically to tell me 'You're not as successful as I would have hoped.' When I was unimpressed, unable to comprehend why and demanded detailed explanation of how this could be perceived as phoning me just to tell me that I suck - 'you should know that's not what I meant, I'm just worried about your future!'

- I am; ungrateful, rude, condescending, dismissive, hostile, vicious, racist, dismissive and cruel - despite his inability to give me any example of any occurrence, or why he expects this behaviour.
He; 'kept me under his roof', is 'just concerned for his daughter', has 'lost sleep worrying about me', is 'doing his duty as a father' and conveying 'truths as they occur to him'. He also 'stayed married to my mother to bring me up properly' - which is objectively hilarious, because 'properly' needs SO much therapy.

- Presumes he hasn't been on a low-info diet since he started using whatever I told him to better attack and is in any way qualified to predict my motives and principles or assess my personality. Predicts hidden meaning behind genuine attempts at verbal clarity, decides he is correct - irrespective of my actual input, inflection or words used.

- Strained lunch meetings with me him and my fiancé involve my fiancé struggling to keep his temper as my father openly conveys him more respect than me.

- Open dismissal of my arts-based freelance career at onset as 'not a job' or 'not a real job', seven years later, moderate success helping secure me financially independence it is now 'I assumed you would have found a proper job by now' and 'have you even bothered to think about your future?'

- Weekly visits pared down to not entering the house in 4+ years, lunch and phone contact only; now I am 'disinterested in him, cruelly neglecting him and my mother', in addition to previous criticisms. I point out how clearly I do not want to see him, showing no understanding beyond the entirely literal 'we've discussed this, you may see her when I am not here' - will never set foot back in that house.

- Recent years refuses to discuss her at all, aside from brief alarming descriptions of deteriorating physical health, piling guilt onto existing for the destabilising mental health I remember, the isolation of being stuck alone and dependant on him - which I will never unknow, and extrapolating years on top of both.
-Her mental health and diminishing hearing means we cannot speak on the phone. Attempts to blame her ailing health on my refusal to give into his demands to visit - when I ask if I could, unequivocally no.
-Accuses me of being devoid of caring, responds to concerned enquiry by intentionally withholding information and hostility at 'my judgemental demands he prove himself or his actions and justify his humanity' then pivots subject to his difficulty sleeping and how hard her health has been on him.

-Tells me of the death of his nephew; tense civility breaks for actual concern - I ask if he is alright, I'm here to listen if he thinks talking about it will help. He dismissses needing to, 'tells me he has sent money'
In a follow up email, I'm told I 'maliciously demanded details of his death in an intentionally cruel and racially insensitive' attack on him. When pressed refuses to explain why this is meaning is more plausible than the actual words I actually said.

-Tells me verbally by phone, then confirms by email 'He doesn't want someone like me in his life'

- Tells me 'my life is not impressive to him' staggering assumption it's intended to impress him, or he is even a factor in any way...

- Guilt of choosing my mental health over access to information about my mother's current condition cements decision to refer case to Adult Social Care, under family advisement and working theory that enquiry call will be more constructive if not a surprise and he's finished his tantrum first I send him brief notification about 'upcoming call to offer assistance' - first reaction at oversight is an invoice detailing items recently purchased to deal with current problem. Paid for = sorted.

- Then accuses me of caring even less and 'passing her care off to a convenient proxy' claiming it as an 'easy convenient decision'

- Claims she will have to be assessed elsewhere from his flat, telling me to collect her - less-politely told him how absurd an idea that is the importance of her living situation is clear, if he bothered to check the process.

- Claims 'They cannot enter his home if he does not open the door' - told he's incorrect again, this process will in fact be as hostile as he forces it to be.

- Has actually 'threatened' to move to East Africa with my mother in writing, something I'm fairly sure that would a) make him a priority case and b) make my life... simpler, at least.

- Dismisses the process as at all useful, he is 'unwilling to deal with the bureaucracy' - assumes it first started when he first heard about it.
Fundamentally keeps basing each assumption on it being about him at all, rather than bypassing him for HER.


Recent reactions are so scattershot, so I can only assume these reactions are intended to change my mind, they're only cementing my alarm - but it's impossible to tell what is actually true, prone to hyperbolic threats he's... a very confusing human.

