My Mother says...only weak people need anti depressants!

Started by sarandro, January 10, 2020, 07:13:09 AM

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sarandro

I have realised that over the years, before I was Out of the FOG and went NC with unNM, that whenever I tried to confide in her, she would dismiss my feelings and fragile mental state.
When I was diagnosed with depression and needed to take meds for it, she would tell me that only weak people took them and it was shameful to talk about yourself.
This made me feel guilty and wrong, and for many years, I did not take the meds I needed, just to please her.
This meant that I was wide open to criticism and shaming by my FOO...
Oh, Sarandro is mental...
Nothing I would ever do or say from then on was taken seriously.

It took a long long time before I realised that my FOO...unNM in particular was the catalyst to my dark feelings and twisted outlook on life.

Being NC now and finally taking the meds I really need, I am feeling so very much better.
No negative judgement on me or what I need for my mental health.

Now things are so much clearer, I realised I longed for her support and understanding and this was why I became so low. Nowadays I am my own person...my own mum...my own best friend.

I love myself now, without guilt or shame..yes I am broken and damaged, but I know I can rise above her attitude towards me and become my best self

FogDawg

Quote from: sarandro on January 10, 2020, 07:13:09 AMThis meant that I was wide open to criticism and shaming by my FOO...
Oh, Sarandro is mental...
Nothing I would ever do or say from then on was taken seriously.

It took a long long time before I realised that my FOO...unNM in particular was the catalyst to my dark feelings and twisted outlook on life.

I can relate all too well. It is pathetic how those who are supposed to care will instead choose to kick a person who is already down. When family throws it in one's face that their thinking is off and utilizes the gaslighting method, it is wrong as can be. I am glad that you've gotten better and have come to accept yourself. Your tale is inspiring.

moglow

Tell your mother I said .. Well, maybe not. She can have whatever opinion she wants but you don't have to listen or subscribe to it. I learned to severely limit the information I share with mine. It's just not worth the heartburn - and believe me, you deserve better. Work on not responding to or absorbing her blather as much as you can. None of her negativity has *anything* to do with you.  :bigwink:
"She had not known the weight until she felt the freedom." ~Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter
"Expectations are disappointments under construction." ~Capn Spanky, The Nook circa 2005ish

sarandro

Ha Ha...she says a lot of other stuff too...now I'm not listening!!!!

GettingOOTF

I have come to see that my FOO and many of the people o chose to let into my life didn’t support or encourage me in anything that would improve my life.

Often they would actively discourage me from doing things that I now see were good for me.

Some people are threatened by other’s success, health, happiness etc. because they don’t know how to break their patterns and get their things for themselves. They hold others back and keep them down at their level.

I’m glad but you are doing what’s best for you and that you are seeing your own worth.

April86

I remember when my severely mentally ill mother was refusing antidepressants given by her primary care Dr. I encouraged her that it might make her feel better as its helped me manage my bipolar and cptsd. She shouted "why do I need pills? I'm not crazy! I'm not out here being crazy like..." like me i guess huh?

Its unbelievable how they wont think twice about hurting their children, just so they maintain their lie that there's nothing wrong with them. Going NC made me realize that their hurtful words are out of desperation of not wanting to look at themselves.

I wish you the best in your journey


FogDawg

Quote from: April86 on January 11, 2020, 08:34:47 AMIts unbelievable how they wont think twice about hurting their children, just so they maintain their lie that there's nothing wrong with them. Going NC made me realize that their hurtful words are out of desperation of not wanting to look at themselves.

It truly is nuts how they can consider themselves completely infallible. We should all be so perfect :doh:

Psuedonym

Mine has a slightly different spin on this. She has taken every drug under the sun because of her 'horrible, awful childhood'. When I finally told her after many years that I had been diagnosed with long term clinical depression that had existed since I was a kid, her responses were a) well what do you have to be depressed about? (cue the best mother in the world speech) and b) well, I guess everybody in the world is depressed then.

:stars:

BettyGray

Sounds like flat out projection to me. Actually, people who reject help are the weak ones.

I wish I had never told my  Nmom I had depression and was taking meds. She was always quite cold about it - when I needed her warmth and support, she was indifferent. That was my first clue that I was going to have to deal with it on my own. That I should not tell her everything.

One thing she used to throw in my face was if I said anything that seemed too independent , strong or contradictory- "are you taking your meds?" Translation: I am threatened. You must be off your meds because you're not fulfilling the subservient role I carved out for you. You're standing up for yourself and I don't like it one bit. So I will gaslight and undermine you to beat you back into submission. They really panic when they sense that we are onto them.

