Not sure if anything should be done

Started by athene1399, January 10, 2020, 11:23:37 AM

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athene1399

SO and SD have been no contact with BM. SO started the NC end of Nov, SD started right around Christmas. SD didn't block BM, but just hasn't been responding. SD completely moved out of BM's a few weeks ago and has no plans to return. She's planning on staying where she is over the summer as well (she dorms over the semester).

We let SD know start of December that she has to get herself signed up with Medicaid through the state. We sent her helpful links. She finally decided to set up an appointment with someone who can help her fill out the paperwork and the appointment is next week. BM texted SD an acceptance letter addressed to SD saying "welcome to Medicaid..." So BM pretended to be SD and signed her up. I guess it's not the worst thing she could have done with SD's information, but still. She overstepped her boundaries, didn't let SD work on being an independent adult and learning this for herself, and did something I'm pretty sure is illegal.

For now, we told SD to still go to the appointment next week, explain the situation, and at the very least update her address or any other information that may be incorrect.

I'm not sure if we should break the NC to say something to BM like, "I know you were trying to be helpful, but SD needs to learn how to do this. We've been on her about getting it set up and she had an appointment to meet with someone over this. Please don't do this again without checking in with SD or us." Or should we just leave it alone?

I don't think BM had malicious intent, even though it's a bit manipulative. I would think she was trying to prove to SD that she can take care of her. Probably a bit of "I'm using MY address becasue I know you will miss me and want to move back..." but obviously I'm not in her head and don't know.

But then SO and I are like, what if BM's using SD's info to setup credit cards for herself? But then SO said that SD has one of those credit checking apps, so should notice that pretty quickly. But it still gets me paranoid about it. But I've been working on grounding myself when the anxiety starts spinning out of control with all these terrible scenarios that probably won't even happen.

Penny Lane

Oh wow. I think that's really bad. BM should NOT be breaking into SD's accounts - and that's what she did here.

I have a couple thoughts:
SD should absolutely go to the meeting, explain the situation and not only correct her her information but also make sure her mom can't log in as her anymore. Furthermore, she should take stock of all her other important accounts (bank, phone, email, etc), and at the very least change all her passwords just to be safe. I would maybe even put an additional layer of security like two factor verification for the email and an additional password for the bank. I think it's great that SD has credit monitoring but if she doesn't need to get a credit card or anything like that soon, you might even see if she wants to put a lock on her credit account, just for a year or two. The mom has already used SD's personal information once. If she has access to, say, her bank account, and she needs money, do we really think that she won't steal from her own daughter?

You know how they say that breaking up is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship? Same principle applies here. I don't think that SD is in physical danger, but I do think BM is highly likely to escalate the harassment to get SD to pay attention to her. It is going to get worse before it gets better.

Don't break NC - that's what she wants. Best course of action is to help SD tighten up security so that BM can't do this again.

More broadly, I have an observation about your anxiety and I'm not sure it's helpful at this point but maybe it'll help you figure out where to go in your healing. You're trying to not get into an anxiety spiral, which is good. Actually it's great! But I think lately you're taking it in the other direction, where you're questioning if these things are actually a big deal or not. Basically when you're working through anxiety you need to recalibrate your gut instinct for what is a problem and what isn't, and that's where you're at right now. But the thing is that a lot of the things BM does really are a big, huge deal.

All of this is normal and it's probably just a process to work through. And really, dealing with divorce situations and particularly contentious ones, it's really easy to lose sight of what's important and what isn't. Even without a previous anxiety issue. Maybe it would help to come up with some questions to ask yourself to figure out how serious an issue is? Like, how likely is BM to do the thing I'm worried about? Has she done something like this before? What would be the consequences if she does do it? Is there anything I can do to prevent it? Those might lead you to figure out how big the problem actually is and what you can or should do about it.

And really, the goal isn't to not prepare yourself for possible bad behavior from BM, but rather to not get into an anxiety spiral and become paralyzed with fear over it. So keep that in mind - sometimes that anxiety can be calmed by focusing it on a productive course of action.

Maybe all that helps, I hope it does. Like I said you're at a very normal stage of healing but I'm sure it's hard to be doubting your instinct all the time while at the same time dealing with a huge somewhat crisis.

D.Dan

#2
I'm really wary about the identity theft within immediate foo. My uPD relatives think it's no big deal. They usually open up utilities, phone, internet and cable in other foo's names.

My uPDmom pretended to be my sis and was calling around to lawyers about separating from her then SO while my sis was just thinking about it.

My uPDbro1 tried to use bro2's ID to get a job. He also tried to get a new cell phone plan in my name and paid for on my card.

uPDmom and uPDbro1 randomly use the rest of us as fake landlords or as fake tenants to get rent money from social assistance or CRA. They try to pretend me or my sis co-sign for stuff.

