Its OK if it costs me money but he wont spend a penny!

[p123]

Like £2 for home delivery shopping "not paying that". How on earth is that not more cost effective than me driving 25 miles each way? Honestly....

Latest and greatest. Not sure if it was ever a thing in the USA but UK people will know. Teletext. Basically, a dead slow interactive text thing via your TV. You can get news, weather, sports results etc.
Of course, people just use the internet now so its closing down early next year.

Of course, Dad uses it all the time. Hes been moaning for week. Basically every time I speak to him its moan, moan what am I going to do? Can you phone them? (what?)

He has internet (doesnt use it) because it was cheaper as a package for his phone. So I looked into it. His TV is really old - not even HD which he could do with. So I thought, OK lets get a smart TV, HD, and he can get sports results etc on there. Found a decent not too flashy one - £300. (Bear in mind hes for £40K in the bank).

So I tell him, its as if I told him his house was being repossessed. Spend money? So thats it he'll struggle on without it rather than spend ANY money.
Point is don't nag me CONSTANTLY for weeks then decide its not happening because you're too tight.

I have NEVER met anyone as cheap as my Dad. Honestly. I remember the TV prog "Extreme Cheapskates" (its a US TV series. My Dad could be on there.

[NumbLotus]

I think you're looking for the logic in this like he's a normal person. He's not a normal person, he is functioning in PD world.

Normal people indeed would find 2 quid a bargain for delivery, especially since their son would probably spend that on petrol for the round trip, not to mention all the time and fuss.

In PD land, the time and fuss and being put out is the jackpot. Of course your father has no interest in delivery.

Normal people may groan a bit when a technology they still use goes obsolete, but they make a decision on whther they want to upgrade or not and let it go.

In PD land, this is a perfect opportunity to do all the fun stuff - drive you crazy, get you to do research and other fuss, maybe get you to BUY a fancy new item, certainly gives license to complain on and on. He really likes all that. Jackpot.

You're still engaging with him, though. Stop thinking he will see why delivery is an onvious choice, because in PD land, it is different. Don't JADE with him - "Dad, I'll arrange delivery." "But 2 quid!!!" "Won't be able to drive out so delivery it is." "But but but." "Dunno what to tell ya, delivery is all I can do." "But but but" "Dad, I gotta go. Talk to you later."

But you're still arguing with him on the logic. Give up on tbat.

TV, same thing. It was lovely of you to do the research. He chose to do without. When he moans, shrug. "Oh well. Nope, can't do a thing about it other than the new TV I found. Well, you vertainly can call if you like. No, I've already looked into it, so it's up to you. Dad, I gotta go. Talk to you later." No talk about what he has in his bank account.

[p123]

I think you're looking for the logic in this like he's a normal person. He's not a normal person, he is functioning in PD world.

Normal people indeed would find 2 quid a bargain for delivery, especially since their son would probably spend that on petrol for the round trip, not to mention all the time and fuss.

In PD land, the time and fuss and being put out is the jackpot. Of course your father has no interest in delivery.

Normal people may groan a bit when a technology they still use goes obsolete, but they make a decision on whther they want to upgrade or not and let it go.

In PD land, this is a perfect opportunity to do all the fun stuff - drive you crazy, get you to do research and other fuss, maybe get you to BUY a fancy new item, certainly gives license to complain on and on. He really likes all that. Jackpot.

You're still engaging with him, though. Stop thinking he will see why delivery is an onvious choice, because in PD land, it is different. Don't JADE with him - "Dad, I'll arrange delivery." "But 2 quid!!!" "Won't be able to drive out so delivery it is." "But but but." "Dunno what to tell ya, delivery is all I can do." "But but but" "Dad, I gotta go. Talk to you later."

But you're still arguing with him on the logic. Give up on tbat.

TV, same thing. It was lovely of you to do the research. He chose to do without. When he moans, shrug. "Oh well. Nope, can't do a thing about it other than the new TV I found. Well, you vertainly can call if you like. No, I've already looked into it, so it's up to you. Dad, I gotta go. Talk to you later." No talk about what he has in his bank account.

