Refusing certified mail

Sidney37 · January 12, 2020, 10:22:58 AM

Has anyone ever refused a certified letter from your PD when you went NC? The last phone conversation I had with my enF months ago, he told me that PDm was insisting if I didn't "resolve this" (sweep it all under the rug, forgive and forget, go back to normal) by January that she was going to "make him" send me a letter demanding back a gift of money that she insisted I take 10 years ago. I explained that she demands this gift back every time she gets mad at me or DH. I've tried to give it back several times, but she refuses to take it.

I didn't tell him, but I know now this is all PD control. I was in the FOG when i took it. She gave this "gift" to control me, but said at the time it was a small inheritance because she was afraid she'd have nothing left to give years later when she died. She went all waify insisting that she just knew that she or my father would end up in nursing care and the home would "take all" of her money. She just wanted me to have something. I now see it was because she knew my FIL had recently received an inheritance and he would likely leave us one at some point, too. She couldn't compete with him and she didn't like it.

I gave a gut feeling that I will receive a "certified" letter that I have to sign for telling me that she wants her money back. I'm tempted to refuse to sign for it. DH is sort of a rule follower and insists we sign and send her a check for the money. I feel like that's just reinforcing her.

appaloosa · January 12, 2020, 11:40:50 AM

I'd refuse the letter. And I certainly would NOT return any money to her. A gift is a gift. Tough luck for her.

FogDawg · January 12, 2020, 12:39:16 PM

When I was in limited contact with my father, he stopped by my house, unannounced, and handed me a check, then he proceeded to belittle me about circumstances beyond my control. It was not done out of the goodness of his heart and this was not a gift; I looked at the check and saw that 'LOAN' was written in the memo line, in spite of the fact that I never even asked for the money. Not wanting to wind up on the street, I cashed the check (if there would have been any other way of making ends meet, I would have given it back to him right then and there). There are always strings attached, something that I have mentioned to him repeatedly. After I went no contact (for the second time), he sent another, smaller check, with a guilt-tripping note included, which I was adamant about not cashing. Suffering in order to receive 'help' is not a worthy trade-off.

I agree with refusing the certified letter. You have tried to repay what was 'given' to you, more than once, and are under no obligation to make another attempt to. Your father's demands of relenting and getting back in touch with the two of them are not worth your health. If your husband cannot understand and believes that it must be repaid, tell him to write out and send the check himself, along with a note stating that neither of you have any more obligations to them.

JustKat · January 12, 2020, 05:19:14 PM

This is a good question because I anticipate eventually receiving one myself. In the last few years they've sent me several copies of their will to rub in my face, but never sent them certified so they have no proof of receipt. I imagine they'll eventually get wise to that and start asking for signature confirmation.

From what I understand there are two things you can do.
1. Refuse to sign. Unfortunately, that probably results in the letter being returned as "refused," which will make them even more angry/determined.
2. If you aren't home or don't answer the door, they will make three attempts to deliver it. After that, you get a pick-up slip and have to go pick it up yourself at the post office. I don't know how much time they allow for you to pick it up or what they do if the recipient never comes for it. It may sit for years in a dead letter bin, or more likely, gets returned as "undeliverable."

If you're home when the mail arrives and have a good relationship with your regular carrier, I'd just tell him you're being stalked and that you won't sign. That's what I plan on doing, anyway, when it finally happens to me (which, ugh, it will).

TwentyTwenty · January 12, 2020, 08:01:56 PM

Sorry you are going through this.

I will 100% refuse to sign for any of their letters if they come, if they need anything from me it must be done through the courts.

Starboard Song · January 17, 2020, 07:53:37 AM

When regular mail is sent to us, we take it from the mailbox to the trashcan. I never mark anything return to sender because that is interactive, and NC is about not interacting. My north star is to always take the route that is (1) less hostile, and (2) less interactive.

Certified mail puts you right to a test on that one. But they are not allowed to conscript me to their wishes. So I'd not ever sign for anything. If I signed for it, I believe I'd need to read it, which I wouldn't do.

BettyGray · January 21, 2020, 09:17:08 AM

I have refused certified letters/packages. I have given deliveries right back to the delivery person. I have thrown countless unopened letters in the trash. Ripped up checks or never cashed them. They can get sneaky - sending gifts from companies so their address or handwriting doesn't show on the label. In those instances I have given the contents to charity.

Rejecting everything is your prerogative.

JustKat · January 21, 2020, 10:14:16 AM

Quote from: Liz1018 on January 21, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
I have refused certified letters/packages. I have given deliveries right back to the delivery person. I have thrown countless unopened letters in the trash. Ripped up checks or never cashed them.

I'm wondering what people tell the mail carrier when refusing mail. Do you need to give a reason, or can you simply say "I refuse to sign that."

And yes, they can get sneaky. When my enFather started sending copies of his will after disinheriting me, he had the lawyer mail them from their office. Fortunately, they sent it without a signature required, but I now know to be careful in the future. I've also ripped up many checks that were sent. In my case it was an attempt to verify my address, and cashing the checks would have confirmed receipt. So in the trash they went.

M0009803 · January 21, 2020, 12:50:06 PM

Quote from: Sidney37 on January 12, 2020, 10:22:58 AM
Has anyone ever refused a certified letter from your PD when you went NC? The last phone conversation I had with my enF months ago, he told me that PDm was insisting if I didn't "resolve this" (sweep it all under the rug, forgive and forget, go back to normal) by January that she was going to "make him" send me a letter demanding back a gift of money that she insisted I take 10 years ago. I explained that she demands this gift back every time she gets mad at me or DH. I've tried to give it back several times, but she refuses to take it.