FogDawg

Quote from: Liz1018 on January 25, 2020, 09:29:30 AM
Actually, people who reject help are the weak ones.

Not everything is clear-cut and I have to disagree with this remark. Some people have their reasons for not wanting to be on medication, such as already feeling enough like a zombie or worrying that it will exacerbate suicidal thoughts and push them over the edge. Therapy is not guaranteed to work, or can even make the person worse, as multiple members here have attested to at points. Additionally, figure in trust issues and it does not make opening up to someone easy at all; when a person has been shown repeatedly by those who were supposed to be there for them that they do not matter, there is often no way that they are going to believe that they are safe confiding in a total stranger.

blues_cruise

Quote from: sarandro on January 10, 2020, 07:13:09 AMWhen I was diagnosed with depression and needed to take meds for it, she would tell me that only weak people took them and it was shameful to talk about yourself.

I think this is an increasingly dated mentality among some of those in the older generation. What people with personality disorders usually don't see, refuse to see, is that taking medication for depression makes a person so much stronger by far than an ignorant person who instead chooses to cope with the painful feelings triggered by their poor mental health via shaming and being abusive towards other people.

Quote from: sarandro on January 10, 2020, 07:13:09 AMBeing NC now and finally taking the meds I really need, I am feeling so very much better.
No negative judgement on me or what I need for my mental health.

I'm so glad for you. :hug: I think no contact does give us the much needed head space we need to figure out what's best for us without any toxic influence distorting our thoughts. uNF used to mock my symptoms of panic and when I chose to distance myself from him he went around saying that I was mentally ill and didn't know how to talk to people. Funnily enough, the symptoms of which have greatly improved since removing him from my life!
"You are not what has happened to you. You are what you choose to become." - Carl Gustav Jung

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." - Maya Angelou

Pepin

This sounds like my next door neighbor.  She works in the mental health field only for the prestige of being called Doc.  Kris Godinez warns about these PD types who think they know better whether it is someone who works in mental health or not.  Keep your health info to yourself.

StayWithMe

Quote from: FogDawg on January 25, 2020, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: Liz1018 on January 25, 2020, 09:29:30 AM
Actually, people who reject help are the weak ones.

Not everything is clear-cut and I have to disagree with this remark. Some people have their reasons for not wanting to be on medication, such as already feeling enough like a zombie or worrying that it will exacerbate suicidal thoughts and push them over the edge. Therapy is not guaranteed to work, or can even make the person worse, as multiple members here have attested to at points. Additionally, figure in trust issues and it does not make opening up to someone easy at all; when a person has been shown repeatedly by those who were supposed to be there for them that they do not matter, there is often no way that they are going to believe that they are safe confiding in a total stranger.

I have to agree with this.  A couple of therapists over the years make me wonder which were they were on.

The last therapist I had made the suggestion that someone with whom I had a difficult situation with I should invite to lunch and have a chat.  Ok, if I were to go with that suggestion, that opens up the need to ask a whole load of new questions.  How should I ask this person out?  How should I feel if they turn down the offer?  Am I responsible to pay for lunch?  See, we haven't even gotten to the reason, the meat of why I would even suggest to someone with whom I am having a difficult relationship to meet for lunch anyway.

As I was asking these follow up questions, my therapist to whom I pay money to be my personal adviser and advocate, said, "you asked me a question and I gave you my answer."  I told her that I paid her for her time and I expected her to be my advocate.  That suggested that I do something specific required several steps and I needed guidance each step of the way.

I can't believe that therapists can be so f---- short sighted.

The first question to ask is "what should I do if the person in question turns down the offer to meet for lunch/dinner/ coffee/ whatever?  And what reason should I give for meeting up when we were never friends and are having a less than positive experience with that person.


doglady

Quote from: blues_cruise on January 27, 2020, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: sarandro on January 10, 2020, 07:13:09 AMWhen I was diagnosed with depression and needed to take meds for it, she would tell me that only weak people took them and it was shameful to talk about yourself.

I think this is an increasingly dated mentality among some of those in the older generation. What people with personality disorders usually don't see, refuse to see, is that taking medication for depression makes a person so much stronger by far than an ignorant person who instead chooses to cope with the painful feelings triggered by their poor mental health via shaming and being abusive towards other people.

Quote from: sarandro on January 10, 2020, 07:13:09 AMBeing NC now and finally taking the meds I really need, I am feeling so very much better.
No negative judgement on me or what I need for my mental health.