Yes you're right of course. But honestly....

I get it about the delivery. Hes fighting tooth and nail against that. But I often tell him (never works) what good is money in the bank?

[HotCocoa]

Quit fighting with him. Accept what is.  Your father just wants you running to him every weekend to take time away from your wife and kids.  He already admitted he doesn't like your wife.  He already has food delivery, meals on wheels.  You are the one making these decisions to spend this time away from your family for someone who I can only imagine wished you would give up your family and move next door to him to be as his command so you can make bets for him. 
Perhaps its time to take a long time out from this merry go round with him.  Do it while your FOC needs you, instead of them getting used to you not being there because of your father's unreasonable demands, is it really worth that? 

[WomanInterrupted]

I agree with Hot Cocoa, and my best advice about this is to do *nothing.* 

Not a thing - the phrase, "No good deed goes unpunished" applies here. 

The smartest thing is for your dad to keep the TV he's familiar with, even if the Teletext service becomes obsolete. 

You don't want to throw constant calls about his new TV not working on top of all the calls you're going to get to look up this, that, or the other for him!   

Yeah!  I've lived this hell, and  want you to avoid it!   

Didi got a new remote for her TV that was *identical* to her old remote, except the buttons were bigger, yet she kept insisting she didn't know how to use it and I had to come over and show her.   

I took one look at it and said, "It's exactly the same as the one you had." 

She insisted it wasn't and didn't work - funny, but it worked just fine when I used it, so she said I'd have to come over and change channels FOR her. 

I told her that wasn't going to happen, and that was the last I heard of the remote not working, because Didi also had a portable DVD player she didn't know how to use.  The instructions were in too small a print, so I took them home, blew them up, brought them back and she *refused to even look at them,* saying I could figure it out FOR her and show her.   

Which I stupidly did - I mean, it was really easy to use and pretty intuitive, but Didi was being intentionally thick as a post, and insisted I'd have to come over and operate it FOR her when she wanted to watch Downton Abbey. 

That was one of the last times I was at the lair.  Any time she "hinted" at watching her DVD's, I was busy, couldn't get away, couldn't drop everything, and I'd see what I could do, but couldn't promise anything.   

That left only me being Didi and Ray's personal Alexa.  They'd call and say, "I need you to look up..." - no hello, no how are things, nothing but an ORDER to look up something on the internet, which was easier for them than using the damned phone book.

Didi even claimed that she didn't know HOW to use one! 

That's when the internet got broken.   

Yeah - can't look up anything.  Internet is broken.  Yeah - some guy must have taken a hammer and bashed it to bits.  Sorry.  Can't help you.  Call 411 (information) instead.

But they wouldn't, because they didn't want to BOTHER it.  (It used to be a real person that you spoke to, but now it's an automated service, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out how you bother an automated service!)   

The funny thing is I'd sometimes be using the internet when they called, but they didn't know that.   

Didi and Ray weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, so I got away with it, but you might want to tell your father you're much too busy to look up anything, don't have time, and can't help him.

What is he supposed to DO!?   

You don't know - but you're sure he'll figure out something.   

Those calls are going to be annoying enough - you don't need the added hassle of him wailing about his TV, while blaming you for *making* him give up the old one, when it worked just fine and he knew how to use it, so this is ALL YOUR FAULT and you'd BETTER get your butt over there to fix it, NOW!   

These calls will probably be daily, or multiple times, daily, and you'll keep explaining the same things, over and over, but he won't listen and he won't care - he'll just expect you to drop everything and run over to his, for every little thing.   

The kindest thing for yourself (and him, oddly enough), is to let him keep the old TV, and fend off calls about looking stuff up.   

You'll thank yourself later! 

[NumbLotus]

Wow. I, for one, totally missed that the TV thing was a bullet dodged.

[nanotech]

Like £2 for home delivery shopping "not paying that". How on earth is that not more cost effective than me driving 25 miles each way? Honestly....

