Its OK if it costs me money but he wont spend a penny!

[lkdrymom]

This isn't about the money. He knows that this is a button that he can press that frustrates you.  He doesn't want to solve this so-called problem.  He wants to control your emotions.  He feels anxious at the thought of spending money.  He then involves you in a circular argument and frustrates you.  Which soothes him, makes him feel in control of something.  His payoff isn't in finding a solution, his payoff is in yanking your emotions around. 

I doubt he can verbalize this, but believe me he feels a thrill when he can find a way  to get you to feel HIS anxiety and transfer HIS chaos to you.  Logic isn't going to solve this as he doesn't want it solved, he just wants you upset and focusing your time and energy on him.

Try MC and just detach.  "I don't know, Dad.  You're smart, you'll figure this out."   That sentence should give him pause. But who knows with PD's, he might try another angle, think of a few responses and practice them. Look over WomanInterrupted's conversation non starters she has used with her parents for inspiration.

Never thought of that..... He does seem to like to shovel problems over to me.
And EVERYTHINg is a problem....

I think you are on to something here.   One line i used on my Dad that seemed to work was "I don't know what to tell you ". I used this when I just didn't have the time to deal with yet another silly problem he has made up.

[Outsiderchild]

One line i used on my Dad that seemed to work was "I don't know what to tell you ". I used this when I just didn't have the time to deal with yet another silly problem he has made up.

What happened the first time you used it?   What happened after you used it several times?

[lkdrymom]

One line i used on my Dad that seemed to work was "I don't know what to tell you ". I used this when I just didn't have the time to deal with yet another silly problem he has made up.

What happened the first time you used it?   What happened after you used it several times?

He would then drop the subject.  They enjoy a good game of 'shoot down every suggestion'.  Don't participate.  If you make a bunch of suggestions they will have every excuse in the book something won't work (usually because it requires them to do something).  Play dumb...have no ideas on how to solve the latest crisis. Takes the wind right out of their sails.

[WomanInterrupted]

Somebody here used to call the game of "Shoot Down Every Suggestion" the game of "Yes, But..." - and even told her mother she didn't have time to play a round of it!   

I used to use, "Well, I don't know what to tell you.  I don't know what you want me to say..." - then I'd wait a beat and add, "Your smart enough to figure out something on your own.  I have to go." - and end the call, if the phone didn't manage to get slammed down in my ear, first.

Those phrases are *awesome* because you're pushing everything right back to their side of the table, where it belongs.  You can even do that will your dad's unreasonable demands to come NOW, it's AN EMERGENCY, he has a GAS LEAK COME NOW! 

You:  "I've spoken to the gas man and he  says the leak is minor.  He'll be there X day.  And I don't know what to tell you other than that.  I don't know what you want me to say..."   

He'll probably say that he wants you to come NOW, to which I'd camly reply, "That's not going to happen, and you're smart enough to figure out something on your own, so I'll leave you to it.  Goodbye." - then hang up and block his number until you know the gas man has come and gone. 

I'd use variants of the same thing every time Didi or Ray had a "problem" and leave it with them.  I never took the bait - or the anxiety - and left the problems where I found them, without doing a thing.

I think you'll  surprise yourself in how quickly it becomes a natural reaction.

[p123]

I have now with this. Every time he mentions it I say "well I told you new TV was the only option". Scares him then that someone is suggesting he spends money!

I was thinking about getting him and amazon fire tv stick. You can get the app on there apparently. But then I thought, hang on I'll end up wasting my time trying to work it out, then he'll moan and say no when I tell him its £40 to buy.

I do have a spare one (well not used at the moment) but, do you know what I don't want to give it to him? Kids might use it one day. He can well afford his own and I just think - hell no you're not have my stuff for me because you're such a cheapskate.

