Hello

[Borntosurvive178]

Hi all. I have just joined the group, and already have found the support of just  reading others experiences very supportive.
I'm struggling a bit with understanding how to post messages etc, as a bit of a technophobe. So even this post is a bit of an experiment.
I am the youngest child of 3, growing up in the 70's and 80's of a two parent family with a uNPD M and  violent PD/depressive F.
Witnessing quite heavy duty violence over the years as well as receiving it at times, with a cold, self absorbed M was very  hard.
I am also  family scapegoat, so at times was cut off, and treated pretty badly by M &D. Also splitting by M between siblings  taught me to demonstrate a lot of anger towards GC , sadly now realising my M relished these fights with glee. A horrible thought, now I have my own adult children.
Theres been times in my life when I've felt so alone, suicide was an option  but deep down I think I've always known it wasn't my doing, and never got quite that far.
Recent 'psychological games' being  played by my elderly M have led me to seek support now. My Sis found the site, and had lightbulb moment on reading about  NPD, as it so fits.
Our M is an introvert though, with few friends and connections, which makes the fact that shes elderly and the huge guilt card a little more profound.
Hence it's hard to say no, and keep safe boundaries. I realise I'm repeatedly being 'hoovered'. But when the inevitable happens, and the next drama unfolds  years of spite, hurt and anger are brought up by M. She cannot discuss in any healthy way our trauma or abuse. I recently asked her a detonator of a question......"did you know  our D used to hurt us too, when you left us with him?" (Various abandoning times happened by both  M and D over the  years.)
She was unable to answer this. She did admit to seeing my eldest sis going through a plate glass window, when trying to stop the violence. When I responded by saying that nowadays police and  SC would use emergency protection powers to remove children. She cannot demonstrate any empathy or care for us. I know there will never be a change now. But to keep contact given  her age, or go NC is a constant battle for me.
Thanks for sharing your stories too. If nothing else, you know you're not alone in these types of issues.

[Starboard Song]

You're doing so much right. In that first post you've shown that you understand so many of the issues and contradictions. You at least understand the battle you are facing. Believe it or not, many struggle even to see clearly, for instance, the inherent guilt of dealing with the very elderly.

Welcome to our community, and thank you for sharing.

You'll be fine. It is your job to see to it that you are fine. Because so many people are going to benefit from you each month of your life, and they are all counting on you.

Be good. Be strong.

[Borntosurvive178]

Hi Starboard Song
Thank you so much for your reply. It helps immensely to just have someone say you're doing okay.
I do think having an elderly PD parent is a different and very  complex paradigm. We also have our eldest sibling living abroad, and this also evokes complex feelings,  such as 'its alright for you, you're not here' etc.
But in reality they probably did need to move that far away, when they did to be free of the abuse from my F, who has now passed away, leaving  uNPD M alone as a widow.
So the elderly and alone card can be played well, and the guilt gets us every time  really.
However she almost turns any care demonstrated into  a competition. Still tries to play one person off against another, and is just very cold and calculating. Using put-downs and double binds often to real you in. She's just so good at it!
But slowly and steadily we are providing a United front, my sister and  I. In addition as we have  adult  children, we've been  able to discuss  as a family the difficulties.
But thank you again for your  post, and I'm so pleased we found the site. I think it will be a great resource for my family and I.
All good wishes to you for the New Year.
Kind regards

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi,

Your post speaks to me.

It comes up quite a bit on these boards, that when the PD parent ages and becomes elderly, there is a guilt that comes from the societal expectation that we care for our parents as they age. This expectation is part of a belief that our parents obviously cared for us and we need to pay them back.

For adult children of PD parents we each have to decide how much contact to have. We need to protect ourselves from their abuse which can be learned and developed. If you stay in contact.

You said she is good at manipulations. Yes and it is heartbreaking to have a parent who is manipulating her children. I went through years of it before going NC. I don't miss the gaslughting and abuse at all. What I 'miss' is stuff she never did reliably and what I got was a lot of abusive behaviour our of my PD mother.

Whether you stay in contact or go NC the most important work you do will be to take good care of yourself.

The fog can be really thick in the family when the PD parent is elderly.

When you are with your PD mother you have not seen her display the empathetic response that you wanted and needed throughout your life. Many of us here understand. We understand the pain of coming to some level of acceptance that their PD is not going to ever change and that we must find others who can validate and support us as we learn to build ourselves up to feel strong. Some of us find strength in identifying as a survivor of abuse, but it is an option that you will want to explore.

How you frame your past will help you and it can help to alleviate the pain of realizing that your mother cannot take any responsibility or show empathy for the past wrongs.

A lot of us benefit from counselling to help us frame our past more clearly so that we know what it is we are working on to help ourselves with our life.

Glad you found this forum.