Both have tried to get debts transferred to the rest of us, and tried getting access to different personal accounts by pretending they forgot our password/login info.

Seriously, I have no idea what else can be done with someone else's ID but I do know it's a lot more than just credit cards or loans. I password lock and person lock (people that have access) my accounts. All my accounts. I've even tried to eliminate mail so nobody can get ahold of info.

athene1399

QuoteThey try to pretend me or my sis co-sign for stuff.
this is actually what I am afraid of D Dan. Plus BM thinks SD needs a car and wants to buy her one. So I'm afraid she'll open a loan in her name and buy her a car she can't afford. Then what? Or use her as a co-signer the next time she needs something and cant' afford it. BM knows how to run scams and her having access to this information is really scary to me and SO.

QuoteSD should absolutely go to the meeting... and not only correct her her information but also make sure her mom can't log in as her anymore.
I did tell SD she should make sure there isn't a proxy signed saying her mom can access her info. Maybe she can go a step further and see what she can do to make sure her mom can't use her information for anything else. I will also suggest she change her passwords. That is a good idea.

The anxiety issue is multi-fauceted (aren't they all lol). I'm glad you think I am making progress though. :) Part of the problem is my FOO always yelled at me when I was anxious, so I never feel like it is justified, even when it is. The other part is my brain is very all or nothing. Either I am so overwhelmed with emotions I feel my brain will just overload or I feel nothing. Usually when I get overwhelmed, I go back to nothing with also isn't good. But I am learning mindfulness helps and grounding helps. part of the problem with this is I know what BM is capable of. I could see her thinking it's ok to do what she is doing and use SD's info to help herself out and see nothing wrong with it. Like she saw nothing wrong with this. So I'm freaking out. lol on the inside at least and to you guys. I was spurting off scenarios and SO was like, "take a breath. I'm afraid of that too, but let's not get carried away." Kind of like let's worry on what's going on now and not what could be going on later.  But I like your idea of working on prevention.

I just don't know how to prevent it when BM has SD's social security number memorized. But changing the passwords and talking to the navigator about limiting BM's access is a good start. I think the two step verification could work too. We had to download a two step verification app to access our university accounts (SD and I are at the same university), maybe I suggest she use the app for other things as well.

Thank you guys for the quick feedback. :)

Stepping lightly

Hi Athene,

I agree with PL, don't break NC.  If you think through the outcomes, that is not going to make any positive difference if you reach out to her, likely it will do the opposite.  IMO, SD is at an age where the only reason to break NC is if someone is dying or could be harmed.  She's looking for attention, and if her actions get her that attention, she will continue them. 

SD is also currently NC, and I agree with her continuing with the meeting and letting them know exactly what happened and confirming all of her current information.   If BM does anything else regarding SDs accounts/ID, SD should report it to protect herself.  It's harsh, but SD is going to have to push back hard at some point.  BM will get her foot in the door, and unless SD slams it, the behavior will continue.

I think taking the stance of staying NC will help with anxiety as well.  It helps to know that at no point do you need to communicate with BM, and you can limit the impact she has on your daily life.  It takes time to truly get used to that mindset- "not my circus", and it does feel terrible when people you love are involved.  But nothing you or SO do will improve the situation with BM, SD solely wields that power now.  Your job- and only job (IMO) is to give SD the support and guidance she wants/needs.  Help her navigate the issues she encounters, but by all means- stay OUT of the middle of it. 

In case I didn't stress this enough- BM is NOT your problem.  SO is not married to BM, you have no obligation to BM.  Your interactions will not improve her behavior, especially not in the long term. 

D.Dan

Quote from: athene1399 on January 10, 2020, 12:59:04 PM
I just don't know how to prevent it when BM has SD's social security number memorized.

I don't know about the US but here in Canada, you can change your SIN number (canadian social security number) if you think it's been stolen. There's a fee but it'd be a new one. Is that a possibility?

athene1399

D. Dan- I can definitely look into it. That way I will know if it is an option or not. Thank you for the suggestion.

SL- I'm actually doing good staying out of the middle (i think). I don't know how SD feels about it so will ask. She was out with friends when she got the text from BM. So we didn't want to take away from what SD was doing (as we try not to let BM ruin our plans with her nonsense). If she's as upset about it as we are, I will suggest she do more. If not, I'll keep it on the back burner for it something else happens and she needs advice.

SD asked SO to come to the medicaid appointment, so maybe he can voice his concerns as well. maybe the navigator will have advice as well.