Latest and greatest. Not sure if it was ever a thing in the USA but UK people will know. Teletext. Basically, a dead slow interactive text thing via your TV. You can get news, weather, sports results etc.
Of course, people just use the internet now so its closing down early next year.

Of course, Dad uses it all the time. Hes been moaning for week. Basically every time I speak to him its moan, moan what am I going to do? Can you phone them? (what?)

He has internet (doesnt use it) because it was cheaper as a package for his phone. So I looked into it. His TV is really old - not even HD which he could do with. So I thought, OK lets get a smart TV, HD, and he can get sports results etc on there. Found a decent not too flashy one - £300. (Bear in mind hes for £40K in the bank).

So I tell him, its as if I told him his house was being repossessed. Spend money? So thats it he'll struggle on without it rather than spend ANY money.
Point is don't nag me CONSTANTLY for weeks then decide its not happening because you're too tight.

I have NEVER met anyone as cheap as my Dad. Honestly. I remember the TV prog "Extreme Cheapskates" (its a US TV series. My Dad could be on there.

OMG I've had the same convo with MY dad! He's devastated because teletext is stopping!
Moaned about it for weeks!
It's his morning routine and he goes back to it through the day!!
He would have the same reaction to spending money on a new TV.
Not sure what he's going to do and I really can't solve it for him!
He could use his mobile and connect to the internet, but he's scared of running up a massive bill. I've explained that he needn't - he just doesn't want to learn anything else! I do get that, but as you say, a new tv with computer access would solve it. They just don't think they should have to move with the times. But we all must.

PS. I've read through the other posts and yes, the TV thing can send you down the rabbit hole! SO I agree, just step back now.
Dad asked me over Christmas if I could sort out the photos on his phone. He wanted one of my mum to be on the lock screen.
I cried ignorance. Truth is, I know how to do it, but if I touch the damn thing I'm liable to get myself incriminated in the future and then forever!
The minute dad one day messes up and deletes an image, aha 😤  that will be my fault!

[p123]

Like £2 for home delivery shopping "not paying that". How on earth is that not more cost effective than me driving 25 miles each way? Honestly....

Latest and greatest. Not sure if it was ever a thing in the USA but UK people will know. Teletext. Basically, a dead slow interactive text thing via your TV. You can get news, weather, sports results etc.
Of course, people just use the internet now so its closing down early next year.

Of course, Dad uses it all the time. Hes been moaning for week. Basically every time I speak to him its moan, moan what am I going to do? Can you phone them? (what?)

He has internet (doesnt use it) because it was cheaper as a package for his phone. So I looked into it. His TV is really old - not even HD which he could do with. So I thought, OK lets get a smart TV, HD, and he can get sports results etc on there. Found a decent not too flashy one - £300. (Bear in mind hes for £40K in the bank).

So I tell him, its as if I told him his house was being repossessed. Spend money? So thats it he'll struggle on without it rather than spend ANY money.
Point is don't nag me CONSTANTLY for weeks then decide its not happening because you're too tight.

I have NEVER met anyone as cheap as my Dad. Honestly. I remember the TV prog "Extreme Cheapskates" (its a US TV series. My Dad could be on there.

OMG I've had the same convo with MY dad! He's devastated because teletext is stopping!
Moaned about it for weeks!
It's his morning routine and he goes back to it through the day!!
He would have the same reaction to spending money on a new TV.
Not sure what he's going to do and I really can't solve it for him!
He could use his mobile and connect to the internet, but he's scared of running up a massive bill. I've explained that he needn't - he just doesn't want to learn anything else! I do get that, but as you say, a new tv with computer access would solve it. They just don't think they should have to move with the times. But we all must.

PS. I've read through the other posts and yes, the TV thing can send you down the rabbit hole! SO I agree, just step back now.
Dad asked me over Christmas if I could sort out the photos on his phone. He wanted one of my mum to be on the lock screen.
I cried ignorance. Truth is, I know how to do it, but if I touch the damn thing I'm liable to get myself incriminated in the future and then forever!
The minute dad one day messes up and deletes an image, aha 😤  that will be my fault!

Yep. He wants me to phone them and complain that "millions" of people must be using teletext. I explained that "nah" I guess not which is why its stopping.

