Deep and meaningful talk with my mother

[Spirit in the sky]

I had no intention of having a deep and meaning talk with my mother but I walked into a massive argument in my parents house this morning. My dad was going on about my mum not caring and just told him the truth. I said she's barely said a civil word to you in 50 years why are you expecting anything different. He actually agreed in shocked silence.

My mother was still fuming and I calmed asked her how she felt. I listened as she moaned and groaned about stuff my father has been doing all his life. Her defensives her up and the emotional barriers firmly in place but I'm learning to witness her behaviour without judgment and it's very revealing. When she was calm I explained that my father is looking for sympathy and compassion, and she replied that we was just weak willed. So I asked if she thought expressing your emotions is a weakness and she said yes. So I told her he just wanted to feel loved, and she said that's a lot nonsense. So she said what happens now ?And I said what do you want do happen? And she replied I want your father to change his attitude.

And in that moment everything became crystal clear, I knew nothing would change and they would carry on as usual. I hugged her and said I love you, and she quickly changed the subject. And I felt nothing, not sad or emotional. I felt my wounded inner child growing up and I knew I had finally detached myself from my mother's energy.

I'm going to the hospital with my father tomorrow because I realise he's been as much a victim as I have, only he chooses to stay there. I believe he does need loving kindness and I don't think he's weak. I think he's afraid and although I can't take that away I can be supportive.

[Psuedonym]

Hey Spirit in the sky,

You can be supportive but you don't have to take on the role of being your mother's therapist and that's what you're doing here. It's not your job to the be the objective, unemotional sounding board for all her many grievances and offer her unconditional validation. It's not your job to negotiate fights between your parents.

Your dad is dying, and that's very sad. By stuffing dow your own emotions and trying to play peacemaker and therapist to everybody else, you'll eventually crash. I know this from personal experience with a very similar situation and listening to my mother's endless garbage. it's easy to fool yourself into thinking that you can cope with everybody else's dysfunction and not be deeply effected by it, but it's not true.

Please try to start putting yourself and your needs first.

[Leonor]

Hi Spirit,

I had a similar experience during the first (and last) conversation I had with my mom. We were in a therapy session with our own therapists, and I was able to express to her what I was feeling without breaking down, and she was unable to move. I felt so sorry for her in that moment, because I felt like in that moment I had truly grown up, and I saw that she never had.

That's not really a deep or meaningful conversation, though ... Your mom seems pretty invested in not going anywhere deep or meaningful- she isn't able to do so, and thinks that the very natural yearning for human connection is weak and despicable.

That's not today your experience in the conversation wasn't meaningful. It was so much more, I think: it's a moment of clarity. It's the realization that you did survive, and have made so much progress in healing, and can see your once all-powerful parents as troubled old people, and that means you are capable of breaking the cycle. It's powerful, and I hope that your clarity, maturity and compassion towards your parents extends to you, too. The clarity that your parents are incapable of love is painful, too.

I also very gently suggest that you seek support for yourself during your father's illness. No, he doesn't have a great marriage, but it is his marriage, and your mom is his wife. They have a relationship that began long before you, and their connection, no matter how bizarre or abusive, is beyond your influence. He may be ill now, but he hasn't always been, and he was not a victim when he was younger and more vigorous and consistently chose his adult wife over his little girl.

You can sympathize, you can visit, you can chat, but you can't step in for your mom to act as a caretaking, protective partner to your dad in his illness. You can't save them from each other, and the truth is they don't want to be saved. They float each other's boat, what can we say? From your post, it kinda sounds like they are triangulating with you, communicating with one another through you, than actually opening up to you, or listening to you.

But that's ok. It's ok to want to understand what their deal is, it's ok to learn from hearing what they say. It's ok to want to connect with your mom and it's ok to want to take care of your dad, and it's ok to see how impossible that is, for at least your mom. You are a kind, empathetic and insightful person, and they are lucky to have you in their lives.

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Lenor,

I know what you mean about deep and meaningful but it did help me see her for what she is. It was peeling away layers to see if there was any real emotion buried deep and their wasn't. So now I understand she's just not capable of empathy, so I can accept that, put my own boundaries in place and deal with her on a very shallow level of communication. Really should have send my mother isn't of a deep and meaningful talk but that spoke volumes to me.