I didn't tell him, but I know now this is all PD control. I was in the FOG when i took it. She gave this "gift" to control me, but said at the time it was a small inheritance because she was afraid she'd have nothing left to give years later when she died. She went all waify insisting that she just knew that she or my father would end up in nursing care and the home would "take all" of her money. She just wanted me to have something. I now see it was because she knew my FIL had recently received an inheritance and he would likely leave us one at some point, too. She couldn't compete with him and she didn't like it.

I gave a gut feeling that I will receive a "certified" letter that I have to sign for telling me that she wants her money back. I'm tempted to refuse to sign for it. DH is sort of a rule follower and insists we sign and send her a check for the money. I feel like that's just reinforcing her.

If your mother indicated to you when she gave you that money that it was a "gift", and you kept the proof of this, she has no claim to asking for it back now. That's not how these things work.

It's an obvious manipulative financial ploy, and she has no legs to stand on. Just ignore it.

BettyGray · January 22, 2020, 11:25:33 AM

JustKathy,

They never ask. They just take the package back, no questions asked - at least in my experience.

Sidney- I am sure your DH means well. It is hard for even those who love us and understand our situation to process the correct way to deal with these things. So few people get this - does he understand flying monkeys, hoovering and all of their other dirty tricks? I try thinking of Pd families as a cult. Only those who have escaped a cult can understand how dangerous they can be. Listen to your gut. And always remember- their goal is always to THROW YOU OFF BALANCE. If that is happening, they have won.

Sidney37 · January 24, 2020, 11:20:46 AM

Thanks all. No letter yet. I did get a voicemail from her blocked number... apparently blocking keeps it from ringing, but they can still leave voicemail.

Sort of defeats the purpose...

The voicemail said if I didn't call them to resolve this (rug sweep, me apologize, etc.) they would assume I was never speaking to them again. If that was the case they would be seeing what "plans" they need to make. "Plans" for her is a visit to the attorney to remove me as power of attorney, try to reverse an irrevocable trust, demand money back, remove me as beneficiary on accounts. Honestly I don't even care. I just want the stress and anxiety over dealing with her PD to stop. She did the same several years ago when she gave me the silent treatment and I found this web site. She told me all about her attempts to remove me from everything as punishment. I fell back into the FOG that time.

So the letter will likely arrive after she makes her "plans". It's always transactional. It's always a punishment. I need to stop hoping for the kindness and love they can never provide.

Oregon Trail · January 24, 2020, 03:28:59 PM

Oh jeez, Sidney37, this is almost a carbon copy of what's been happening with my mom—which I guess you already know!

Because she hadn't heard from me, and I couldn't even bother to make a phone call, she assumed that I no longer wanted a relationship with her, and so would have to remove me as Power of Attorney, etc. This time there are no 'gifts' or loans to be demanded back—but *you can bet* this has happened in the past!! It's a sickening power grab. And, same here about her not wanting the 'gift' returned of my own volition; only when she thinks I no longer deserve it. This has been going on forever. When I was a kid, if I pissed her off, she'd demand that I give back new clothes she'd bought me. I've noticed that the PD flare-ups often happen right after any sort of gift or 'generous' gesture.

Anyway, it's eerie how similar this dynamic is. I agree with others that you shouldn't sign for any certified letter. What could possibly in it that you'd want to see? The formality of 'certified mail' is just another power play, trying to intimidate you. And although I've yet to deal with it personally, it occurs to me that my mom loves certified mail, too.

BettyGray · January 25, 2020, 09:12:34 AM

Sidney,

Cruelty is the point. OregonTrail - Asking for gifts back? Is she for real? Jeez-

Notice how one-sided her words are . Victimhood. Not a shred of respect for your decision or point of view.

I have had no communication with my FOO for 4 years. I am sure I was removed from the will. And I could not care less. My freedom and sanity don't have a price. Luckily I never had power of attorney.

Yeah, the voicemail on a blocked number really stinks. The phone manufacturers and companies really need to remedy the situation. Alas, those voicemails were what made me finally change my number. What a great decision. My own power play.

As for the "we will assume you never want to speak to us again,"... that doesn't necessarily mean you will never hear from them again. They won't exactly go quietly. In fact, the more you ignore them, the more they will try sneakier ways of getting through. Maybe you will be lucky and that won't happen. But you already know that with the certified letter, and I am sure it's not the first time they tried to bulldoze your request (spoken or unspoken) for NC.

That last step of giving up hoping for the kindness and love you deserve- that they aren't capable of- is the most painful. A lot of confusing emotions. But it is the only way we can finally cut the leash and move on with our lives.
Grief that they aren't capable and never will be, grief that you spent so much time hoping for an impossibility, grief that you didn't have normal, loving parents, grief that you were more or less forced to make a decision to protect yourself, anger at the continual psychological abuse, anger that you can't trust your own parents, jealousy at people who have had good (or good enough) parents, guilt over making the decision to love yourself and leaving them behind....the list goes on. It is heart-wrenching. But we tried - some of us for decades - to be good daughters and sons, and it didn't matter. Grief over lost time and realizing that goodness will never be reciprocated.

Hugs. This sucks, plain and simple.