I'm so glad for you. :hug: I think no contact does give us the much needed head space we need to figure out what's best for us without any toxic influence distorting our thoughts. uNF used to mock my symptoms of panic and when I chose to distance myself from him he went around saying that I was mentally ill and didn't know how to talk to people. Funnily enough, the symptoms of which have greatly improved since removing him from my life!

This is a really important point from Blues Cruise.
My two cents for what it's worth: I now realize I felt sad from the time I could walk. I experienced what I now know to be untreated depression throughout my childhood, teen years and much of my early adulthood. I was the family scapegoat and couldn't understand why no one liked me. All I knew is that stuff really made me sad. Gee, I wonder what the connection was.

I tried antidepressants over a few periods of difficulty and they worked very well for me. I have also used anti-anxiety medication when I've had to be around my parents due to being severely triggered by them. Previously I had been resorting to drinking to cope when around them, which of course had its own problems, as I would drop my filters, say something reactive and then be 'punished' for speaking up.

My parents both said anti-depressants were bad and dangerous. This from a woman who tormented at least four of her offspring (except my gcBro) with her extreme control freakery to the point of depression, along with her husband (who frequently used to drive off threatening suicide) while she continued to maintain her sainted position in our local community through her endless good deeds and religious works. My father, meanwhile, self-medicated to the point of alcoholism with bottles of cheap port hidden throughout their hoard.
So yeah, one person's 'anti-depressant' is another's poison, I guess. (Suffice to say, I hardly drink and am definitely not religious.)

And funnily  enough, once I realized my chronic depression was due to cPTSD, I found that making some much/needed life changes (ie. having virtually no contact with my FOO and their FMs) radically improved my mental health. But now that I see very little of them, they say I'm crazy. Go figure.  :stars:

BettyGray

FogDawg,

I want to clarify my remark:

"Actually, people who reject help are the weak ones."

I never said anything about the type of help. I didn't mention meds or therapy as a clear cut solution for everyone.

I meant those who refuse help of *ANY KIND* because they don't think they need it. They think they are just fine - it's everyone ELSE who needs help, most certainly not them. So they project their dysfunction on others, especially those who help themselves. Or those who don't take the help they need, because of pride. Thy would rather suffer in denial and be
comfortable where they are, no matter how dismal their lives (because of their own choices).

As to medication, OF COURSE it is not for everyone. It is a deeply personal decision, and often made because the suffering is too great without it.

That said, if you have or are taking meds that make you feel like a zombie, then you are on the wrong kind of medication. I took, as prescribed by my well-intentioned psychiatrist, a combo of meds that made me feel like jumping in front of a train. Of course, I had to wean off of those before I tried another combination. I had no guarantee that those meds would work, either. But I trusted my Dr. enough that we would find something that worked. And we did.

I did not feel anything like a zombie. On the contrary, I suddenly (well, after a couple of months when the meds started to work) had more energy because I wasn't extremely deep in depression and giving so much energy to just trading water to get through the day. I felt *normal*. I felt hopeful- I could be rational and not consumed by overwhelming emotions. I, at least, now had a chance at being happy.

So that is the medication side of things. There is a myth out there that meds make you a zombie and diminish all of your emotions. Not necessarily true. Again, we can be prescribed the wrong meds at first, but that should not make us rule out a better fit or think that all meds won't work for us.

As for the therapy side- face it, some therapists are morons, or worse, PDs themselves. Some medical doctors are bad, rude, dismissive or just have no empathy. But that doesn't mean all are. Again, if a therapist is making you feel you are responsible for your problems, RUN! If you can, find another one. There is no guarantee of a perfect match. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.

A good therapist's job is to make you feel safe, bottom line. I am willing to guess that every single member of this forum has trust issues. Those don't solve themselves. They're too deeply engrained. But they must be addressed in order for us to heal. Going through life with the inability to trust a single person is no way to live. But you have to trust yourself, or you will never trust anyone else.

Again, RUN from a bad therapist. Your gut will lead the way.

Being open to help can also mean helping yourself. If you are on this forum, you have already done that - that is something to be proud of. Help can come in various forms- taking care of your physical health, educating yourself (also available on this forum), learning about C-PTSD,  journaling, having a pet, learning to self-soothe, and having just one person you can confide in. Even if that is a total stranger. Sometimes a stranger is the best person to talk to. Even if it is a therapist.

Hey, I get it. I have been on and off of meds for 30 years. In and out of therapy for 30 years. I went off of meds and left therapy, mostly out of lack of  funds. So I did what I could to take control of myself. Diet, exercise, sleep, journaling, keeping busy, educating myself. I really believed that I didn't need any of it - that after 8 years on meds and 16 in therapy that I was "fixed."

