Mother in denial over father’s cancer

[Spirit in the sky]

Just had a conversation with my mother and my father's health. He has terminal lung cancer and was given a year to live in August. He has another appointment on Monday and his calcium levels are up which suggests the cancer has spread.

So I said to my mother, we need to start making some arrangements as my father's health is getting worse and maybe we need to think about moving his bed downstairs. With a shocked face she asked, why would we do that ? So I explained that his mobility is getting worse and it would save her running up and down the stairs if he needs anything. I was told very plainly that we were not having this conversation, his health is not getting worse and why am I deliberately trying to upset her.

Obviously she is in denial, she refuses to read any of the information the hospital gave us about what to expect. Of course my father's not helping himself, I have suggested he speak to a counsellor but he'd rather go on and on about there being no point.

[bloomie]

Spirit in the sky - I am so sorry your family is experiencing this. It is so difficult to find that line of advocacy and respecting the wishes of our aging parents in complicated situations like this. And then we throw in dysfunctional patterns of living and communicating and the denial your mother is insisting on and it is a lot on your plate.

I was thinking... would it be possible to have a home health evaluation and have a neutral 3rd party make some of these suggestions in terms of the changes needed to accommodate your father's changing needs?

[Spirit in the sky]

Spirit in the sky - I am so sorry your family is experiencing this. It is so difficult to find that line of advocacy and respecting the wishes of our aging parents in complicated situations like this. And then we throw in dysfunctional patterns of living and communicating and the denial your mother is insisting on and it is a lot on your plate.

I was thinking... would it be possible to have a home health evaluation and have a neutral 3rd party make some of these suggestions in terms of the changes needed to accommodate your father's changing needs?

I'm hoping as my dad's illness progresses he will either move to a care home or hospice. They really are so much better apart, when he was in hospital they were both 'happier' although neither will admit it. Obviously she won't take the responsibility of caring for him at home so I think he'll be better with proper assistance and a calm environment.

[bloomie]

I'm hoping as my dad's illness progresses he will either move to a care home or hospice. They really are so much better apart, when he was in hospital they were both 'happier' although neither will admit it. Obviously she won't take the responsibility of caring for him at home so I think he'll be better with proper assistance and a calm environment.

Spirit - that is a really interesting and important observation. I found this to be exactly true with my own parents and in laws as well. I hope that this kind of care and respite will be coming very soon.

After just a few weeks of time in a rehab facility where the atmosphere was calm and his needs were the focus, most likely for the first time in decades, my enPD?fil was so different and very open. It was a time where I saw a completely different side to him and he could have honest, hard, open conversations and own his stuff. I think in great part because he had some space and privacy to speak his own truth without censure and the disapproval of uPDmil who is an extremely rigid and controlling type.

With both my parents and in law's the dynamic between them when they were together was corrosive and not conducive to anyone's healing. Even their own.

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Bloomie,

At the minute my Dad is up and about and can look after himself he just chooses not to do so. My mother is in one of her letting him get on with it moods, which means she's punishing him for not doing as he's told.

She actually gets really annoyed when I do anything to help him. She expects me to side with her but those days are long gone. I have no problem being kind because I believe everyone deserves kindness and sometimes the most ungrateful people are the ones that need it most. I'm learning not to be effected by his energy so I can pop in, make him a snack, ignore her sulks and his moans.

With everything it's about balance and doing what I believe is right.

I'm hoping as my dad's illness progresses he will either move to a care home or hospice. They really are so much better apart, when he was in hospital they were both 'happier' although neither will admit it. Obviously she won't take the responsibility of caring for him at home so I think he'll be better with proper assistance and a calm environment.

Spirit - that is a really interesting and important observation. I found this to be exactly true with my own parents and in laws as well. I hope that this kind of care and respite will be coming very soon.

After just a few weeks of time in a rehab facility where the atmosphere was calm and his needs were the focus, most likely for the first time in decades, my enPD?fil was so different and very open. It was a time where I saw a completely different side to him and he could have honest, hard, open conversations and own his stuff. I think in great part because he had some space and privacy to speak his own truth without censure and the disapproval of uPDmil who is an extremely rigid and controlling type.

With both my parents and in law's the dynamic between them when they were together was corrosive and not conducive to anyone's healing. Even their own.

[bloomie]

Spirit what a grounded and wise way to hold boundaries and have balance and not engage in nonsense. I have been quite vulnerable to emotion contagion myself over the years with those I love and learning to hold internal boundaries and not be affected has been an area of work my own life.