...how am I still not entirely certain I'm not overreacting?

(Jesus, his greatest hits ended up longer than I thought it would be)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 11:30:54 AM by UpDownSideways »

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KD5FUL

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2020, 03:01:53 PM »


Telling everyone I’m a worrier
Comparison to friends/neighbours children
what would her friends/neighbours think
Monologues not conversations
Wedding expectations (our wedding)
Our choice of honeymoon
If we have difficulty with others, first question is what did we do
Lecture W on contributing to marriage
Lecture W on running a home
Terrible gift giving to us, not knowing us
Changing subject halfway through my news
Glowing reports of brother/grandchildren/time spent with them
Being the news/communication controller
Major upset when finally gently told of our hurt and discomfort due to her comments criticism opinions, how could I be so horrible
Saying we are always negative, too sensitive, fussy


These are the items that we have in common.  I would like to add:

As a child/teen:

-Weekly searches of my room for 'contraband'

-reading my diary, punishing me for what I wrote

-needing to approve my outfit choice for school

-never new clothes for me, only hand-me-downs...spent lavishly on themselves

-weird food rules: -no bananas or fruit, -can only eat at meals -must eat everything on my plate -forced to eat foods I did not like, while they laughed at me  -not allowed to open the refrigerator without permission

-never allowed to have friends over/ go to their houses

-not allowed to talk on the phone

-not allowed to use the computer

-forced to scrub like a scullery maid (way beyond normal, age appropriate chores)

-I was always accused of being sexually active when I wasn't..I was even taken to a Gynecologist at 13 and my PD parents asked the doctor to perform an exam on me and tell them if my hymen was intact.  Even the doctor was like, WTF?!

-wasn't allowed to wear nail polish or make up of ANY kind.  When I was 16, I painted my nails with glitter polish at school and PD parents made me remove it with a knife from the kitchen.  It took MONTHS for my nails to grow out

-sarcasm and eye-rolling if I mentioned something I was proud of ( a good grade on an exam) or something that I wanted to do (go to college)

-extreme and disproportionate responses and punishments if I did absolutely anything they did not like

-rules, standards, expectations were different for me than for siblings.  (always stricter and harsher for me)

-bizarre and cruel punishments (forced to repeat that I was stupid, dig holes and fill them back up,etc.)


As an adult:

-Posting incredibly personal (and objectively embarrassing) Facebook posts using my real name, public setting

-ignoring all of my achievements and milestones (university graduation x2, birthdays, marriage, birth of son, son's first birthday, holidays, new job, promotion)

-equating my achievements to sibling´s lesser achievements (saying my Master´s degree is the same as my sister´s diploma from an 18 month technical school)

-never initiating contact with me, not by phone, email, facebook....anything

-sending me gifts ONLY when I am visiting with extended family (to keep up the image of loving parents) and even those gifts are just horrible (e.g. clothing that is obviously too big, a XL when I am a XS)

-denying the past abuse when I mention it

-telling me not to bring up anything from the past, but they bring it up themselves

- accusing me of attacking them when I politely call them out on their abuse

-making me responsible for any issues or problems in the family



That's a good bit for now, but not nearly an exhaustive list


לפום צערא אגרא

A victim of abuse who suffers in silence will suffer the most.

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SparkStillLit

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2020, 11:12:51 AM »
Gosh you guys, we share these: (I don't think I posted my kid list(
Not allowed to wear makeup, scent (not even any sort of scented lotion or any kind of deodorant not approved by her).

Not allowed to cut my hair or go to a salon. She cut my fringe straight across (disaster) and the back straight across. The back was past my waist so that wasn't as bad. Ny hair is curly, though, and she always called it my "long straight beautiful hair". It's....pretty curly. She BRUSHED it. I didn't know any better, so I always looked like a witch unless i braided it or something else. My whole life in the household.

Laid out my clothes. My whole life in the household. I refused to wear what she put out, even if she put out my favorite outfit or whatever I had been planning to wear that day.

On numerous occasions busted me in the car with mascara on, on the way to school( high school). Told me it didn't look good and i looked like a stroke victim. My brother busted out at that one and told her to come off it, but she had other digs at the ready.

