Why's he stalling?

[fish2019]

I'd spoken to my ex with NPD about meeting this weekend a while ago (he still has my stuff including something quite sentimental and I want closure on the whole situation after being discarded).

I checked earlier this week if he could still make it. He said: "Oh I might be going to away now so feel free to make other plans. Can I see you on a weekday after I've been paid?'

I was like, well these are the three dates I'm free over the next few weeks thinking he'd pick one. But instead he again just said ok, I'll let you know. I tried to joke a bit and was like it's almost like you don't want to see me. And he was like no I do, I just have a few busy weekends coming up and chores to do. 

I don't know if he just isn't interested... or he's playing a bigger game.

[eyesopen]

Although PD's don't seem to abide by logic, I'd still apply Occam's Razor to the situation (the simplest explanation is the most likely to be true).

From the very little I know about it, he's discarded you and therefore you're not important to him (or at least he doesn't want to give the impression that you're important).  You also say that he's NPD, so he's someone that likes to have power over others.  Put those two things together, you're not important to him but he still likes having power over you, and there you have it: he's doing this as an effort to passive aggressively manipulate and control you.... or he's actually really busy and doesn't care enough to make an effort.  I'd bet on the manipulative control though.

[fish2019]

Although PD's don't seem to abide by logic, I'd still apply Occam's Razor to the situation (the simplest explanation is the most likely to be true).

From the very little I know about it, he's discarded you and therefore you're not important to him (or at least he doesn't want to give the impression that you're important).  You also say that he's NPD, so he's someone that likes to have power over others.  Put those two things together, you're not important to him but he still likes having power over you, and there you have it: he's doing this as an effort to passive aggressively manipulate and control you.... or he's actually really busy and doesn't care enough to make an effort.  I'd bet on the manipulative control though.

Thank you, this makes so much sense. I guess the best thing to do is forget about it really and not contact, otherwise it's just more fuel and power in his mind.

[PeanutButter]

I'd spoken to my ex with NPD about meeting this weekend a while ago (he still has my stuff including something quite sentimental and I want closure on the whole situation after being discarded).
I checked earlier this week if he could still make it. He said: "Oh I might be going to away now so feel free to make other plans. Can I see you on a weekday after I've been paid?'
I was like, well these are the three dates I'm free over the next few weeks thinking he'd pick one. But instead he again just said ok, I'll let you know. I tried to joke a bit and was like it's almost like you don't want to see me. And he was like no I do, I just have a few busy weekends coming up and chores to do. 
I don't know if he just isn't interested... or he's playing a bigger game.

He has discarded you? You want your stuff back and to get closure from him so a meeting was arranged? At what point did the meeting become about 'him wanting to see you"? Sorry if I missed the back story. If I didnt miss relevant info then my opinion based from my own experience with unpdxH is that if you are trying to hang on for a possible reconciliation, he is gladly throwing out strings to keep you as a 'just in case I might ever need her again'.
You deserve better than this. IME a npd cannot give you closure about why they discarded you.

[GettingOOTF]

He is controlling and manipulating you. He has nothing to gain by giving you your stuff back. Doing so will give him one less hold over you.

He's not keeping your stuff in the hope you'll get back together, he's doing it to control and manipulate you. It's a game to him.

Arrange a time, if he cancels speak to the authorities about getting your stuff back, or walk away from it. I let my ex keep a lot of sentimental things of mine. Letting go and moving on was worth it to me.

Why does he need to wait until he gets paid to give you back your stuff? Be honest with yourself about what you expect from this encounter with him.

[fish2019]

Sorry you're right I didn't give much context. For the full back story, I was with him for nearly 4 years. He discarded me because 'the spark was gone' and he realised he didn't love me anymore.

About a month later I got a call from his 'new girlfriend'. He'd been having relationships with us both at the same time for 6 months, I had no idea. She took him back. He 'confessed' to cheating with her (but not the others I later found out about) and said he wanted to be friends, saying that he wanted to meet up in the new year which would give him 'time to reflect' on everything. He messaged me in January to thank me for everything I'd done for him during the relationship.

Reading the very smart responses here, I feel like that was a tactic to make sure I hadn't moved on in that time?

It almost feels like he's waiting for things to go wrong with the new girlfriend or something, I could be wrong though.

[PeanutButter]

Sorry you're right I didn't give much context. For the full back story, I was with him for nearly 4 years. He discarded me because 'the spark was gone' and he realised he didn't love me anymore.

About a month later I got a call from his 'new girlfriend'. He'd been having relationships with us both at the same time for 6 months, I had no idea. She took him back. He 'confessed' to cheating with her (but not the others I later found out about) and said he wanted to be friends, saying that he wanted to meet up in the new year which would give him 'time to reflect' on everything. He messaged me in January to thank me for everything I'd done for him during the relationship.