It went from every single conversation, "have you phoned them" and "can I get it another way?" and really doing my head in, to (once I mentioned spending money) "Oh its ok I'll get the sports news on the radio instead". Arrgghhhhh!

Honestly, anything as long as its free. This week hes trying to cancel his cleaner (again!). The place, honestly, is a health hazard. Never use a cup or use the toliet if you can help it (remember trainspotting the film). I have to drive past tesco and ask my little girl if she wants a wee BEFORE we get to grampys!

Anyway, his cleaner is his cousins daughters. Comes every 2 weeks. Its clean for two days then its minging again. I feel sorry for the poor woman. It eats Dad up that hes spending money because "its not dirty and its only me so it doesn't matter". Constantly wants to cancel.

So far I've said, you can't Dad, shes family, relies on the income so its not fair on her. He will cancel eventually though I know to save that £20.

[lkdrymom]

That whole TV thing brings back memories.  My father would call me at work with the big crisis....the remote isn't working.  9 times out of 10 it had to be reprogrammed so I printed out the instructions with the 5 digit code he needed.  Nope it would be EASIER if  I left work and came and did it for him.  How is that easier?  Everything was about me doing it for him.

[tob-ler-one]

Yep. He wants me to phone them and complain that "millions" of people must be using teletext. I explained that "nah" I guess not which is why its stopping.

It went from every single conversation, "have you phoned them" and "can I get it another way?"

I'm guessing your Dad likes the "convenience" and "ease-of-use" of Teletext, or maybe he likes reading white text on a black background. But as much as I think that almost everything about the 90s is good and should be brought back, I doubt if even 10,000 people are using it regularly (not including Subtitles).

Does he have a DAB radio? All sorts to keep him occupied on one of those.

[nanotech]

Actually P123 your dad's a bit worse than mine on the whole teletext thing! Mine has accepted it but grudgingly. He hasn't asked me to ring up and complain about it!
I wish my dad would get a cleaner though. He is still ok to do a bit himself, or so he thinks. My sis helps him once a fortnight. I always see that ground-in dust though. He never opens windows. Filfthy bin and drips all down the kitchen cupboards and all over the fridge. I do the bin and cupboards when I go as I worry about hygiene. There's usually a rancid kitchen cloth which I stick in hot soapy water. I have to do that sneakily as he rations hot water. Younger sis got told off for sniffing a dank cloth then throwing it in the washing machine WITHOUT ASKING DAD.     There was " nothing wrong with it" according to dad,  and even though he could have added more washing, unless the machine was stuffed to bursting he " wasn't putting a wash on because it's costly."

I have to do all this  surreptitious stuff when he's not looking, because he doesn't see any problem with the kitchen. He thinks it's beautifully clean. The bin OMG is usually growing penicillin on the lid.
I pretend I'm makin* a cuppa and get it done. 

Brother ( UNPD) has tried to rope me into the heavier cleaning, as has younger sis. They, on orders of dad, always seem to want me to move furniture and dust underneath , when the more viewable dust is there gathering, staring at me, and is surely first priority? I'm all for thorough cleaning, but first things first, keep the surfaces clean!

I've a back condition whereby I can't move things like beds and I have very bad arthritis in my knees. I've told younger sis that I don't even move stuff in my own house- hubby does that.
Dad needs a cleaner! I'm not the cleaner!

They all think that because I go to the gym there's nothing wrong with me. None of them go to the gym or an exercise class. They think it's for the super fit!
I've offered to teach dad to swim ( long story) but he won't do anything he can't be the best at. He knows that at 87, he can't be top. Top in class at school and very good at sport, just no opportunity to learn to swim.
They don't understand that the gym offers activities that are pitched  to my condition. They see my going as testimony to my fitness to CLEAN!

The gym keeps me flexible and stops me from seizing up completely!