Would scream at me for not having a boyfriend or "any friends". For not doing "normal things" in high school.

Never attended any sporting events because I "didn't play that much, so it wasn't worth watching". Didn't want me swimming because she didn't like it. Denied me the use of the car to get to practice. I had to drop the after school practice, because I had to walk to the pool and the bus dropped me off too late to make it. I got up at 5 am to walk to the morning practice, thank stars I even could. Coach was understanding. Pool wasn't on school campus.

Didn't believe in doctors. So many occasions when I needed one I never saw one....well once I did, and she was ripped apart by said doctor for transporting me over 100 miles and changing elevation drastically when I had raging double ear infections. Said what horrible pain I must be in and how could have perforated my eardrums. But the best was my falling from a tree, being knocked unconscious *for a long time*, and then falling in and out of consciousness for a bit after that. No doctor, no ER.

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Rize

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2020, 03:25:31 PM »
These lists are heartbreaking, yet weirdly reassuring in a sense that others' have been through the same?
Anyway, here's some of mine:

*Bragging about how she shook me when I was a baby
*Constantly mentioning what a vile, horrible baby/child/teen I was
*Telling me it was my fault my dad left her
*Trying to persuade me to commit suicide with her
*Making sexual references in front of me
*Refusing to speak to me for a week after my school contacted her because I was suicidal (she was mad because of how it made her look)
*Complaining when I was out of work for a month
*...Then complaining because the job i got wasn't good enough
*Telling me I would never leave home as I cannot look after myself
*telling me if I left home, nobody would want me
*Telling me to kill myself
*Once she bought a wardrobe she couldn't put together. She had a temper tantrum and started screaming about how she was going to find a man to do it, and f*ck him as payment "even if he has aids"
*In front of guests saying how her daughter (me) "never wears knickers so she's always ready for the next man"
*Driving erratically whilst I'm in the car and threatening to drive it into a wall. Because she got lost.
*Trying to push me out of a moving car because I weren't smiling at her
*Telling me my baby will die whilst I'm pregnant
*Screaming at the doctors in hospital that she is more important than the 'fucking boyfriend' because they wouldn't let her through to the operating room when i had a c-section
*Refusing to speak/look at me or my new baby in hospital
*TELLING ME I am not to have 'anymore kids or else'
*Snooping around the house/going through bank statements/documents
*Throwing a laptop at my kid
*Breaking into my backyard and moving stuff around as a 'I've been here' thing...

God there's loads.

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Sweetbriar

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2020, 05:41:53 PM »
I feel this list will be just what I need to rescue me from the FOG.

Here goes. I believe I have an UNPDsister, UNPDfather, both of the sinister covert sort. My mother - is something. She's sort of like a female Don Cherry, if you know anything about hockey and Canada.

Mother

Why are you so fat? (every single time I visit)

Sister
-Put a note on kitchen for Alchoholics Anonymous - directed toward me when I was 15. She found out about that I had two beers at a party that weekend and gas lighted me to think I might have an alcohol addiction.
-Looked at me (I was eight years younger) when I was a pre-teen and said, "I bet you want boys to pull your pants down" (Made me sick. I hated boys at that time.)
In my 40's I took a uni class. Sister attended the function where I read a piece of my work and afterwards said, "Wow, I don't know how you did that...having to be with a bunch of 20 year olds...didn't it make you feel old???" Blank, innocent look. (I stopped taking writing classes afterward.)
-Had piece of writing make a short list in a contest, and she looks at me as she sits on her couch and appears to be very distraught when I tell her because i am really happy, and she begins to fiddle with her hands and talk about how she wishes she had something in her life she could be proud of. I spend the next hour trying to cheer her up. It doesn't work. She has a no to everything I suggest. I leave her house feeling depressed.