Reading the very smart responses here, I feel like that was a tactic to make sure I hadn't moved on in that time?

It almost feels like he's waiting for things to go wrong with the new girlfriend or something, I could be wrong though.

Ok, thanks for more info.
I went through something similar. My ex DID use 'Staying friends' to manipulate me. I also was not 'aware' of my expectations through out and kinda just went which ever way my emotions swayed me at the time. My ex knew just what to say to 'soften' me up' no matter how bad he hurt me.  So I got used over and over again.
Im so sorry for what you are going through. Its so painful I know. Keep going easy with yourself. Try to protect yourself though. He sounds like he cant be trusted by his words so I agree with the advice 'watch what he does' instead.
Do you think he is 'busy' with her? Or trying to keep your stuff so no 'permanent end' happens? Tricky to tell I guess.

[PeanutButter]

Going forward if he wants to keep 'talking' I would expect more transparency. I would need more specific details if he expected me to move the meeting to a future date and then wait for it. If he continues to keep it all vague I would tell him to forget about it.
Then I would take myself out on the town! 

[eyesopen]

He cheated.  That alone should be clear evidence that he's totally comfortable with lying, manipulating, and using you for his own selfish reasons.  For your own good, please detach yourself from all connection with him has quickly as possible.  Any excuses he uses to delay your ability to get your stuff and leave are pure manipulation to feed his ego.

Read up on chumplady.com, there are thousands of people out there like us (I was also cheated on) that are good, honest people that are unfortunate enough to have been tangled up in someone else's selfish mess.

[fish2019]

Sorry you're right I didn't give much context. For the full back story, I was with him for nearly 4 years. He discarded me because 'the spark was gone' and he realised he didn't love me anymore.

About a month later I got a call from his 'new girlfriend'. He'd been having relationships with us both at the same time for 6 months, I had no idea. She took him back. He 'confessed' to cheating with her (but not the others I later found out about) and said he wanted to be friends, saying that he wanted to meet up in the new year which would give him 'time to reflect' on everything. He messaged me in January to thank me for everything I'd done for him during the relationship.

Reading the very smart responses here, I feel like that was a tactic to make sure I hadn't moved on in that time?

It almost feels like he's waiting for things to go wrong with the new girlfriend or something, I could be wrong though.

Ok, thanks for more info.
I went through something similar. My ex DID use 'Staying friends' to manipulate me. I also was not 'aware' of my expectations through out and kinda just went which ever way my emotions swayed me at the time. My ex knew just what to say to 'soften' me up' no matter how bad he hurt me.  So I got used over and over again.
Im so sorry for what you are going through. Its so painful I know. Keep going easy with yourself. Try to protect yourself though. He sounds like he cant be trusted by his words so I agree with the advice 'watch what he does' instead.
Do you think he is 'busy' with her? Or trying to keep your stuff so no 'permanent end' happens? Tricky to tell I guess.

Sorry to hear that you went through something similar too, it's hard

I'm not sure, just interesting how he wanted to leave it until this year. And now he's not committing to a date.

Last month (I posted about it) he tried to triangulate us both by jokingly asking me to like one of his photos. I did to see what game he was playing, which resulted in me almost immediately getting a text from his new girlfriend (she's blocked, but messages go through to a folder on my phone rather than just never coming through) saying how happy she was that he and I were friends again and she wouldn't let their relationship stand in the way of our bond, that I was a wonderful person etc.  Her behaviour towards me has been very strange from the beginning.

He hasn't mentioned her once to me since confessing, they've been together for nearly a year now, he hasn't posted a single picture of them together when he put mine up within weeks (I recently found out he was still seeing his ex at the same time, he discarded her in the same way he did to me), and now he's playing games with the new girl to make her threatened and work harder than ever to keep him. So, he might be busy but it feels like he might also be starting to get bored.

I'm just speculating though, I have no idea.

Either way I agree with you that if there's no firm plans from him over the next few weeks then I should just cut all contact (and my losses).  Cheers to us all surviving these people

[fish2019]

He cheated.  That alone should be clear evidence that he's totally comfortable with lying, manipulating, and using you for his own selfish reasons.  For your own good, please detach yourself from all connection with him has quickly as possible.  Any excuses he uses to delay your ability to get your stuff and leave are pure manipulation to feed his ego.

Read up on chumplady.com, there are thousands of people out there like us (I was also cheated on) that are good, honest people that are unfortunate enough to have been tangled up in someone else's selfish mess.

Thank you for this and your advice, great resource 

[GettingOOTF]

It doesn't matter how he conducts his relationship with her. That's his business and it's not your problem to solve.