Yes, I need to not go from trying to save her to trying to save my dad from her. He's made his own bad choices and truthfully if he wasn't ill he wouldn't have any time for me. When I see him now old and in pain I forget how difficult my childhood was when he choose not to protect me from my mother. When he choose to drink and party and so away on holiday with his friends and leave me with my unstable mother. He hasn't changed he's just looking for a new source of supply.

I'm taking him to the hospital because he needs stronger pain medication and hopefully when he gets that he'll calm down a bit. I check in on them after work and after 5pm I'm programming myself to switch off until the next day. Thankfully I sleep really well so I feel rested and recharged in the morning.

I'm also starting a new self care program for myself, I'm returning to yoga class and I'm starting my training as a Reiki therapist this month. Also booked myself into some workshops to learn how to clear and balance my energy. Walking also really helps clear my head, I'm off work tomorrow so planning a day out with hubby.

I'm feeling very positive about the progress I'm making, I'm seeing it all as a challenge and the opportunity to learn and grow as a person. I really appreciate your comments.

Hi Spirit,

I had a similar experience during the first (and last) conversation I had with my mom. We were in a therapy session with our own therapists, and I was able to express to her what I was feeling without breaking down, and she was unable to move. I felt so sorry for her in that moment, because I felt like in that moment I had truly grown up, and I saw that she never had.

That's not really a deep or meaningful conversation, though ... Your mom seems pretty invested in not going anywhere deep or meaningful- she isn't able to do so, and thinks that the very natural yearning for human connection is weak and despicable.

That's not today your experience in the conversation wasn't meaningful. It was so much more, I think: it's a moment of clarity. It's the realization that you did survive, and have made so much progress in healing, and can see your once all-powerful parents as troubled old people, and that means you are capable of breaking the cycle. It's powerful, and I hope that your clarity, maturity and compassion towards your parents extends to you, too. The clarity that your parents are incapable of love is painful, too.

I also very gently suggest that you seek support for yourself during your father's illness. No, he doesn't have a great marriage, but it is his marriage, and your mom is his wife. They have a relationship that began long before you, and their connection, no matter how bizarre or abusive, is beyond your influence. He may be ill now, but he hasn't always been, and he was not a victim when he was younger and more vigorous and consistently chose his adult wife over his little girl.

You can sympathize, you can visit, you can chat, but you can't step in for your mom to act as a caretaking, protective partner to your dad in his illness. You can't save them from each other, and the truth is they don't want to be saved. They float each other's boat, what can we say? From your post, it kinda sounds like they are triangulating with you, communicating with one another through you, than actually opening up to you, or listening to you.

But that's ok. It's ok to want to understand what their deal is, it's ok to learn from hearing what they say. It's ok to want to connect with your mom and it's ok to want to take care of your dad, and it's ok to see how impossible that is, for at least your mom. You are a kind, empathetic and insightful person, and they are lucky to have you in their lives.

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Psuedonym,

Really the purpose of my talk with my mother wasn't to help her, but to help me understand her more clearly. I need to peel away the levels and see if there was any real emotion and there wasn't. So now I know there is no point doing deep and meaningful, she's not capable. I will only communicate now on a very grey rock level.

I admit I'm falling for my dad's poor me act a bit, so I need to remind myself he chose her and he's not willing to help himself so I need to detach there too. Put strong boundaries in place and not supply him with energy. Basic human compassion but not rescuing.

I know I have been conditioned by their dysfunction and I've been making progress. I also noticed how I attached energy vampires with my mil and boss and it took me a while to connect it all back to my childhood trauma.

Thankfully I noticed I'm getting triggered less and less and it doesn't take me as long to recover from contact with them. Sometimes I imagine myself in a space suit when I visit them so they can't drain my energy 

Hey Spirit in the sky,

You can be supportive but you don't have to take on the role of being your mother's therapist and that's what you're doing here. It's not your job to the be the objective, unemotional sounding board for all her many grievances and offer her unconditional validation. It's not your job to negotiate fights between your parents.