Penny Lane

#7
Ok, knowing your concern about the car loan, I would amend my advice to, I think SD should definitely put some sort of hold on her credit. If you freeze it, no one can take out any loan under your name, I think. The downside of that is that if you want to get a credit card or rent an apartment, it makes it difficult or impossible. I think there's another option to put a hold on it, which is somewhere between credit monitoring and a total freeze. You might look into her options on that front. That would probably take care of a lot of the SSN issues even if you can't get the number changed, although it probably wouldn't have prevented the Medicaid issue.

I agree to stay out of the middle of it and I'm glad that's your goal. However, I also desperately want your SD to understand how big of a deal this is and how big of a violation this is on her mom's part. Maybe there's nothing you personally can do about that because it's really not your place. As a stepmom I try to never have any kind of conversation with the kids along those lines. Maybe a solution is fro your SO to kind of gently suggest that he HOPES BM wouldn't do anything bad with SD's information but it's best to lock it down just to be safe? I don't think you and SO want to back so far out of the middle that you can see potential pitfalls for SD and you're not warning her about it, you know? But as always tread lightly is probably the best approach.

I also second what SL says about, BM is not your problem. I mean she is in the sense of she's treating people you love badly. But you have no obligation to her and you are not responsible for fixing this. If it keeps going south, it's not on you to solve. Especially this:

Quote from: Stepping lightly on January 10, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
Your interactions will not improve her behavior, especially not in the long term. 

Associate of Daniel

I have not read all of the reply posts but going by the op posts, I strongly agree that nc should not be broken, that SD tries to find ways around BM's behaviour (eg: tell Medicaid she didn't sign up) and that she change as many security details as possible (passwords, social security number - but maybe even bank accounts, phone numbers and email addresses).

And don't tell BM.

Perhaps Social Security and Medicaid etc can put notes on her files to say that there is a possibility of infiltration by BM?

This is a little bit triggering for me as I have had to /do deal with similar (but not nearly as bad) from my ds's uNPD smum.  He's only 13. I hate to think what invasions of his privacy she'll pull when he's older.

AOD

athene1399

Another thing occurred to me. I'm thinking maybe BM did this so that when the insurance cards arrive at her address, SD will have to see her to get the insurance cards. I'm going to ask is they can be reissued to her current address.

SO has stayed up on the NC. SD is talking to BM a bit via text, but says she doesn't want to see her at this point. I've been supporting whatever her decision is as she works through this.

Since SD asked SO to go to the meeting today, he asked me to come. I've made a list of some things I want to check off as SD corrects/asks them and then I can ask at the end if they weren't addressed. I kind of want SD to try to figure it out the best she can so we aren't doing everything for her. I have on my list to ask how to re-up the insurance when it runs out, just so SD will know in advance what she is responsible for and when. And my main concern is making sure BM didn't file a health care proxy as SD saying BM can view/access her medical info.

I also wasn't going to come out and directly say what a big deal is, but am hoping the navigator says something that makes it sound like this wasn't okay. Like we are going to explain BM did this without asking and put incorrect information down. But I guess if the navigator brushes it off, we will have a discussion on boundaries. Should I keep is vague? Or come out and say "BM should not have done this"?

I will look into credit freeing options and see how that works. Thank you for the suggestion!

Penny Lane

Are you asking if you should keep it vague to SD or to come right out and say it? Or in front of the navigator?

athene1399

I'm wondering if we should keep it vague to SD. I'm afraid if we appear too upset over it, she may not tell us the next time something happens to "protect us".

But that may be a moot point anyway. Things are more complicated then we expected. Couldn't set up the Medicaid since SD has this insurance through her mom's Medicaid plan ( I didn't think that was an option at her age). The insurance is in SD's name, but when she called to cancel so she can get Medicaid (the one BM set her up with has a premium for some reason), they said only BM can cancel her plan. So she needs BM's permission. SD is going to try to talk to her about this. She did say she really wants to be on her own plan so she can make sure it doesn't lapse (because BM has lapsed it every time she had to re-up it in the past on top of forgetting to pay premiums). She asked what happens if BM says no. SO told her he can check with his L to see what to do. I would think we have enough evidence to show all the problems we have had since BM took charge of the insurance. Plus she kicked SD out, so I would think she cannot be in charge of the insurance after that. But who knows. Guess we shall see.

The other thing that we have to do is the navigator said that BM can't claim SD on her taxes if SD does Medicaid alone. SD didn't want to talk to BM about this. Asked SO to. But she also said something like "How the heck can she claim me when I don't live there." So I think SD is aggravated by the whole situation. So she probably already can see it's a big deal just because of how difficult it has been for us to try to do anything to help her out. But anyway, if BM does claim SD on her taxes I would think if the government questions that, then BM has to prove that SD is staying there (which she can't). So I would think BM would get in trouble and not SD. Because let's face it, BM is not not going to claim SD because we ask her to.