Housework really, really  effs me up these days.
I don't have a cleaner. I can clean my house but I have to pace myself. No such thing as blitzing the house in one day any more!
I might have to have a cleaner in a few years. If dad is still alive there will be some sarky comments about it being a "waste of money," how "your mum never needed one, she did it all herself,"
( I get compared to mum like this regularly. Mum didn't have arthritis or stenosis of spine. Plus, it's just not very nice. It's telling me I'm either lazy or 🤥 lying.)

One thing is certain.I won't expect my children to do it! 

UNPD bro is very disappointed in me . He's pressured me for years to have dad live with us. Nope.
My back diagnosis in 2015  has kept him at bay recently. He can't argue with an MRI scan! He tries tho.
But  neither can , I and it's a defence against their  gaslighting of me that I'm really fine, and  there's nothing  really wrong with me!

My brother doesn't want dad to get a cleaner. He's petrified of outsiders who might steal from dad, or worse, be sweet to him and get him to change his will! It's all about the money!

[lkdrymom]

I was out of work for a few months and my father assumed this meant I could come down every day and drive him around.  When I finally pointed out I had no money coming in and could not afford to put the gas in the car to drive the 20 miles to his place he got all offended.  Did I really expect him to pay me to drive him around???  Funny thing is, if one of my kids took him to the store he'd give them $10 for gas.

[p123]

Yep its crazy with Dad how things go from URGENT URGENT URGENT to "I'll managed without" when you've got to spend money.....

I found out his TV remote was half working. He didn't tell me. It was knackered. So I got him a new one (sky remote) for a fiver off ebay.
So I said "Dad why didnt u tell me?". Dad - "oh I thought it would be expensive". ITs all about the money.

[p123]

Made progress yesterday on myself...
Hes been moaning about his electic razor for weeks. Went to the shops with brothers wife. Dad being dad he bought the cheapest one there and its wasnt good. So hes moaning he wants to fix his old one.
I offered to get him a new one from amazon - £40.

So hes happy now hes half-fixed his old one. Not properly but hes over the moon that its half working.
I spoke on the phone and switched off to him.

If you want to go and buy the cheapest thing in future and it turns out to be rubbish - I DON'T CARE
If you want to penny pinch and make do with a half working razor - I DON'T CARE

I've basically left it at "Oh well let me know if you want me to order one".
So my involvement will be to switch off when he moans its broke again and then spend 2 mins ordering a new one. Other than that I DONT CARE.

[lkdrymom]

I think your father enjoys fussing about things. My father was the same way.  It was almost like he was mad I fixed something because he couldn't fuss about it anymore.  I remember taking care of something for him and he absolutely refused to believe it was done....was I sure it was taken care of?  Maybe I should call again? OMG!  At that point I told him if he wanted to keep dealing with it he was free to do so but I was not about to redo the same work I did last week.

[M0009803]

P123,

You seem to be going around in circles with your dad.

I suggest that you keep a spreadhseet of all the "expenses" he shunts back at you, instead of paying for it himself.  Also, add the time you devote to his foibles as well.

I think that once you see in a spreadhseet how much time and money is going into his bottomless pit of need, it will be much easier to detach from him.  Right now, its basically death by a thousand cuts, so you keep going because the time/expenditure of these instances is not significant.  But in the cummulative sense, they add up.

[p123]

P123,

You seem to be going around in circles with your dad.

I suggest that you keep a spreadhseet of all the "expenses" he shunts back at you, instead of paying for it himself.  Also, add the time you devote to his foibles as well.

I think that once you see in a spreadhseet how much time and money is going into his bottomless pit of need, it will be much easier to detach from him.  Right now, its basically death by a thousand cuts, so you keep going because the time/expenditure of these instances is not significant.  But in the cummulative sense, they add up.

Not so much expense as time to be honest. He will pay me for things....

But as I've said its URGENT got to be done now. So I look into it for him. Suddenly "it costs money?" then its "Oh I dont need it". Then like this, I get a 20 min conversation because hes so pleased with himself at saving £20. I just cannot be bothered.

[nanotech]

My dad promised to take my son to an important golf tournament. He promised this in front of some people he wanted to impress( they were doctors). He positively beamed it round the room and then lapped up the thanks from my son.