[Borntosurvive178]

Hi Treesgrowslowly.
Again  thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me directly. You're so right. Dealing with them as elderly people is extremely hard.
I have said to my sis, I'm going to have nc for a short while  just  to regain my self levelling.
The recent trigger for me to ask her the question as to if she was aware of the level of violence we all endured, came from her announcing that she wasn't  buying anyone Christmas presents this year, but was offering to pay for a meal for us all, to celebrate what would have been my D's 80th b.day.
Something about that, and  was a guttural feeling just reacted with me.
I expressed that I did not want to do this, and this led to a discussion about  why I didn't!
The upshot of me saying really how I was feeling, had to be negated by her, and so various  apparent indiscretions by me to her, mostly which were reactions by me to her previous gaslighting, were brought  up, and again it was I  who was in the wrong and as we've often been told over the years  had made her I'll!
As I'm sure there is in your experience also, there are simply hundreds of examples over the years of manipulation, and general bad behaviour. Sometimes and I think my sis feels the same, it simply bores me too death!
The circling of the situation, round and around, so predictable!
But we're all caught in the spiders web, and as I'm built for empathy, ended up in jobs and a career that looks after others. I'm prime for the hoovering!
Behaviour settles  for a while, a kind of normality of visiting and supporting starts again  and I'm back in the game!
After this recent issue, I think my sis was worried that she might attempt suicide. She had told my sis previously that she'd attempted suicide in earlier years. These were however designed for sympathy I think, as the methods used would never be fatal! E.g. putting your head in a bucket?
To anyone who has been brought in a normal family, I must  sound like the most uncaring person  alive. But as you  know, these games are merely part for the cause! My sis is GC, so always trying to make it all right.
The manipulation  'I might consider suicide  so you better watch out'!
Due to a lot of abandonment on top of the other stuff, I can be very ambivalent, and I think that's where I'm at at the moment!
I am good at taking care of myself, and I do genuinely like and  love myself now, which is no mean feat as family scapegoat, and takes a lot of work!
Thank you again so much for the  support. I think its helping in ways I haven't even realized. I've been sleeping better  and although writing  about her here, not really  thinking about  her during the  day very  much  at all!
All good wishes to you.

[sarandro]

Hello, Borntosurvive178...
I too am in the same position as you.
My Dad died last year and I have been NC with my NM since his funeral day (see my other posts)

It is (and has been ) very, very hard to do, but I could not cope with the nasty snide remarks to me anymore.
The manipulations...the gaslighting...the shaming and blaming etc..etc.
I thought my Bro and Sis understood why...but now I find that they want no more to do with me.
(That hurt a lot)

Finding this forum has literally saved my soul from further hurt and given me the courage and strength to maintain NC
I am sure here you will get understanding and support to help you on your journey.
XXX

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi borntosurvive,

Things I've learned that I had to learn because of the manipulations in the FOO, similar to what you are going through as well:

The more empathy we have, the more self care we require. For a lot of people, their lack of empathy is a "natural" boundary. ie they don't take in the data we do, as empathetic people. If you are empathetic as a person, as am I, you will be sought out. People won't even know why or how they affect you. Life for empathetic people is different. We must take care of our selves more than we were taught to. We mostly teach ourselves how to truly take care of our selves as our NPD parents taught us the opposite.

Turning off our empathy feels like a non starter for us when people suggest it as the "easy" solution for the relationship issues you describe. I have to teach myself new ways of understanding what it means to be empathetic and how to honour it when others won't / don't.

Getting people in our FOO to agree with us about what we experienced is crazy making in a PD run family. There is a lot of resistance to the truth in a family where a PD had / has power.

We will need boundaries with people.

Having a PD parent puts you through the school of hard knocks and people who have not been there will not understand the decisions you make.

People with fleas can and will argue with you about what you want, what you prefer, what you need. You'll never please them. They are responsible to pull themselves Out of the FOG. In a PD family I have yet to see all the adult children come Out of the FOG at once. Those of us who get Out of the FOG first, are 100% going to be told by someone else in the family that they are the problem. The fleas and NPD and dysfunctional communication patterns are not the problem, you are. for trying to get Out of the FOG and say things like "I dont want to go to that birthday party".

It takes a lot of strength to be that person. It takes a lot of strength to protect ourselves from dysfunction.

I have had to learn all this from people outside my FOO and from working with the truth by myself. I share this with you and others because without forums like this people can feel like they are the only ones trying to get away from PD abuse. Which isnt true at all. There are sadly a lot of us who have grown up with PD parents and want better for ourselves as adults.

[Borntosurvive178]

Hello, Borntosurvive178...
I too am in the same position as you.
My Dad died last year and I have been NC with my NM since his funeral day (see my other posts)

It is (and has been ) very, very hard to do, but I could not cope with the nasty snide remarks to me anymore.
The manipulations...the gaslighting...the shaming and blaming etc..etc.
I thought my Bro and Sis understood why...but now I find that they want no more to do with me.
(That hurt a lot)

Finding this forum has literally saved my soul from further hurt and given me the courage and strength to maintain NC
I am sure here you will get understanding and support to help you on your journey.
XXX

Hi Sarandro
Thank you for your post. I can only imagine the strength it must have taken for you to go nc.
I am trying to realise that she's unable to change and that I can only live my life authentically and I  don't have to play let's pretend  anymore.
I think we'll  probably keep going  around and around for a  while though!
I'm glad you're starting to make new friends through your business, and I hope you keep growing in your strength and resolve!
Happy New Year you, and stay strong!
All good wishes.