You said something on another thread of yours that I keep thinking about.. You mentioned in reference to your mother's denial that your mother is so controlling she is not going to even let your father die or be ill... I am paraphrasing and so excuse my poor representation of what you said, but I have never put together in quite that way the relationship between a highly controlling individual and denial even in the face of grave illness. Very helpful insight and has to be so very hard to navigate!

[Spirit in the sky]

My friend told me the same thing happened with her parents. Her mother had cancer and her very controlling father acted as if nothing was happening. He wouldn't accept or acknowledge her suffering even when she was having chemo. He just carried on with his life as if nothing was happening.

I had a bit of a wobble today, and thought it would be an idea to get them together and explain how uncomfortable I felt with the situation. But I knew I'd cry and then they would start blaming each other for upsetting me and my mum would start crying and go into melodramatic mode and it would all be about her as usual.

So I had a little cry to myself, laughed at how ridiculous the idea was and once again reminded myself my feelings haven't mattered for 47 years why would they now. Saying that I do think my Dad would care and really what's the point upsetting him. Someone has to be strong and act like a responsible adult, I know they love me in their own unconventional way.

And more and more each day I'm learning to love and appreciate myself. If anything these challenges have shown me how resilient I am, how resilient I have always been even as a child. I haven't allowed their behaviour to shut me down emotionally, I still have compassion and empathy and I'm learning everyone is a victim of circumstance but you don't have stay in the fear energy.

Spirit what a grounded and wise way to hold boundaries and have balance and not engage in nonsense. I have been quite vulnerable to emotion contagion myself over the years with those I love and learning to hold internal boundaries and not be affected has been an area of work my own life.

You said something on another thread of yours that I keep thinking about.. You mentioned in reference to your mother's denial that your mother is so controlling she is not going to even let your father die or be ill... I am paraphrasing and so excuse my poor representation of what you said, but I have never put together in quite that way the relationship between a highly controlling individual and denial even in the face of grave illness. Very helpful insight and has to be so very hard to navigate!

[Groundhog Day]

My F was diagnosed with prostate cancer 10 years ago. The day he was told, she announced to her sibblings that their house was for sale since he was diagnosed. One month after, BPDm started to tell her storyf as to how it was having to take care of a sick husband and that nobody gives a hot about the caregiver. My F never complained and was never a complainer. She thrived to have people pity her.

While he was having his treatments which was 6 hours drive away. She would go with him and then drive him back to their hometown for Friday afternoon because she wanted to go dancing on Saturday night. He, of course had to go eventhough he could barely stand until one evening at the dance hall wanted him to dance and denied since he was too weak. She went on the dance floor and proceded to dance by herself and said she would be a good widower.

She only went to the hospital for his treatment with him so that she could brag as to how good of a wife she was. I remember my F's feet were swollen and he could not wear his shoes so I bought him Crocs. She was angry because it did not look good. I told her, it's a gift from me so you have nothing to say about it.

He passed suddenly 4 years ago at the hospital from sepsis shock. I am thankful that the evening before his death he had a good talk with his younger brother without my M being there and butting in the conversation.

I do hope that you can have a good talk privately with your father without your M around. I did not have this opportunity and I wish to this day we could have connected in someway. But M wad always in the picture and never allowed for F to have or show feelings towards his children. Stay strong and do what's best for your F. Maybe by moving his bedroom downtstairs yourself and deal with her wrath after everything is done.

[WomanInterrupted]

Spirit wrote:  So I had a little cry to myself, laughed at how ridiculous the idea was and once again reminded myself my feelings haven't mattered for 47 years why would they now.

I had an honest-to-God belly laugh at that statement because it's so profoundly TRUE!   

Why on earth would we think they'd start listening now?  But sometimes we make that mistake and it's the wise person - you - who catches yourself before you have yet another pointless conversation that will end exactly the same as you predicted. 

I hope you're able to have a talk with  your dad about Hospice in-home care, or going to a Hospice facility.  If it's too soon for that, a nursing home or rehab facility might be in his best interest - he'll get the care he needs and your mom won't have to worry about being a caregiver, or thinking up ways to try to punish your father. 

That one nearly did my head in, from your other thread.  You offering to get him coffee sent your mother into a tizzy because she's angry and doesn't think he deserved it.   

That sound so much like unBPD Didi that it just blows my mind.  She was so angry, bitter and vindictive when *she* wasn't the star of the medical drama, and somebody might actually expect her to act as some sort of caregiver - even if it was to bring a box of tissues from the next room.  Oh, the nerve!  WHO did they think she was!? 

That was *my job!*  (Except I always managed to be MIA!)   