Father
Tells me when I'm about seven that I am the chicken in the coop the other chickens will try to peck to death.
Cyclically tells me I'm too sensitive.
Says to me, "I wish I had done a psychology degree to try to understand you."
Tells me we had a normal family because we did family vacations every year, meanwhile the inside of that car down south, inflicted enough trauma to my brain, due to the screaming, slapping and cigarette smoke, that I'm surprised I can still stand.
Used his two evil old sisters to spread lies about me - saying I was going to be admitted to hospital and was suicidal, when I told him that this past holiday season I was having it with my immediate family, because I was taking care of my mental health.
Wrote a silly book that I self-published for my son and I gave copies to my family (for fun.) I had made my father the main character - a detective - and felt quite loving about it and happy for writing something - even if it was probably bad - just the accomplishment. He didn't read it and has no idea he is the main character - or if he did read some of it, he never mentioned one word to me about. None of my family said a world about the book and I wasn't looking for false compliments. I knew it was not great literature. It was merely a gesture to my dad and my son.




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Fortuna

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Re: THE LIST
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2020, 07:12:21 PM »
Not the whole list

Getting mad with a screwed up face and leaning in like she wanted to start a fight  when she found my book about narcissists then pretending like she didn’t and saying I hope you never feel not good enough I’m so proud of you. (Twitching with the cognitive dissonance there)
•   Later bringing up the book while the kids and I were dependent on her for housing for a few days and the kids were already in bed, insisting we talk about it then dismissing everything I said.
•   Telling me ‘be careful, or make one mistake and you’ll lose your grandchildren too’ as we were getting ready to get in the car to start our life in a new state. (Was I really so naive that I thought the words were going to be, be careful and call me when you get there?) WORSE she said it right in front of DD1, then 8.
•   Consistently neglectful of kids in situations she was either asked directly or has de facto responsibility for them, leaving them on  a dock, after I expressly asked her to watch them, wandered away after riding a ride with one of them, showing no concern for the the 9 yr old by herself in an amusement park.
•   Expecting blanket immunity for accidents with the kids that hadn’t happened yet, actually said an accident isn’t my fault so I can’t be held responsible for it.
•   Expected to be able to take both children on a 750 mile car trip without asking us
•   Expected to be still be able to take DD1 on same trip after we told her we needed to come up as a family that year
•   Angry that I couldn’t answer yes to a mythical two week trip with her alone with the kids without more information.
•   Told me to “just see what kind of house I could buy in [city I was moving to]? With a big pout and arms crossed. Just venomous tone.
•   Learned about the car accident she had with DD1 in car from DD1 not my mother
•   She formed a team with my kids so psyched them up about a vacation she never asked us if they could do. (uh, no!)
•   Insisted on professional photos- didn’t include my husband
•   Dismissed legitimate parenting concerns and helicopter parenting
•   Dismissed things my kids want if she doesn’t want that
•   Devaluing the work DD1 did on learning a guitar song, saying after that she then needed to o the one from last week two without planning that ahead of time.
•   Suggesting entirely unrealistic expectations like having a kid with two weeks of self teaching on a guitar should do a Disney song next week
•   As matriarch she demands everyone go to the fourth of july at her house, but won’t provide drinks and always ropes someone else into cooking the burgers/sausages, and hides the silver if my cousin is coming, she claims he’s a sociopath, but he’s the only one that will hold a conversation with any of us for more than a minute
•   Said my grandma lives on hate
•   At my grandma’s (her MIL) funeral asked for the ring off her finger (I don’t care about jewelry and I just didn’t want a scene so I said sure. )
•   Openly told stories about how when I got tired I put myself to bed… under my crib. (As an adult this screams of neglect to me)
•   Got an autograph jacket one Christmas. I had everyone sign it, She signed it “I’m sure glad you’re not twins.”
•   Told me was jealous of me because dad loved me more.
•   Told me to stop reading ‘those magazines’ (science magazines) and I might be able to get a boyfriend.
•   Made fun of my foster sister after she got injured her throat with a needle, then took everyone out for pizza (I mean the acidity, ouch)
•   Made fun of my uncle after he got hit by a train. Had me smash up a hot wheels car for him for a christmas present.