A few weeks later he backed out because he found out that " pensioners had to pay full price!" He changed his mind in a heartbeat. Cue several moany phone calls to me, berating the organisers. Poor me, poor me!  It was daylight robbery, didn't I agree?
Not really dad.
At no point did he say sorry to my disappointed son, who was looking forward to the golf, but even more to spending time with his granddad on his own. I think it had happened about one time before in his life
After that my son told me he now understood where I was coming from about granddad. I'd only  been Out of the FOG about a year, and my kids were still in it.

If dad is paying, it's the set menu at the local carvery / pub or similar. Or it's wherever my UNPD bro has got coupons for!
Even then he will look at the bill and say he will pay for a percentage of it, and will 'take donations'. Two of my siblings are always flat broke, and UnPD bro is very mean, so
it's me and my hubby who take the strain at these times.
When we take him out just us though, of course we always pay. We are happy to, but he will always suggest an upmarket restaurant. All this is fine, he's an old man after all- it's just when it's all the time, you start to feel a bit used and abused!
However, we just don't do the family parties any more. I've listened to kris Godinez and she made me realise I didn't have to attend them!

[WomanInterrupted]

P123 wrote:

But as I've said its URGENT got to be done now. So I look into it for him. Suddenly "it costs money?" then its "Oh I dont need it". Then like this, I get a 20 min conversation because hes so pleased with himself at saving £20. I just cannot be bothered.

You know the things your dad is moaning about will cost money, so there's your answer:  don't do any research and save your time! 

Medium Chill him instead with, "Gosh, that's a shame..." or, "Sorry to hear it..." - and change the subject. 

If  he  asks why you don't seem to care, you might consider telling him the truth:  "Dad, you moan about things not working, I do research, tell you how much the item is to replace, and you shoot it down, saying it's too expensive, so I thought I'd just cut that part out and get right to you living with and making do with the broken item."   

Can't hurt, can it?   

You're not being mean, cruel, harsh or cold - you're just pointing out the obvious facts and getting to the end a lot faster and with FAR less frustration on your part. 

If he says something like, "Fine, I won't tell you when anything breaks..."   

Stick to, "Thank you.  I really appreciate that..." - and maybe end the call on something of a high note. 

Sometimes they give us all the material we need to work with - and we just have to realize it.

Didi was big on me researching holistic cures for her many ills, paying me back (most of the time), and not using the stuff I'd procured for her, for reasons. 

I think she just liked keeping me busy, thinking about her problems and didn't want any of them helped, managed, made more bearable or maybe even cured.   

The stuff would sit on the kitchen table, or maybe the floor by Her Waify Majesty's kitchen chair, and would stay there - or it might be moved to the hoarded-up floor of the Dollhouse Room and chucked in a pile. 

One day I just started kicking everything back to her doctor or pharmacist and never told her the truth, because she'd never accept ANY responsibility for herself. 

She gasped the first time I did it, then got ANGRY and started slamming the phone down, but by then, I DNGAF.   

NO F's to G. 

It's a LOT easier to detach and set boundaries when you get to this point - a good boundary for you would be NO RESEARCH into things that will be rejected as expensive.

Another boundary might be you ARE having the groceries delivered, and that's that.

Another might be NO visits to the ER or hospital, if he starts acting out - and NO, you will NOT drive him home.

See what I mean - they become MUCH more clear and MUCH easier to implement - and enforce - when the time comes.

[nanotech]

I agree with WI it is easier not to care once you start not to respond to their requests. They look tempting because in the past we thought we could help. We've been brought up to believe that their happiness is our responsibility.
I nearly ended up taking my dad round various rest homes till he let slip  early in in the talks about it, that he wouldn't move anywhere unless it was ' exactly like home' .
He reiterated - it had to be EXACTLY like home!
That's impossible.   Ahh then I realised he was just after the chance of getting me to take him here there and everywhere  and then he would reject each one  with that smile he does, and tell me why in sordid detail over his many  treat-lunch after the visits!
All. Those. Rejections! How he would enjoy that!
So.....
I stopped offering!