[nanotech]

This isn't your problem.  He's a grown man with all his cognitive faculties.
As soon as you take it on board,  he gets a  huge kick out of your efforts to solve it.
He more or less knows you can't.
Do you see what he does? He puts you in a maze with no exit, then chuckles at your attempts to get out.
I'm sorry if this is blunt. I'm in a blunt mood!
It's just so clear to me that he's working you. Or trying to.
I've had the same bemoaning from my dad  about the demise of the red button.
Hmmm just thinking- I bet if I worked in IT and fixed things for people on a regular basis, he might be the same with me.
Then again, he might not.
I'm female you see, and he sees us as less competent in all things except babies, housework and cooking. So his sexism has possibly worked in my favour this time and got me off the hook. 
He certainly accepted it when I've told him I wasn't driving him here and there to his unnecessary appointments. He put it down to my being female and easily flustered by driving in different towns and cities! Oh well, whatever works!
It's harder for guys to pull this off!!

[p123]

This isn't your problem.  He's a grown man with all his cognitive faculties.
As soon as you take it on board,  he gets a  huge kick out of your efforts to solve it.
He more or less knows you can't.
Do you see what he does? He puts you in a maze with no exit, then chuckles at your attempts to get out.
I'm sorry if this is blunt. I'm in a blunt mood!
It's just so clear to me that he's working you. Or trying to.
I've had the same bemoaning from my dad  about the demise of the red button.
Hmmm just thinking- I bet if I worked in IT and fixed things for people on a regular basis, he might be the same with me.
Then again, he might not.
I'm female you see, and he sees us as less competent in all things except babies, housework and cooking. So his sexism has possibly worked in my favour this time and got me off the hook. 
He certainly accepted it when I've told him I wasn't driving him here and there to his unnecessary appointments. He put it down to my being female and easily flustered by driving in different towns and cities! Oh well, whatever works!
It's harder for guys to pull this off!!

Oh yeh. See what you mean... He does deffo get a warm feeling when he gets people to do stuff for him. Thing is I don't mind helping but when I spent hours trying to sort and he doesn't want to spend £10-£20....

Know what you mean about the sexism thing. Dad retired when he was 58. Moved into his own flat (just got divorced). Refused to get a washing machine.
Didnt know how to use it (yeh right) and he admitted it was "womens work".

I tried to talk him around. His older sister steamed in and offered - that was it. She did his washing for years. Dragged his stuff on the bus etc. In the end she had enough (dad worked his magic) and stopped. I thought it was funny- you're fault for offering years ago.

Since then hes got various girlfriend (and now his wife) to do his laundry. Occasionally, he asked me to "ask my wife". Stupidly, I did it a few times and he was horrified that I'd actually chucked it in the washing machine not my wife! He still kept asking me to "ask my wife".

In the end I said no more. Either buy a washing machine (I would sort it all out) or pay a laundrette (I found one for him). He did neither. Kept relying on brothers partner. Carry on. So when brothers away he washes his clothes by hand in the kitchen sink. I know! Not the cleanest is my Dad at the best of times...

He STILL asks me "do me a favour and ask your wife" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[nanotech]

Speechless about the washing!
His sister made a rod for her own back. I bet she got no thanks for it.
Enabling behaviour works out as unhelpful for everyone. It sets a pattern of expectation.
My dad does own his washing and he makes sure he does it just like mum did it. UNPD sis helps a little with ironing.  (I think it helped that mum taught him some domestic things before she passed away. He even bakes mum's cake recipe).
Mum didn't want her daughters to care for dad domestically ( her BPD rivalry issues) so in a way her disorder worked a little in our favour at least on this (always a silver lining).

[p123]

Speechless about the washing!
His sister made a rod for her own back. I bet she got no thanks for it.
Enabling behaviour works out as unhelpful for everyone. It sets a pattern of expectation.
My dad does own his washing and he makes sure he does it just like mum did it. UNPD sis helps a little with ironing.  (I think it helped that mum taught him some domestic things before she passed away. He even bakes mum's cake recipe).
Mum didn't want her daughters to care for dad domestically ( her BPD rivalry issues) so in a way her disorder worked a little in our favour at least on this (always a silver lining).

Yes his older sister used to mollycoddle. Once she offered the washing machine battle was lost....She got quite nasty with me "someone could  help him out" and if noone else would then she'd help her little brother. Bear in mind he was a grown ass 58 year old man at this point!