•   After I injured myself on a pin I hadn’t realized I dropped, she walked with an exaggerated limp and looked up the sky repeating “I’m so stupid” pretending to clutch as the staircase.
•   Wanted to have my kids  SELL lemonade to the relatives at the reunion, all 5 of them  WHAT?
•   Pretending like we will be guests of honor at the 4th of july reunion but then DH has to cook the burgers and I run after the kids and don’t even get to talk to anyone because no one else moves.
•   Yelling at me when I was young, nagging at Dad, then harping at dad
•   Has weird ideas she’s said
o   It’s the cute ones you have to look out for (What did the cute one do to her?)
o   Sometimes the only reason you don’t leave in the first year of living with someone is because you’re married (when I moved in with finacee, told it would be better to know before then wouldn’t it, and what did that just say about my parents marriage?)
o   Took me to a lecture at a physics institute and told me she thought it would be better if it had less science in it.
o   Refuses to recycle because they don’t pay her to do it
o   The accumulated storage fees of the stuff my dad had kept was enough for a face lift
o   Its more important to be interesting that to have an education (guess which one I have?)
o   If you are 3 months pregnant you can still fit into your wedding dress.
•   Mom insisting the we must go to the cabin 8 states away to experience summer properly but
•   then won’t go take a short drive to the swimmable lake without the kids literally begging her to go
•   Telling me I wasn’t ALLOWED to knit while I talked to the neighbors while on vacation at her house. (Yeah, thanks I can walk and chew gum at the same time.)
•   Several times in a row telling e my shirt was too revealing (started as a regular tshirt without even collar bone showing. Went progressively more revealing till she stopped mentioning it.) Do not tell me what to wear at 40 years old!
•   Huffs when the kids aren’t paying her the attention she thinks she deserves. Refuses to skype if they have camp before because she wasn’t getting her supply (request ignored, get serious)
•   Feels that me giving back a book that contained a few names of her distant relatives was ‘stabbing her in the back and twisting the knife.’
•   Punished me to returning said book by repeatedly ‘cleaning out her office’ and asking if I wanted the stuff she was throwing out. It was only ever pictures of news clipping of me. (didn’t know it was punishment just thought it was odd at the time)
•   Got mad my in laws were going to Disney and staying at a different hotel for the weekend than us and babysitting for us because I didn’t invite her.
•   Bought meat off the back of a truck and wanted me to pay half and keep it in my chest freezer. Was flat out befuddled when I said I didn’t feel comfortable buying discount meat out of a truck. But he asked me AFTER she already bought and paid for it.
•   Always angry- she had angry wrinkled between her brows in pictures where I was only two.
•   Insisted on being an hour early to a show with my five year old then made little kid bored noises while I entertained the actual child with brain teasers. Complained out $8 tickets didn’t come with an orchestra and called the lead ballet dancer the sugar plum hippo cause she was above average in size.
•   Told me she would break all my fingers if she ever caught me smoking- I believed her.
•   Admitted more than once she doesn’t care about anyone else, only about herself
•   While watching cinderella, and the character says if you can be anything, be kind. Mom goes ‘yeah, thatll get you far in life.” Real sarcastic. In front of the kids.
•   After barely talking to me offered to go to do something with the end purpose of trapping me in her car and lecturing me that I need to talk to her for her to know what she did wrong. When I told her I feel less than supported over our move, she said sorry but it was just that she was thinking of her catastrophic loss at us moving, turning it around and making it about her and putting all responsibility for her behavior on me.
•   Called her, told me I NEVER called enough, visited her I NEVER visited enough
•   Waifed/guilted at me giving me a lecture I should visit more because she could fall down the stairs and die because “no one visits her and by no one I mean you.” All this while I WAS VISITING.
•   Dismissed my daughters activism
•   Gives gifts based on how she feels about me at the time. Either gifts she wanted (back lotioners, a magnifier (same kind she set her house on fire with)) or can’t be bothered like a thrift store set of craft supplies with have the kit missing and half of the other half are damaged, given two months after birthday because she didn’t want to pay for shipping.
•   Got huffy we were spending Easter with Catholic friends (She claims to be atheist)
•   Told me we were monopolizing the kids birthdays, that I need to prioritize her
•   My youngest started to sniffle and cry during the video chat.  My mother goes “well now we’re crying. How fun is that?” And did a big eye roll.