I think it would be best to get your dad out of a potentially abusive situation - you may have to to speak to a 3rd party to get the ball rolling - your  dad's doctor, Hospice or even APS and say words like, "My mother is behaving in a hostile and vindictive manner toward my father, who is dying.  Not only is she in denial, but she's become abusive and resentful and is trying to punish him, by withholding base needs.  I think he needs  to be moved from the environment to a suitable facility as soon as possible.  Can you help him?"   

If you want to use that, g'head.      And if you need to write it down and recite it, like a script, that's perfectly acceptable!   

You said they're better apart - and who knows.  Maybe she'll be like Groundhog Day's mother and practice at being a good widow.   

A former friend's mom did that, too - she was dating a few weeks after her husband was buried, much to the anger and shock of her adult DD - and all mention of her deceased husband just stopped, like he'd never been there at all. 

Another reason to get your dad out of there is so YOU have room to breathe and think of you, first. 

Your dad will be getting the care he needs, and now you'll just have to get your mom off your back, because if she's anything like unBPD Didi, she's going to expect your company 100% of the time, with NO time left for you - or to visit your dad.   

No - you'll be a traitor if you do that!  And spending time on your own?  Oh, she'll tell you, you can do anything you want LATER, when SHE doesn't need you - and believe me when I tell you, later never comes.   

Once your dad is in a safe environment, I think I'd put up some *very* firm boundaries about being involve with your mom, in any way, shape, or form.  Too bad if she thinks you're being mean or disloyal - she's an adult and can take care of herself, and if she can't, she can pay an aide or move into AL. 

Even before Didi started failing, she just wanted me to wait on her, like a servant - and it's possible your mom has that fate in store for you, too. 

You can avoid it like I did, with boundaries and *refusing* to do a thing for her.  I was always busy - with no elaboration on what I was busy with, so she couldn't poke holes in it or tell me to do it later. 

It's a very real concern - that the surviving parent may try to become clingy as all hell.  UnNPD Ray did - he thought that just because I was dehoarding the house  - which was an unsafe death-trap for an 85-year-old man who wouldn't use a cane but had severe balance issues - I was there, regularly, even though I'd refuse to do household tasks with a rather brusque, "I'm here for the hoard, dad - not to make your lunch."   

He still thought that meant I'd be his slave -and didn't understand when I went dark, tried to force the issue, and got himself declared incompetent.   

In some ways, I think it's better if they take the Merry Widow/Widower routine out on the town - or to lunch at the Salvation Army, which seems to be the "it" spot for seniors around here - find somebody and pair off, fairly soon. 

It's hard to watch, but it  keeps them busy and off your back.  Your mom won't have time to drive you crazy if it's all about her again, and she's dangling several men on the hook. 

And maybe you can even go NC and she won't notice.   

[Spirit in the sky]

Plot twist!

My dad showed his true colours at the hospital. I think my mum has just had enough of his aggressive and self obsessed behaviour. I understand now why she's dying to protect herself, he's very crafty at being all humble when I'm there and playing the victim.

He reduced me to tears on the way to the hospital and the following day ( my day off ) after all I did for him. He wanted to know why I hadn't got his new medication. There really is two sides to every story and I'm seeing him in a new light, because he's not getting the attention from my mum, he's treating me like a slave now.

[Adrianna]

Honestly you are getting it from both sides. Sounds to me like there is no peace with either of them. It's natural to want to see a relationship as simple as an abuser and an abused but reality is that they could both be abusive to each other. They are both victims and abusers.

I know it's one of the hardest lessons to learn that our feelings don't matter to them, never did, and you know they won't now. The fact that you were ill after spending time with your father speaks volumes. I have to avoid my father as much as possible. I know that I really can't expect even simple kindness from him, although here and there he will throw me some crumbs of it, just to continue the toxic dance of me hoping he will change, but I know he won't.  He is who he is. I also can relate to the feeling of embarrassment when out with them. Their behavior can be so outrageous that you wonder what people must be thinking. My father can lay on the charm though when needed and can sometimes fool people into thinking he's great. After one stay in rehab, while getting ready to take him home, his nurse (nice guy) came up to me and said "your father is a wonderful person." I said "I'm glad you had that experience with him." Of course my experience was the opposite. My father likes this nurse and he catered to my father. It really added to my cognitive dissonance at the time, thinking wow he's nice to this guy, what gives here? But I'm reality it was because the nurse was serving him to his satisfaction. I don't do that! And won't. Ever. I'm at a point now where the next time he acts up I'm likely to say "why do you have to be such an ass?" but of course that would be flipped on me. There's no winning with them, no consideration from them for us, no concern for our needs. Honestly they just don't care about us, which is a hard pill to swallow. You are highly empathetic as many of us are. We had to be to survive in the toxic environment we grew up in, had to be on alert for everyone else's needs while ignoring our own, because we were taught our needs and feelings don't matter, only theirs do.  It's a trauma response to develop this level of empathy. Only way to win is to disengage and stay out of their game. Is there a way your father can get to the hospital without you being involved? Senior bus etc? Another family member?