His sisters husband stopped driving. Dad let her carry bags of his laundry on the bus then she had to walk 1/2 mile for years. Shes 6 years older than Dad! In the end, pretty sure she couldnt cope. I did find it a little funny because she made the rod - I'm going to hell!

Oh and I remember he used to buy her a small box of Roses every xmas to say thanks - the ones that cost £2-£3......

[nanotech]

😂 Thats my dad's sort of present as well!  He doesn't mind us spending more on him though. 
I can't believe your dad thought it was ok for his sister to do all that.
My sister changes dad's sheets and I've done it a couple of times with her. I can't do it again, because the process, as ordered by dad, is very strange and very regimented. Sister accepts that for ease-she can't cope with standing up to him.
Instead she acts the whole weird process out for dad,
I can't.
It isn't just changing a bed. Two sheets, half tucked in half not. Has to be just so. Sheets have to face  a certain way with  longest hem big at the top and a particular amount folded over and partly tucked, just so. 
What the actual f bomb. (I've had three kids and got really fast at changing beds. I had to be fast as I had a lot of housework to do and when the kids were older I also worked full time). I used to do four beds in one morning, no problem.
There's really no need for all of the fussing that goes on over one bed.
Then after it all- it's NOT ALL CLEAN!
Last time it involved me being told to put a dirty duvet cover back on the duvet, because 'we don't need to change the top duvet very often and it doesn't happen yet' ( until dad asks her, in other words).
Yes, but he sits/ lies on it every day? He takes cuppas to bed and sometimes toast?
It wasn't all that  fresh. There's nothing nicer than all fresh linen.  I would have changed it but I wasn't allowed to!

[p123]

😂 Thats my dad's sort of present as well!  He doesn't mind us spending more on him though. 
I can't believe your dad thought it was ok for his sister to do all that.
My sister changes dad's sheets and I've done it a couple of times with her. I can't do it again, because the process, as ordered by dad, is very strange and very regimented. Sister accepts that for ease-she can't cope with standing up to him.
Instead she acts the whole weird process out for dad,
I can't.
It isn't just changing a bed. Two sheets, half tucked in half not. Has to be just so. Sheets have to face  a certain way with  longest hem big at the top and a particular amount folded over and partly tucked, just so. 
What the actual f bomb. (I've had three kids and got really fast at changing beds. I had to be fast as I had a lot of housework to do and when the kids were older I also worked full time). I used to do four beds in one morning, no problem.
There's really no need for all of the fussing that goes on over one bed.
Then after it all- it's NOT ALL CLEAN!
Last time it involved me being told to put a dirty duvet cover back on the duvet, because 'we don't need to change the top duvet very often and it doesn't happen yet' ( until dad asks her, in other words).
Yes, but he sits/ lies on it every day? He takes cuppas to bed and sometimes toast?
It wasn't all that  fresh. There's nothing nicer than all fresh linen.  I would have changed it but I wasn't allowed to!

Oh yes thats Dad too. Thats why he cancels the Carers all the time - dont do it right!

Dad will let anyone do anything. He has no concept of "taking the p*ss". A few months ago he got his cousin (3 years younger) to push him around town in his wheelchair. Up and down hills. Made his cousin ill because he struggled. Dad was not bothered AT ALL. Couldn't see why it was a problem "Well I asked him and he said he'd do it!"

[p123]

I think I mention his electric shaver. EVERY TIME I speak to him I get an explanation how its not working, how he put it back together etc.

My response - BUY A NEW ONE !!! I will even order it off amazon and get it delivered to you- £25....

I've now given up and don;t even listen. This weekend he was telling me how hes going to fix it again because he doesn't really want to buy a new one. I just switched off and went to my happy place.

This is the man (and I know because I have online access) who has loose change shy of £40K ($50K) in his bank account. Honestly, you could not make it up how tightfisted he is. I am not interested. Spend it or don't spend but dont moan things are not working and you're not interested in spending a penny.

[nanotech]

He may be trying to get you to buy him one!
My dad does things like this sometimes. He's tried it with theatre tickets and train tickets.