There is no good outcome for you here. Do you want to sit around waiting for him to become "bored" with her and take you back until he finds someone else? That is the only likely scenario here. You can waste years of your life like this. I've seen friends do it themselves.

No contact is the only way. He cheated on you when you were in a relationship, he is going to be a terrible friend just like he was a terrible partner. You so so deserve more than this. If you were my friend I'd tell you to let him keep the stuff and focus on building a life with out him and men like him. 

[Associate of Daniel]

I'm sorry you're going through all of this.  Cheating seems to be a common thing with pds and it's very difficult to be the one who has been discarded.

I agree with the others that his current unwillingness to co operate is probably due to his need for power/control and to keep you on the shelf ready to fill his need for supply.

I can't help wondering though, what about your stuff?

Is there anything important (financial /insurance / estate documents) there?  Any sentimental or essential items?  Perhaps you should try again to retrieve your stuff.

Do you still have a key to the apartment? Is your name still on the lease or deed?  If so, you surely have a right to go and retrieve your things.

Can you arrange to go at a time when he's not there?

AOD

[fish2019]

I'm sorry you're going through all of this.  Cheating seems to be a common thing with pds and it's very difficult to be the one who has been discarded.

I agree with the others that his current unwillingness to co operate is probably due to his need for power/control and to keep you on the shelf ready to fill his need for supply.

I can't help wondering though, what about your stuff?

Is there anything important (financial /insurance / estate documents) there?  Any sentimental or essential items?  Perhaps you should try again to retrieve your stuff.

Do you still have a key to the apartment? Is your name still on the lease or deed?  If so, you surely have a right to go and retrieve your things.

Can you arrange to go at a time when he's not there?

AOD

Before he discarded me he told me he wanted to break up temporarily to 'work on his mental health' and we'd get back together once he'd had some counselling. So, we stored our stuff at his work and some at his family's home. That stuff I don't care so much about but it's still hundreds of $$$ that I invested in that relationship.

The main sentimental thing is that when we first started dating he found out I had been talking to other guys to start with. I never met up with anyone and it was long before we'd ever had any conversations about being exclusive. He lost it when he found out (and would later always throw that back in my face any time I challenged his behaviour on potential evidence he was cheating on me).

To prove to him I was serious about the relationship, I gave him my most precious possession to look after, a photo of my grandmother and I who passed away when I was 4. I told him it was important to me because she was the one person in my life I knew truly loved me. He gave me such a hard time about the other guys and took that from me knowing he'd already cheated on me at least twice.

He could just transfer the money and send that photo back to me if he doesn't want to meet up, but I feel like again he's not because it's just another way to keeping me from moving on. Like him messaging me in January to thank me for everything I'd done for him during the relationship.

On some level I think I want to see him just to get one last glance before I slam the door shut on that life. For him to see that as hard as he tried he didn't break me. But I know that doesn't make a lot of sense.

[GettingOOTF]

The issue with PDs is they don't see that they didn't break you. It's not how they think.

When he sees you he's going to think that he did break you and he does control you because you are there on his terms.

What I can to realize with my BPDxH is that it didn't matter what he thought. He thought he "won", that he was in control etc. It doesn't matter to me because he's not in my life. He can think what he wants. He can tell people what he wants. It has absolutely no impact on my life.

From what you've written the odds of you getting the money or that photo back are slim. No man worth being with would need your most precious possession as proof of your "devotion". He accepted those things from you so he's have something over you.

I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars during the course of my marriage. That money is gone. I will never get it back. It was an expensive lesson for me and I'm more prudent in relationships now. Again, if he were going to give you the money back he would have. It's a sunk cost now.

No relationship needs to "take a break" in my view and experience. I know that's what I said to my ex because I didn't want to deal with the fall out of telling him it was over. I don't know of a single friend or colleague whose boyfriend has asked to "take a break" for any reason other than to see if there are better options/pursue a current interest and keep a fall back girl. There may be cases where it's valid but in loving, strong relationships people work through issue together and that work doesn't include having sex with other people.

This man doesn't deserve you and you deserve a happy life where you know and value your self worth. I used to let people treat me like this. I used to do things like hand over precious items and money to keep men in my life. I used to wait around and make excuses while they were off with other women. I see so much of myself in your post. I read Codependent No More and it changed the way I interacted with people. It put me on a path to self discovery and finally finding some worth in myself. I wish the same for you.