My go it alone approach helped ...up to point... until it didn't. Serious personal situations arose that I was not equipped to fight on my own. I tried - for ten years. I got older, hormones shifted, financial crash, FOO situation got worse and worse, DH got ill. Much of it happened at the same time.  I desperately needed help. I had no real support system, as many of you here don't. The right medication and getting myself back in therapy (even though I really couldn't afford it) was the only thing that was going to get me through NC. Once I was stabilized, I could get on with my life.

So the help you accept and take doesn't make you weak, ever. It doesn't have to be meds or therapy. But if you're needlessly suffering, stop burdening yourself and decide where your help will come from.

But ...weak people ( meaning the PDs, not US) never even entertain the idea of help. They stay put in the safety of abusing others - some even get a perverse pleasure from it. Obviously it is they who need serious help. PD behavior is NOT NORMAL. That many of us accepted it as so is a tragedy.

What is "normal" is healthy and loving.

p123

For me depression/anxiety off and on for 20+ years. Loads of different medication, psychiatrists etc. Loads of time off work. NEVER told Dad.

His idea of mental illness is black and white. You're either ok or you're locked in a padded cell mad. There is nothing else. People who say they are depressed need "pull themselves together". Amazing attitude.

Thing is I think he does suffer from anxiety. He had eating problems once - couldnt swallow. Apparently this is a real stress related thing. Wouldnt have it - doctor was wrong it must be his jaw. Made me swear NEVER to tell anyone because it was shameful......

FogDawg

Quote from: StayWithMe on January 27, 2020, 03:00:55 PM
The last therapist I had made the suggestion that someone with whom I had a difficult situation with I should invite to lunch and have a chat. 

The first question to ask is "what should I do if the person in question turns down the offer to meet for lunch/dinner/ coffee/ whatever?  And what reason should I give for meeting up when we were never friends and are having a less than positive experience with that person.

That is brilliant advice :stars: "Uh, yeah, I am calling to see if we can meet up so I can tell you in person exactly why I cannot be around you." ::)

Quote from: Liz1018 on January 28, 2020, 09:26:25 AM
I meant those who refuse help of *ANY KIND* because they don't think they need it. They think they are just fine - it's everyone ELSE who needs help, most certainly not them. So they project their dysfunction on others, especially those who help themselves. Or those who don't take the help they need, because of pride. Thy would rather suffer in denial and be comfortable where they are, no matter how dismal their lives (because of their own choices).

But ...weak people ( meaning the PDs, not US) never even entertain the idea of help. They stay put in the safety of abusing others - some even get a perverse pleasure from it. Obviously it is they who need serious help. PD behavior is NOT NORMAL. That many of us accepted it as so is a tragedy.

Sorry for taking it wrong before. I most definitely agree. Any halfway sane person would seek help of some sort and make the effort to change in order to repair a damaged relationship instead of continuing down the current path and very likely never seeing their child again, but like you said, their behavior is not normal. Many of us had nothing to base it on years ago, only our own perspective of family life and a willingness to take the 'unconditional love' that they are supposed to offer as fact because it is spouted so much, making the chaos seem no big deal or that we somehow deserved the mistreatment. It really is sad.

Rize

Firstly, it's great you're starting to look after yourself!

Secondly, pfft, i can relate.

Sweetbriar

A person who says "only weak people need anti-depressents" is just saying, "you are weak." It's a cruel, cruel comment to make when someone is already feeling down and out. I am relieved that you did not take that on. And I am so sorry she said that to you. I believe people who take care of their mental health are brave and strong.

It's strange to me that there is still a culture of shame around depression with the older generation. They'd rather people suffer in silence than get better. That is hurtful and only makes depression worse.

Another point I want to make is, there was a meme going around a few years ago, that said something to the effect, "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by jerks". I have given this serious thought over the years, because I am always happier when I remove the jerks from my life.

I had serious issues with depression as a teen but when I moved out of my FOO, it lessened and I felt joy for the first time in my life. That said, I do understand that I've been dealing with C-PTSD from the effects of growing up in a toxic childhood home, and if anti-depressents relieve this, I use them with no shame at all.

FogDawg

Quote from: Sweetbriar on February 12, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Another point I want to make is, there was a meme going around a few years ago, that said something to the effect, "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by jerks". I have given this serious thought over the years, because I am always happier when I remove the jerks from my life.

I like that saying. Removing jerks from one's life is beneficial either way.