Your dad is dying, and that's very sad. By stuffing dow your own emotions and trying to play peacemaker and therapist to everybody else, you'll eventually crash. I know this from personal experience with a very similar situation and listening to my mother's endless garbage. it's easy to fool yourself into thinking that you can cope with everybody else's dysfunction and not be deeply effected by it, but it's not true.

Please try to start putting yourself and your needs first.

[Adrianna]

I think once you finally realize the pd person isn't capable of empathy it's a game changer. The cognitive dissonance ends. Thinking "surely this person has feelings of compassion in there somewhere"  while their actions tell a different story is the struggle. You can't reconcile how you want the person to be with with who they really are. Once you see no, this person lacks empathy, you let go of any expectations of being treated like a human being by this person. They just aren't capable of it.

[Psuedonym]

It sounds like you are making great progress Spirit in the Sky and it's really good to hear that you are investing in your own mental health and overall wellbeing. I have been through the situation of having my enF dying and dealing with PD m and its just exhausting. Please continue to take care of yourself!

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Psuedonym,

Strange thing is it's what's my mum didn't say that really spoke volumes. I see the survival techniques she has used in her life and I also seen how she can express her anger and that's something I have never been able to do.

I never get angry or lose my temper, both my parents have very bad tempers and shout and scream and maybe they get it out. With me I internalise everything, it gets buried and then it gets pushed so deep I forget it's there but it still eats away inside. I think because they have very big, loud, shouty personalities they just over power me and always have. So I never get heard, apart from the fact they wouldn't listen anyway.

So it's up to me to understand actions speak louder than words. I won't be available for my dad's next appointment. I won't have time to listen to my mum's complaints (she does nothing to help herself) because I have somewhere else to be. I need to start make more of an effort to detach and spend more time on energy on myself.

It sounds like you are making great progress Spirit in the Sky and it's really good to hear that you are investing in your own mental health and overall wellbeing. I have been through the situation of having my enF dying and dealing with PD m and its just exhausting. Please continue to take care of yourself!

[Psuedonym]

Hi Spirit in the sky,

I read your other post about the trip to the hospital with your dad and it raised my anxiety level just reading it. Ugh. I think we all suffer from a bunch of the same problems, which makes sense; I mean basically you've been brainwashed your whole life. It's like growing up in cult.

A person from a non-pd background would experience that kind of abuse you described exactly once: and then they would say '$#@% off. If you can't treat me with respect I'm done' and they would not feel bad about it. They would not think it was their fault or second guess themselves and they sure wouldn't feel reluctant to express their anger. But of course in PD land everything's backwards.

Have you listened to Les Carter at all? I find him very supportive and calming. In this video he talks, among other things, about how fear of confrontation is used by PDs against us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sioI6JDWmmk

[Spirit in the sky]

Psuedonym,

Thank you for the video link. It really resonated with my and I can see how my mum has fallen into these traps with my dad. Now she is taking a step back he's looking for a new supply and I have all the vulnerabilities Les mentioned.

I'm noticed my mum always tries to call my dad out on his behaviour and I've said many times there's no point. I have no intention of giving the satisfaction of knowing he's made me feel emotionally unstable. I'm limiting my contact and being very unhelpful and dismissive when I do need to interact. It's not easy because it goes against my nature but I'm learning I need to grow a hard shell to protect myself.

Hi Spirit in the sky,

I read your other post about the trip to the hospital with your dad and it raised my anxiety level just reading it. Ugh. I think we all suffer from a bunch of the same problems, which makes sense; I mean basically you've been brainwashed your whole life. It's like growing up in cult.

A person from a non-pd background would experience that kind of abuse you described exactly once: and then they would say '$#@% off. If you can't treat me with respect I'm done' and they would not feel bad about it. They would not think it was their fault or second guess themselves and they sure wouldn't feel reluctant to express their anger. But of course in PD land everything's backwards.

Have you listened to Les Carter at all? I find him very supportive and calming. In this video he talks, among other things, about how fear of confrontation is used by PDs against us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sioI6JDWmmk