[PeanutButter]

Before he discarded me he told me he wanted to break up temporarily to 'work on his mental health' and we'd get back together once he'd had some counselling. So, we stored our stuff at his work and some at his family's home. That stuff I don't care so much about but it's still hundreds of $$$ that I invested in that relationship.
The main sentimental thing is that when we first started dating he found out I had been talking to other guys to start with. I never met up with anyone and it was long before we'd ever had any conversations about being exclusive. He lost it when he found out (and would later always throw that back in my face any time I challenged his behaviour on potential evidence he was cheating on me).
To prove to him I was serious about the relationship, I gave him my most precious possession to look after, a photo of my grandmother and I who passed away when I was 4. I told him it was important to me because she was the one person in my life I knew truly loved me. He gave me such a hard time about the other guys and took that from me knowing he'd already cheated on me at least twice.
He could just transfer the money and send that photo back to me if he doesn't want to meet up, but I feel like again he's not because it's just another way to keeping me from moving on. Like him messaging me in January to thank me for everything I'd done for him during the relationship.
On some level I think I want to see him just to get one last glance before I slam the door shut on that life. For him to see that as hard as he tried he didn't break me. But I know that doesn't make a lot of sense.

IME it is very important and I think healthy for you to search for and then aknowledge what your needs are and to get clear on what you are expecting going forward. It DOES make sense to me for you to give yourself whatever you need without judgement of yourself going forward. It makes sense to me for you to accept where you are at in this journey right now even if you are not ready to move on yet. Let yourself just be wherever you are with it all. When your ready to do something then you will do it. Its ok to do nothing at all and just take good care of yourself.IMO

[fish2019]

The issue with PDs is they don't see that they didn't break you. It's not how they think.

When he sees you he's going to think that he did break you and he does control you because you are there on his terms.

What I can to realize with my BPDxH is that it didn't matter what he thought. He thought he "won", that he was in control etc. It doesn't matter to me because he's not in my life. He can think what he wants. He can tell people what he wants. It has absolutely no impact on my life.

From what you've written the odds of you getting the money or that photo back are slim. No man worth being with would need your most precious possession as proof of your "devotion". He accepted those things from you so he's have something over you.

I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars during the course of my marriage. That money is gone. I will never get it back. It was an expensive lesson for me and I'm more prudent in relationships now. Again, if he were going to give you the money back he would have. It's a sunk cost now.

No relationship needs to "take a break" in my view and experience. I know that's what I said to my ex because I didn't want to deal with the fall out of telling him it was over. I don't know of a single friend or colleague whose boyfriend has asked to "take a break" for any reason other than to see if there are better options/pursue a current interest and keep a fall back girl. There may be cases where it's valid but in loving, strong relationships people work through issue together and that work doesn't include having sex with other people.

This man doesn't deserve you and you deserve a happy life where you know and value your self worth. I used to let people treat me like this. I used to do things like hand over precious items and money to keep men in my life. I used to wait around and make excuses while they were off with other women. I see so much of myself in your post. I read Codependent No More and it changed the way I interacted with people. It put me on a path to self discovery and finally finding some worth in myself. I wish the same for you.

Thank you, the therapist I'm seeing at the moment told me to get this book too. Being discarded for someone else throws up so many questions about why you weren't enough and you're left sat there trying to figure out what this new girl has that's somehow better than you. I feel like I'm never going to trust that I'm enough for anyone after this.

[fish2019]

Before he discarded me he told me he wanted to break up temporarily to 'work on his mental health' and we'd get back together once he'd had some counselling. So, we stored our stuff at his work and some at his family's home. That stuff I don't care so much about but it's still hundreds of $$$ that I invested in that relationship.
The main sentimental thing is that when we first started dating he found out I had been talking to other guys to start with. I never met up with anyone and it was long before we'd ever had any conversations about being exclusive. He lost it when he found out (and would later always throw that back in my face any time I challenged his behaviour on potential evidence he was cheating on me).
To prove to him I was serious about the relationship, I gave him my most precious possession to look after, a photo of my grandmother and I who passed away when I was 4. I told him it was important to me because she was the one person in my life I knew truly loved me. He gave me such a hard time about the other guys and took that from me knowing he'd already cheated on me at least twice.
He could just transfer the money and send that photo back to me if he doesn't want to meet up, but I feel like again he's not because it's just another way to keeping me from moving on. Like him messaging me in January to thank me for everything I'd done for him during the relationship.
On some level I think I want to see him just to get one last glance before I slam the door shut on that life. For him to see that as hard as he tried he didn't break me. But I know that doesn't make a lot of sense.

IME it is very important and I think healthy for you to search for and then aknowledge what your needs are and to get clear on what you are expecting going forward. It DOES make sense to me for you to give yourself whatever you need without judgement of yourself going forward. It makes sense to me for you to accept where you are at in this journey right now even if you are not ready to move on yet. Let yourself just be wherever you are with it all. When your ready to do something then you will do it. Its ok to do nothing at all and just take good care of yourself.IMO

Thank you, I appreciate the lack of judgement. All of my friends are furious that I haven't blocked him yet and that I'm even entertaining the idea of seeing him, but it just feels like something I need to do to move on.