Not succeeded.  😉

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

UNM whined for years about how she missed having a disposal. DH installed one for her one Christmas. Then the dishwasher died, and she was whining in the same exact way about it to DH for months rather than take ownership and just replace it. Still at it when we went NC.

Like your dad, she'd rather do without than spend the money. She also clearly hoped to get DH to do it again, which would have been massive supply. It also gave her something to complain and play the martyr about, which gives her a reason to get out of bed in the morning. So why buy a dishwasher and give up all the possibilities? Once the problem is solved the good times are over.

[p123]

He may be trying to get you to buy him one!
My dad does things like this sometimes. He's tried it with theatre tickets and train tickets.

Not succeeded.  😉

Ha ha maybe. Honestly, £40K in the bank and hes agonising for weeks about spending flippin £25! Sick of hearing about it to be honest.... Buy one!

[p123]

Oh jeez - how much time can you spend on one small applicance?

Hes been going on about it for weeks now. I just switch off and say "let me know and I'll get one off amazon for you". Yes I  wish I hadn't offered.

So he phones me on my way home from work.  The old one has finally packed up, can I order him a new one? When will it come?
So I said "right I'm off out tonight so I can't order until tomorrow so it'll be sometime friday".

"BUT BUT I need it tomorrow, I can't go out without shaving". Why? But there we go up to him (Im here in the office with 3 days stubble lol).
Ultimately, if shaving is SO IMPORTANT then surely you need to spend money to ensure you have a decent working shaver? Isn't that normal?

I did the phone call version of a shrug. And no I don't have time to order it tonight.

Then I get so how much? Can I ring him and check price is ok? NOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not spending hours back and fore "too expensive can't you get cheaper".

Then so what time will they deliver? Can you phone amazon and ask them? NOOOOOO!!!!!!

[lkdrymom]

You are missing the point. There is no fun in you EASILY solving this problem by ordering off of Amazon.  He wanted you to 'make an effort" and get it to him right away.  What is the point if you don't have to go out of your way for this???

I would run to the store to get my father something and upon return he would ask if I also got 'other thing" .  When I say no, you didn't ask for "other thing" he would seriously expect me to run right back out an get it.  Like Hell I will.  That is when I learned that Amazon was my friend and would just order everything I could on line. He didn't like that he had to wait a day to get it. Everything with them is an emergency.

[NumbLotus]

Great job on not capitulating to his demands for same day order or the absolutely lovely drama that would have unfolded if you had checked in with him on price first.

It is indeed hilarious and baffling. If I had an appliance that was noticably dying and I felt like I couldn't live two days without it, I would be proactive about replacing it.

PDs throw all responsibility off onto others. So he could have dealt with this but somehow he expected you to treat his lack of effort as an emergency.

[p123]

You are missing the point. There is no fun in you EASILY solving this problem by ordering off of Amazon.  He wanted you to 'make an effort" and get it to him right away.  What is the point if you don't have to go out of your way for this???

I would run to the store to get my father something and upon return he would ask if I also got 'other thing" .  When I say no, you didn't ask for "other thing" he would seriously expect me to run right back out an get it.  Like Hell I will.  That is when I learned that Amazon was my friend and would just order everything I could on line. He didn't like that he had to wait a day to get it. Everything with them is an emergency.

Yeh I guess this is true. Why make it simple lol !

[p123]

Great job on not capitulating to his demands for same day order or the absolutely lovely drama that would have unfolded if you had checked in with him on price first.

It is indeed hilarious and baffling. If I had an appliance that was noticably dying and I felt like I couldn't live two days without it, I would be proactive about replacing it.

PDs throw all responsibility off onto others. So he could have dealt with this but somehow he expected you to treat his lack of effort as an emergency.

Such drama for one item that cost £30 in the end. I worked out he could buy over a 1000 and still have plenty of savings left.......

I just don't have time for one small problem to turn into such a drama. I'll get a phone call about 10am guaranteed - "its not been delivered yet, where is it?". I think its phone off time friday. I've never known such a drama.

Appliance is playing up, is it expensive, if not buy a new one and wait.

The number of times hes done this. Its the end of the world, until he works out hes got to spend money, then "he'll manage". Then it packs up completely, and its an emergency.