•   Getting kids to entertain her over video chat she has them each do a song. Then mom sings her song. It’s all about her being where she lives and how much fun she’s having in her state. And what they could be doing if they were there. Not so subtle manipulation to try to get the kids to want to go up.
•   Constantly said Oh just let me know and I can baby sit, except for every single time I asked her to babysit she wasn’t available.
•   Complained about the guy who usually put in her dock but didn’t one year, because he fell and broke his back!” I know [neighbor] is paralyzed, and that’s okay, but his dad [somewhat sickly and mid 70’s] should have stepped up and gotten the dock in.
•   Randomly brings up people to complain about. People I didn’t know, have no bearing to the conversation, and from decades before.
•   When I told her I didn’t want to hear the constant complaining about people (see above) she haughtily tells me “Well I talk about the whole truth, the good and the bad. But if you want I guess I’ll just lie more.”
•   Silent treatment after she gave me hurtful comments for a month. No hello, no goodbye, no I love you, nothing but logistical stuff.
•   More silent treatment, solid two weeks of nothing after I said we couldn’t visit over the summer.
•   Proudly proclaimed she does not have a filter so we just have to deal with what she says, because that’s who she is.
•   Tried to convince me to keep a rocker that had broken because it had sentimental value. So I asked if she wanted it back. She looked offended and said no.
•   Attempted to extract promise from us before moving close to us that we would never move away.
•   Told me “we just like to move” (as we prepared our third move in 20 years, first one out of town)
•   Tried to manipulate DD2 into wanting to go skating by telling her after she told her she’s play a game with her that she could just play with mom then and walked out and convinced DD1 to talk her into it. (One of the first times I really saw how she withheld love to get what she wanted)
•   Spanked my child without my permission
•   Constantly pulls the ‘but I’m a widow…” and asks others to do for her for free what she should probably be paying for
•   Invites herself to/on her neighbors events/boats/dinners
•   “I’m getting older and I need someone to check on me every day. I might break a hip.” bull. The woman ice skates and does Zumba classes.
•   Told me my daughters classic name was ‘too ethnic’ (after I wouldn't name her after her mother)
•   When daughters were 4 and 1 she proclaimed one would be promiscuous and the other would be food driven so we’d have to watch her weight.
•   Pulls passive aggressive statements out to get her way and guilt trip.
o   Oh I haven’t seen them in five months
o   I just don’t know what to get them I haven’t seen them in so long (6 weeks, the same six weeks she’s not see them because previously SHE was the one away, not me)
o   I need to visit longer because it’s a long flight (4hrs) and expensive ($300) but I should take my family and visit more.
•   Would ask about DD2 birthday but demand about DD1’s birthday for visits. Gave up on DD2 like she was only asking because grandma’s should ask, like she didn’t really want to go.
•   In order to be entertained during their video sessions she had them start a band, a book club, a drawing thing and so on.
•   Texted in middle of the night that she hasn’t seen the kids in 7 months. (Learned how to use the do not disturb setting on my phone)
•   When confronted with silent treatment it was because she was ‘so hurt’ but she was the one who had said hurtful things!
•   Called to ‘communicate’ how I felt about her mocking me.  first, she couldn’t remember doing anything like that. Then decided she was being ‘animated’ Said that’s the way she talks to everyone. While she did say she was sorry if she hurt my feelings. But she continued on saying that everything she seems to do I consider mocking or condescending and it hurts my feelings and I’m just too thin skinned.
•   When started skyping she had a face that read as I’m bored/can’t be bothered kind of thing after about 5 minutes with the kids but laments at having under an hour to speak with them
•   Randomly calls skype an hour to half hour early on a regular basis. I don’t answer but HUH?
•   Argues with me over simple boundaries until I have to go lawyer-ese for everything
•   Next year does not argue. Instead sees loophole and books for  more days but keeps the hours to a certain count.  Does not confirm with me before booking, though that has always been part of how we do it.
•   Tells stories of other ‘kids’ and what they do for their parents. Recently started adding why don’t you do that [name] huh, why don’t you do that? (Paying for phone plan, taking on vacation, begging them to come for Christmas
•   Telling me now she couldn’t get a new car because I needed braces in a tone that made needing braces my fault like I could control it. (She didn’t get a new car for at least 10 years after, so she never actually intended on replacing it any time soon.) Never considered how I felt getting braces.

edit: realized I might have had names in there.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 07:24:12 PM by Fortuna »