So SO and I are going to figure out how to say something about the taxes. But I'm thinking once the nastiness starts we'll just go back to silence. That way we can at least show we tried to talk to BM about it for SD. We were going to discuss with SD how to talk to BM about letting her be on her own Medicaid. I'm sure that will go well, too.  :roll: But worst case scenario, if we have to go to court, I have everything already organized for the insurance issues. That issue has it's own folder.  :cool2:

Stepping lightly

Hi Athene,

You guys are really, really nice.  I see BM's taxes as....BM's problem.  I don't think her  listing SD as a dependent would have any impact on SD.  I think if SD filed taxes and it was obvious she is indeed not a dependent, the IRS would ding BM.  I could be wrong, but it might be worth a quick call to the IRS to find out and ease everyone's minds?

athene1399

SO contacted the tax lady. She made it sound first come first serve, and then if BM files after she would have to prove SD is still there. And things are different with the new tax changes as well. But maybe we can talk to the L and see if she should legally get emancipated so she can claim herself and have no issues with the Medicaid. I'm not sure. We'll figure it out. :) I'm actually not too worried right now. And the three of us are all figuring it out together, so I think that makes the situation not feel so bad. It's just trying to navigate all these things I didn't know would be in the way.


Stepping lightly

Glad the three of you are working together and SD is getting the support she needs!

We had issues with taxes a few years ago, DH and BM used to alternate years claiming the kids and we were concerned she would just always claim them.  What we learned was the same as your SO, first come first serve, they could care less what is in a CO.

At 18 emancipation seems reasonable.

NumbLotus

Just a castaway, an island lost at sea
Another lonely day, noone here but me
More loneliness than any man could bear

Penny Lane

Not in all areas. Another one I can think of off the top of my head is school aid. You can't get need based scholarships to college unless your parents fill out a FAFSA form and their incomes meet the threshold. If they refuse you're out of luck unless you can prove that you don't rely on them for anything. I forget if they call it emancipation or not but the principle is similar. I think that ends at some ridiculously high age, like 26.

athene1399

It's been a couple years since we asked the L about emancipation, but I think he said they are a dependent until 21 in our state. But i think before that, if she lives away from parents than she can be considered emancipated. But I don't know if you have to file anything to officially do that. And if she moves back home before 21, she can become un-emancipated I think. And I would have to see how that affects FASFA because SO does put his information on the form for SD. And he took out a small loan to help her out too. We were paying out of pocket during the first semester, and I told him I couldn't pitch in after the first semester so he looked into parent loans. Either that complicates things or it doesn't matter. i really have no idea.

At any rate, the medical is just about set up for SD to be in charge of herself. She asked BM to remove her from the state marketplace insurance and then called them to stop it at the end of the month. Then called the navigator to push her Medicaid application through again. So hopefully it will go through this time.

The only slight hiccup is BM just got a temp position where she can get insurance where she works (until the brief contract is over. We went back to NC so didn't ask how long she's there for), so I hope she doesn't just add SD to the insurance. But I also know I should start focusing on what IS happening and not what MIGHT happen.

And with the taxes, SL I get what you mean now about we were being too nice telling BM. We probably shouldn't' have said anything as BM shouldn't be claiming her in the first place, so we shouldn't have to say anything. We didn't end up telling her SD wants to claim herself, but just asked if she planned on claiming her then left it alone. SD was actually really mad that BM said she was claiming her because of how much SO and I paid towards her tuition and other things (I think when SD asked SO if she can claim herself, she thought he was the one claiming her). SO basically told her that's our concern and not hers. Like SD shouldn't feel bad for BM doing this all these years becasue SO didn't want to argue so just let it be. it was his choice and he's okay with it. But that we will help her to claim herself going forward if that's what she wants.

Associate of Daniel

Athene, despite the difficulties you and SD are currently facing I'm so glad for you all that she is now seeing the reality of the situation and of her BM.

I can only pray that my ds13 sees the light soon, particularly about his uNPD smum.  I can't wait for that day but can see no hope of it as yet.

AOD

Penny Lane

I agree! I remember, it was not much more than a year ago if I recall right, that SD wasn't clipping her toenails on her own and was basically just parroting everything BM says. She's made an astounding turnaround and I am so impressed at these boundaries she's enforcing. And all the ways that she's taking care of stuff - doing your own health insurance is hard even for some adults!

This really gives me hope and also inspires me to remember that our ultimate goals are long term - that my stepkids grow up to have the exact life skills that your SD does. I hope you are proud of her and of your and SO's efforts to get her to this point!

AOD, athene's SD is several years ahead of your DS and my stepkids. We might have to wait until adulthood to see if our efforts paid off. Agonizing, I know.