[lkdrymom]

In a way this was a good experience.  You got to see the truth.  My father used to use my mother and I as buffers when his mother visited.  Then he had to spend the weekend alone with her.  He was in shock! She treated him terribly.

Now my father pulls the same stuff.  Sweet old man to most everyone.  He isn't nasty to me cause he knows I will walk, but he is very manipulative.  And he is really obvious about it.  He thinks he is being sly but I can see what he is doing from a mile away. I was actually getting insult that he thought I was so dumb I would fall for what he was trying to pull.

[bloomie]

Spirit - there something incredibly uncomfortable in witnessing the dysfunctional, often toxic, dance that is our parent's relationship. I am really sorry your father unleashed his ugliness on you. So undeserved and revealing and it hurts.

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Adrianna,

I told him in never going through that again. Either he has a home visit from the doctor or he gets an community ambulance d to take him.

Although he said the doctor was useless and he's not going back, it was a waste of time according to him.

Honestly you are getting it from both sides. Sounds to me like there is no peace with either of them. It's natural to want to see a relationship as simple as an abuser and an abused but reality is that they could both be abusive to each other. They are both victims and abusers.

I know it's one of the hardest lessons to learn that our feelings don't matter to them, never did, and you know they won't now. The fact that you were ill after spending time with your father speaks volumes. I have to avoid my father as much as possible. I know that I really can't expect even simple kindness from him, although here and there he will throw me some crumbs of it, just to continue the toxic dance of me hoping he will change, but I know he won't.  He is who he is. I also can relate to the feeling of embarrassment when out with them. Their behavior can be so outrageous that you wonder what people must be thinking. My father can lay on the charm though when needed and can sometimes fool people into thinking he's great. After one stay in rehab, while getting ready to take him home, his nurse (nice guy) came up to me and said "your father is a wonderful person." I said "I'm glad you had that experience with him." Of course my experience was the opposite. My father likes this nurse and he catered to my father. It really added to my cognitive dissonance at the time, thinking wow he's nice to this guy, what gives here? But I'm reality it was because the nurse was serving him to his satisfaction. I don't do that! And won't. Ever. I'm at a point now where the next time he acts up I'm likely to say "why do you have to be such an ass?" but of course that would be flipped on me. There's no winning with them, no consideration from them for us, no concern for our needs. Honestly they just don't care about us, which is a hard pill to swallow. You are highly empathetic as many of us are. We had to be to survive in the toxic environment we grew up in, had to be on alert for everyone else's needs while ignoring our own, because we were taught our needs and feelings don't matter, only theirs do.  It's a trauma response to develop this level of empathy. Only way to win is to disengage and stay out of their game. Is there a way your father can get to the hospital without you being involved? Senior bus etc? Another family member?

[Spirit in the sky]

Oh yes everyone thinks my dad is the life and soul of the party.
He just keeps his bad behaviour for his family.

In a way this was a good experience.  You got to see the truth.  My father used to use my mother and I as buffers when his mother visited.  Then he had to spend the weekend alone with her.  He was in shock! She treated him terribly.

Now my father pulls the same stuff.  Sweet old man to most everyone.  He isn't nasty to me cause he knows I will walk, but he is very manipulative.  And he is really obvious about it.  He thinks he is being sly but I can see what he is doing from a mile away. I was actually getting insult that he thought I was so dumb I would fall for what he was trying to pull.

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Bloomie,

Maybe I needed to experience it first hand, although when I think back he's always been like this. I felt a bit guilty judging my mother but she has her issues too, although she does try, everything is just so complicated.

Spirit - there something incredibly uncomfortable in witnessing the dysfunctional, often toxic, dance that is our parent's relationship. I am really sorry your father unleashed his ugliness on you. So undeserved and revealing and it hurts.

[NumbLotus]

"Punishing" your father is still messed up. I don't think your mother gets a free pass here.

Healthy: "I'm not at your father's beck and call and he's perfectly capable of making his own tea."

Not healthy: "Don't make him tea because he needs to suffer."

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks everyone for the support.

I understand why my mother isn't giving in to my dad's self pity, although I don't think she's going about it right. But I can't judge I only spent a few hours with him and I was physically ill with stress.

She definitely has her own issues and I do find her difficult at times. I've been reading about The Mother Wound and really it's time for me to take responsibility for how I allow my parents to treat me. It's a steep learning curve but hopefully I'm making progress.